Antennae revealed on Squadcast

[ThatGuyWithALongUsername]

It did it better.

Fundamentally I think the criticism comes down to the "soul" of KSP. Is it a semi-serious, light-hearted spaceflight simulator or is a cartooney disaster simulation where the protagonists build spaceships out of junk? I feel like Porkjet's parts, and a lot of the earlier parts (55-gallon drums notwithstanding), follow the former aesthetic while Roverdude's follow the later. Maybe that's just my interpretation. I prefer the clean lines and elegant feeling of the early antennas while the new ones feel and look really clunky, like they're just way too heavy to even attach to my roof for satellite TV. vOv I like the AIES interpretation of that particular antenna. Can't put my finger on it but it doesn't look like it's half-rusty. Spaceship parts are built in a cleanroom.

And because that's a personal preference thing and because everyone is going to have a strong opinion one way or the other, I feel like any criticism of that sort will be ignored. The part is already made, the aesthetic cast, anything else will just be adjustment.

You're not alone in this feeling. I also fear of the possible future clash of these two design approaches.

Well, at the moment it's not just two styles. There's Porkjet's clean style, Roverdude's USI bulky-dirty style and there's Squad's I-don't-know-what-to-do "style" (including spacetech clean NASA pack) which kinda works as an intermediate between former two. After more revamps (which, I hope, are planned), it will eventually converge into just two conflicting styles. It may become nasty at that point, when Squad will finally have to decide which one stays and which one goes.

These statements are true.

...

I honestly hope the Porkjet aesthetic triumphs because I like his work a lot. There should be a poll about this.

[cantab]

Then all the spaceplane parts need to be immediately replaced with ones that look like junk. Assuming this is not going to happen, then most rocket parts need to be cleaned up considerably.

To be a little more specific, I think what is canonical (as far as canon in KSP goes) is that the space program puts together rockets out of whatever components it can get its hands on. From that viewpoint it makes sense that some parts look junky while others look flash and the space program will happily bodge them all together on a single craft. (Though they usually don't look it, a fair few real rockets have been built along the same lines, including the SLS that's basically knocked up out of old Shuttle parts themselves made by different manufacturers and an upper stage nicked off a Delta IV.)

And that's something I think Squad would do well to retain. It's a tricky balance because while there should be a unified "art style", I feel the parts shouldn't all look like they've come out of the same factory or been built to the same standard of quality, because they haven't.

[passinglurker]

Look people even in real life there is an overall inconsistency in style why just compare the glorious macgyver engineering wonder that is mir to the bland and boring space shuttle

It's alright if groups of parts are different styles as long as those groups of parts have different roles IMO.

[regex]

Look people even in real life there is an overall inconsistency in style why just compare the glorious macgyver engineering wonder that is mir to the bland and boring space shuttle

Yes, and both of those things look like they belong in space; highly engineered for mass savings and purposely-constructed for the job. Oh, and they're from two different space programs run by two different cultures.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Finally! A proper DTV antenna!

These statements are true.

...

I honestly hope the Porkjet aesthetic triumphs because I like his work a lot. There should be a poll about this.

Me too!

[Yukon0009]

Look people even in real life there is an overall inconsistency in style why just compare the glorious macgyver engineering wonder that is mir to the bland and boring space shuttle

http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/61526main_image_feature_189_jwfull.jpg

It's alright if groups of parts are different styles as long as those groups of parts have different roles IMO.

To be fair, Mir was in orbit for years before the Shuttle in the pic docked to it, the Shuttle could be repaired after each flight.

Hoever, I do feel that this antenna feels particliarly "Russian", while the other 3 look more "American". Just my two cents, though.

[tater]

To be a little more specific, I think what is canonical (as far as canon in KSP goes) is that the space program puts together rockets out of whatever components it can get its hands on. From that viewpoint it makes sense that some parts look junky while others look flash and the space program will happily bodge them all together on a single craft. (Though they usually don't look it, a fair few real rockets have been built along the same lines, including the SLS that's basically knocked up out of old Shuttle parts themselves made by different manufacturers and an upper stage nicked off a Delta IV.)

