[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[Angelo Kerman]

On 12/25/2015 at 10:45 PM, 123nick said:

really? even the prarie greenhouses? infact, what do you even need to run the greenhouses, anyways? like, i heard you input mulch IIRC and get supplies, right? something like that? mine didnt seem to work, on my aptur colony

 

Hi @123nick, Happy New Year. I just checked, the USI-LS patch is indeed bundled with Pathfinder. The Prairie uses Organics and ElectricCharge to produce Supplies. It also requires 388.8 Organics to remain in the module in order to grow Supplies. I might change that requirement to Dirt now that Dirt is in the Community Resource Pack. The Prairie works differently than the USI-LS greenhouses from what I've seen. Instead of a small but steady stream of Supplies, the Prairie takes 540 hours to grow 180 units of Supplies. If you staff it with a Scientist, you can reduce the growing time and increase your crop yield. Of course, if you get a bad roll of the dice, you could potentially lose your crops.

@Buzz313th: I'm in the process of debugging the TERRAIN issues, and I haven't run with SCANSat in a long time, so it may take a bit. Next update will have the fix as well as some new toys to play with. Fortunately I was able to debug and fix the Grizzly wheel issues as well, just in time for KSP 1.1, heh.

[Buzz313th]

26 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

@Buzz313th: I'm in the process of debugging the TERRAIN issues, and I haven't run with SCANSat in a long time, so it may take a bit. Next update will have the fix as well as some new toys to play with. Fortunately I was able to debug and fix the Grizzly wheel issues as well, just in time for KSP 1.1, heh.

Thanks Angel, you rock!

 

Happy New Year

[Angelo Kerman]

32 minutes ago, Buzz313th said:

Thanks Angel, you rock!

 

Happy New Year

No problem. With MOLE in a good spot, I'm back on Pathfinder. I was reviewing your comments about the TERRAIN (the science spam is fixed), and noticed that you couldn't perform an orbital scan at 90km. I usually go up to 250km to do my scans, have you tried that?

[Buzz313th]

51 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

No problem. With MOLE in a good spot, I'm back on Pathfinder. I was reviewing your comments about the TERRAIN (the science spam is fixed), and noticed that you couldn't perform an orbital scan at 90km. I usually go up to 250km to do my scans, have you tried that?

I haven't, but I can... 

[Angelo Kerman]

Well, at least I finally crushed the crash bug when hopping from your base to the Terrain. Now I just have some artwork to finish.

[MaxPeck]

So the Homestead module isn't doing anything for me.  It won't inflate, in fact the option is mission from the right-click menu in flight, and I can't convert it to a different type other than the foundry while in the VAB - when I try it says "no template found".  

Any idea what's going on?  Logs don't show anything out of the ordinary.

[Angelo Kerman]

22 minutes ago, JJE64 said:

So the Homestead module isn't doing anything for me.  It won't inflate, in fact the option is mission from the right-click menu in flight, and I can't convert it to a different type other than the foundry while in the VAB - when I try it says "no template found".  

Any idea what's going on?  Logs don't show anything out of the ordinary.

Sounds like an installation issue. Make sure to download everything from either github or kerbal stuff. If you're using CKAN, don't, it causes endless support issues for me. If all you're using is Pahfinder, then be sure to install everything it comes with.

[MaxPeck]

I'm on a Mac, so CKAN is too much of a pain for me.  Plus, as I heard Roverdude say once, it just seems like a support issue spawner.  I get everything from Kerbalstuff of Github.

In my WildBlueIndustries folder, I have 4 subfolders: 000WildBlueTools, Buffalo, InterimWheel and Pathfinder.  In AVC (which is my primary way of keeping my mods up to date, thanks for using that!) everything shows green.  With versions 1.0.25 for Tools, 0.2.4 for Buffalo, and 0.9.5 for pathfinder.  I'm going to try re downloading pathfinder from Github and see if that fixes the issue.

I seriously love this mod - there's almost no point building planetary bases without it.

[Buzz313th]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 2:54 PM, Angel-125 said:

No problem. With MOLE in a good spot, I'm back on Pathfinder. I was reviewing your comments about the TERRAIN (the science spam is fixed), and noticed that you couldn't perform an orbital scan at 90km. I usually go up to 250km to do my scans, have you tried that?

Hey Angel,

I did a bit more testing with "Terrain".

Remember, I am using Remote Tech, so the first test I did I decided to take remote tech out of the equation by using a Kerbal in a pod as the command vehicle for the terrain scanner.  Took the vehicle up to 250km orbit above Kerbin and the orbital scan worked fine.  Next, I wanted to put remote tech back into the equation, So I modified the payload (Terrain Scanner) and made it into a probe (No kerbal, replaced pod with probe core and antenna for remote tech) and took it up to another Kerbin 250km polar orbit and the terrain scanner would not start an orbital scan.

My conclusion is that there is something funky going on between the scanner and remote tech, since as soon as the scanner became dependent on using remote tech, it became buggered.   We know it's working fine with Scan Sat, because it worked fine with the Kerbal in the pod under local control.

 

Lemme know if you need me to run more tests, or maybe you can give it a try with remote tech. 

 

 

[Angelo Kerman]

24 minutes ago, Buzz313th said:

Hey Angel,

I did a bit more testing with "Terrain".

Remember, I am using Remote Tech, so the first test I did I decided to take remote tech out of the equation by using a Kerbal in a pod as the command vehicle for the terrain scanner.  Took the vehicle up to 250km orbit above Kerbin and the orbital scan worked fine.  Next, I wanted to put remote tech back into the equation, So I modified the payload (Terrain Scanner) and made it into a probe (No kerbal, replaced pod with probe core and antenna for remote tech) and took it up to another Kerbin 250km polar orbit and the terrain scanner would not start an orbital scan.

My conclusion is that there is something funky going on between the scanner and remote tech, since as soon as the scanner became dependent on using remote tech, it became buggered.   We know it's working fine with Scan Sat, because it worked fine with the Kerbal in the pod under local control.

 

Lemme know if you need me to run more tests, or maybe you can give it a try with remote tech. 

 

 

Thank you for running the tests. I do not know what Remote Tech is doing differently since I normally don't use it. I'll have to download the latest and duplicate your steps. I suspect that RT does something to disable commands, but I'm not sure. At least it works in stock...

Meanwhile, I'm in the home stretch for the remaining artwork. The seats are placeholders, as are the monitor screens, but...

I expect to be done with 0.9.6 later this week, presuming I can finish the artwork and debug the RT issue.

[MaverickSawyer]

Looking very sharp! Can't wait to see this in my own install! 

[Angelo Kerman]

20 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Looking very sharp! Can't wait to see this in my own install! 

Thanks! It's getting there, IVAs are a lot of work for a lower rate of return compared to making rocket parts. Anyway, got the table chairs done, and added the bag o snacks:

Just a couple of more props to go.

[Randazzo]

lol!

"Includes Juice Box"

That's some detail right there.

[Bluebottle]

Wow, those IVAs look great, following on from the MSEV one.

Please forgive any errors in this first post. I'm not yet familiar with this forum interface.

Anyway, I've hit what looks like a thermal bug with a simple outpost on the Mun, near the Armstrong monument. I have an MSEV connected to a Ponderosa, Doc lab, Casa, and Hacienda. If I load the scene from the tracking station, everything works OK except for some cosmetic one-meter-above-the-ground hovering on scene load. But, when I try to land a resupply ship, I get an "Overheating - shutting down" message as soon as the base loads at the 2.3km limit (when I'm piloting the landing ship), followed 1-2 seconds later by a complete explosion of the base. No debris. It's just annihilated.

With the F12 menu and max temps ignored, I can land the ship, and the 9000+K temps go away with a 1000x time warp, but not with a reload of the scene. Everything in the base still stays around 500-600K, including poor old Bill when I EVA him from the base. The Hacienda even gets hotter than that.