And that's something I think Squad would do well to retain. It's a tricky balance because while there should be a unified "art style", I feel the parts shouldn't all look like they've come out of the same factory or been built to the same standard of quality, because they haven't.

I'd not disagree, except that all the spaceplane parts look like they came--brand new---out of the same, futuristic spaceplane factory.

[passinglurker]

Yes, and both of those things look like they belong in space; highly engineered for mass savings and purposely-constructed for the job. Oh, and they're from two different space programs run by two different cultures.

Do I really need to spam pictures of everything put in space to get my point across? This is just the strongest contrast I could find in one photo and you know full well this contrast would be just as strong if that was the russian buran instead of the american shuttle It's not the programs or the cultures that define the styles it's the roles of the craft themselves.

The mir is a payload and so its style is like any orbital payload that lives and dies in orbit that style being exposed and busy looking like the broomstick antenna. meanwhile the shuttle is a lifter so its style is like any lifter that has to spend any time in the atmosphere at all that style being enclosed and simple looking like the stock folding dish.

[cantab]

Yes, and both of those things look like they belong in space; highly engineered for mass savings and purposely-constructed for the job.

Well humans live on a stupid oversized world that lacks the dense seed a real planet has and so had to grow to an enormous size just to support life. That's meant getting into space has been inordinately difficult for them, indeed it's a miracle they managed it at all. On a planet that isn't obese such as Kerbin reaching space is reasonably achievable by a normal civilization once rocket engines have been developed, without having to spend an extortionate amount on engineering every last gram away.

/Kerbalviewpoint

Compared to real life, I see Kerbal rocket parts as cheap and rugged but heavy and underperforming compared to real ones, and that difference as a consequence of Kerbin's small size. And yes I know Kerbin is so dense as to be impossible with known chemical elements, but hey, it is the planet it is, handwavium core and all.

Now I wonder if I could get RO parts in my game but also keep the stock parts...

[tater]

^^^I'm fine with that rationale for kerbal tech handwaving, but why are spaceplanes, well, pretty, and rocket parts look like my kid drew them?

[regex]

Do I really need to spam pictures of everything put in space to get my point across?

If your point is that KSP doesn't look anything like real life then you've made it.

- - - Updated - - -

^^^I'm fine with that rationale for kerbal tech handwaving, but why are spaceplanes, well, pretty, and rocket parts look like my kid drew them?

Yeah, this.

[passinglurker]

^^^I'm fine with that rationale for kerbal tech handwaving, but why are spaceplanes, well, pretty, and rocket parts look like my kid drew them?

I'm all for the rockets looking new and sleek and shiny like porkjets parts, but roverdude isn't making rockets he's making payloads for rockets so I'll say again I'm splitting styles here between payloads and lifters, and not between planes and rockets.

so in the end busy and simple styles can coexist there is no need for this "is kerbal supposed to be sleek or junky?" conflict and I'd find it rather boring if one style overpowered the other. Yes all parts quality should be improved and brought to a consistent level, and all parts texture efficiency should be improve as well, but by no means should they all be given "the same glossy paint job" so to speak.

[I.O.M.]

I'm just going to throw in my two cents and say that Squad seriously needs to address the inconsistent quality of their models and textures. It was understandable when KSP was still in alpha and beta but now that it's a "fully-released" title they really need to polish the visuals. Have Porkjet redo the rocket parts, or hell, hire Ven since he's almost done with his own revamp mod.

I can tolerate having inconsistent models and textures between fan-made mods and addons, but not when it's from the professionally made product.

And regarding the antenna, it's not great, not terrible. The material for the dish is bad, I can't tell if Roverdude was going for sheet metal or carbon fiber. Either one seems questionable for an antenna. The dish itself is weird, I'm no expert but a quick google search shows that dishes are consistently smooth on the inside. A smooth, solid gray, dish would be an improvement in my opinion.

[StarStreak2109]

I consider the artwork of the rockets 2nd priority. Let them first get rid of the bugs, optimize the game and finalize features, then make a good pass over the art work. I also am no fan of these grey-ish mush-like textures. While I appreciate those parts were "found lying by the side of the road", I think a bit more "rocket-ish" look would be nice indeed (same quality such as the SPP parts for instance).

[CG_Kerbin]

These are going to make fun catapults.

yes! you sir are a genius

[Majorjim!]

Finally! A proper DTV antenna!

lol I had the same thought. Thing is, I spent hours making a custom stock animated one on each side..

[cantab]

I consider the artwork of the rockets 2nd priority. Let them first get rid of the bugs, optimize the game and finalize features, then make a good pass over the art work. I also am no fan of these grey-ish mush-like textures. While I appreciate those parts were "found lying by the side of the road", I think a bit more "rocket-ish" look would be nice indeed (same quality such as the SPP parts for instance).

A fair criticism, but artwork and coding are handled by different people. Even if Squad hadn't hired Porkjet and Roverdude to do them, working on new plane parts and new antennae would have had a negligible impact on working on bugfixing and optimization.

[Temeter]

Lol, some people are still arguing about KSPs artstyle? It's not a realistic game, it's a simplified and more cartoonish version of real space flight, and the art fits that idea just fine, if you like it or not.

Concerning the porkjet asthetic (which is awesome btw), did you actually look at these parts? They have a slightly 60's sci-fi aerodynamic look, while the material looks like it's a bunch of metal bars, even lacking a real paint-job. Improvisation and slightly wacky style are present there, too.

Of course a lot of the parts are from old versions of the game and don't look that great, but Squad is a small developer and replacing modells takes time. Atm there is even need for new stuff, like a whole bunch of antennas, and it's not like nothing is being redone, the aircraft rework is mostly fnished with the next update.

Not sure what's there even complain about.

As for a more realistic style, there are mods, there always have been mods, and there always will be mods for people who want to customize KPS to their liking. That's a total non-issue.

[TMS]

So this escalated quickly...

In terms of feedback, both the model and texture quality are great. No complaints. But I'd consider three things.

One, consider converting the colour to white. Rightly or wrongly, in KSP I associate dark grey with either heavy structural elements or heat resistant tiles. Two, the pivot between the bottom of the boom and the base looks very basic. It'd look neater if the base was formed as a moulded housing and the end of the boom (and the pivot pin) wasn't visible. Three, consider merging the top of the boom into dish housing.

[Green Baron]

I for my part am very much looking forward to running a relay network. Let's just hope those antennas get an anti-kraken-paint (color doesn't matter) or a S.E.P.-Field. A herd of probes might attract the kraken's attention ....

As for the design, yep, it's a retro-look, but i find it nice, it fits perfectly into stock part design and once the dishes are in place the shape and color is not that important any more. But i'm sure we'll soon have mods were we can put effelsberg-style (and size) bowls in space.

:-)

k

[RoverDude]

And regarding the antenna, it's not great, not terrible. The material for the dish is bad, I can't tell if Roverdude was going for sheet metal or carbon fiber. Either one seems questionable for an antenna. The dish itself is weird, I'm no expert but a quick google search shows that dishes are consistently smooth on the inside. A smooth, solid gray, dish would be an improvement in my opinion.

Not quite.

[Wjolcz]

I like the antennas. They look way better than those we have now, so I'm not really sure why people are complaining.

Wil the new ones replace the old ones or just get added?

[The_Rocketeer]

The dish itself is weird, I'm no expert but a quick google search shows that dishes are consistently smooth on the inside. A smooth, solid gray, dish would be an improvement in my opinion.

Ahem

Squad, please put this in game as the POS super-budget sat dish!

Edited September 13, 2015 by The_Rocketeer

[RoverDude]

I like the antennas. They look way better than those we have now, so I'm not really sure why people are complaining.

Wil the new ones replace the old ones or just get added?

Added. Need more because we have new antenna mechanics coming in.

And @Rocketeer - awesome

And in general, I make stuff by having a collage of source documents, pick the elements I like, and pull them together (hence the Apollo/Hubble/Soyuz look of this one).

And thanks to the folks providing constructive, specific feedback (there are a couple of productive points buried in this thread) - it's helpful, and appreciated.

[I.O.M.]

Not quite.

image

That doesn't refute my point. the supports are at the back of the dish, and despite being wire mesh the inside is still smooth.