The last shot in this album is probably the most interesting:

In the log, it looks like FlightIntegrator gets annoyed on an unload (??):

[LOG 02:14:20.398] [FlightIntegrator]: Vessel 03 - MSEV 1 has been unloaded 133.420000124257, applying analytic temperature 10818.1847637942

I have NREs, but they are related to a missing animation on AIES landing legs. That MSEV in that log message is linked to the base by KAS pipe. Just to check it wasn't KAS, I disconnected the KAS pipe between the base and the MSEV, and even tried retracting the Gold Diggers and turning off the Hacienda. The problem doesn't go away.

Again, it's only when the base loads as I bring another ship close to it that this occurs. Normal tracking-station loads are not affected, but if I KAS-connect my landing ship, disconnect, and then reload the scene, my ship disappears and the crew are listed as KIA. Probably not related to the heat problem though.

Edit: this is on KSP v1.0.5, 64-bit Linux build. I have many mods, all up to date according to CKAN. Pathfinder 0.9.5, Buffalo 0.2.4

Edited January 5, 2016 by Bluebottle
Added version info

[Angelo Kerman]

Not sure, but the geothermal plant does generate heat. What are you using as a radiator?

[Bluebottle]

Nothing yet. Radiators are in the ship I was landing at the base: the Gold Diggers are only operating at 3% thermal efficiency, so I was about to fix that. But none of the other parts are noticeably heated up when I load through the TS, and turning off the heat sources (drills, Hot Springs) doesn't prevent the problem otherwise.

Edit: and I turned off conduction when I was working out the problem, and it makes no difference.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Bluebottle
forgot about conduction

[123nick]

On 1/1/2016 at 4:53 PM, Angel-125 said:

Hi @123nick, Happy New Year. I just checked, the USI-LS patch is indeed bundled with Pathfinder. The Prairie uses Organics and ElectricCharge to produce Supplies. It also requires 388.8 Organics to remain in the module in order to grow Supplies. I might change that requirement to Dirt now that Dirt is in the Community Resource Pack. The Prairie works differently than the USI-LS greenhouses from what I've seen. Instead of a small but steady stream of Supplies, the Prairie takes 540 hours to grow 180 units of Supplies. If you staff it with a Scientist, you can reduce the growing time and increase your crop yield. Of course, if you get a bad roll of the dice, you could potentially lose your crops.

@Buzz313th: I'm in the process of debugging the TERRAIN issues, and I haven't run with SCANSat in a long time, so it may take a bit. Next update will have the fix as well as some new toys to play with. Fortunately I was able to debug and fix the Grizzly wheel issues as well, just in time for KSP 1.1, heh.

ohhh organics. so, you have some module, i guess, to get organics out of mulch, what supplies turns into after a while. with a prarie greenhouse, can a base be fully self-sufficient.

[Angelo Kerman]

12 minutes ago, 123nick said:

ohhh organics. so, you have some module, i guess, to get organics out of mulch, what supplies turns into after a while. with a prarie greenhouse, can a base be fully self-sufficient.

Yes, there is a MM patch for the Pigpen that converts mulch.

[123nick]

28 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Yes, there is a MM patch for the Pigpen that converts mulch.

ok, thanks for replying  

[Angelo Kerman]

5 hours ago, Bluebottle said:

Wow, those IVAs look great, following on from the MSEV one.

Please forgive any errors in this first post. I'm not yet familiar with this forum interface.

Anyway, I've hit what looks like a thermal bug with a simple outpost on the Mun, near the Armstrong monument. I have an MSEV connected to a Ponderosa, Doc lab, Casa, and Hacienda. If I load the scene from the tracking station, everything works OK except for some cosmetic one-meter-above-the-ground hovering on scene load. But, when I try to land a resupply ship, I get an "Overheating - shutting down" message as soon as the base loads at the 2.3km limit (when I'm piloting the landing ship), followed 1-2 seconds later by a complete explosion of the base. No debris. It's just annihilated.

With the F12 menu and max temps ignored, I can land the ship, and the 9000+K temps go away with a 1000x time warp, but not with a reload of the scene. Everything in the base still stays around 500-600K, including poor old Bill when I EVA him from the base. The Hacienda even gets hotter than that.

The last shot in this album is probably the most interesting:

In the log, it looks like FlightIntegrator gets annoyed on an unload (??):

[LOG 02:14:20.398] [FlightIntegrator]: Vessel 03 - MSEV 1 has been unloaded 133.420000124257, applying analytic temperature 10818.1847637942

I have NREs, but they are related to a missing animation on AIES landing legs. That MSEV in that log message is linked to the base by KAS pipe. Just to check it wasn't KAS, I disconnected the KAS pipe between the base and the MSEV, and even tried retracting the Gold Diggers and turning off the Hacienda. The problem doesn't go away.

Again, it's only when the base loads as I bring another ship close to it that this occurs. Normal tracking-station loads are not affected, but if I KAS-connect my landing ship, disconnect, and then reload the scene, my ship disappears and the crew are listed as KIA. Probably not related to the heat problem though.

Edit: this is on KSP v1.0.5, 64-bit Linux build. I have many mods, all up to date according to CKAN. Pathfinder 0.9.5, Buffalo 0.2.4

My guess is that there's something going on with the stock game. If you've turned off all the heat sources then you shouldn't be producing any heat. I'm not doing anything special when it comes to the heat generation. you might try removing ModuleCoreHeat from the hotsprings, and setting GeneratesHeat to false for ModuleResourceHarvester (both are stock game modules). You can find these in the HotSprings template and in the Gold Digger.

Hope that helps.

[Bluebottle]

11 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

My guess is that there's something going on with the stock game. If you've turned off all the heat sources then you shouldn't be producing any heat. I'm not doing anything special when it comes to the heat generation. you might try removing ModuleCoreHeat from the hotsprings, and setting GeneratesHeat to false for ModuleResourceHarvester (both are stock game modules). You can find these in the HotSprings template and in the Gold Digger.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. I've done more troubleshooting, and it turns out that I have to retract the Gold Diggers, deflate the Hot Springs (i.e. deactivate everything, letting them cool down below 500K), then detach them and put them in a KIS inventory or destroy them. If I just deactivate them, but leave them attached to something (anything, doesn't matter what it is): kaboom. If I just get rid of either the Gold DIggers or the Hot Springs (not both): kaboom. I'll try the template mods and re-test, although I wouldn't be surprised if it's some overflow or wild over-reaction in FlightIntegrator resulting from the core temps being over their limits. Do you use FI? I had no idea it even looked at thermals.

Edit: oops. It's the stock FI causing problems, not the ModularFlightIntegrator plugin that FAR and AJE need. Uninstalling MFI/FAR/AJE causes a crash-to-desktop instead.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Bluebottle
clarification

[Bluebottle]

13 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

My guess is that there's something going on with the stock game. If you've turned off all the heat sources then you shouldn't be producing any heat. I'm not doing anything special when it comes to the heat generation. you might try removing ModuleCoreHeat from the hotsprings, and setting GeneratesHeat to false for ModuleResourceHarvester (both are stock game modules). You can find these in the HotSprings template and in the Gold Digger.

Hope that helps.

Well, I made those changes, but there's no improvement. FI still thinks my MSEV is almost as hot as the surface of the sun. Immediately before that "analytic temperature", KSP applies some "procedural drag", but only for the crew cab and an antenna. Here's the log all the way from the end of the asset load. "Pad 1" is just a flag.

Spoiler

(asset load above here)
[LOG 20:20:26.546] WBILight [FFE55EE6][453.9660]: SetupAnimations called.
[LOG 20:20:26.546] WBILight [FFE55EE6][453.9660]: THERE! ARE! 0 LIGHTS!
[LOG 20:20:26.547] [SCANsat] start: live
[LOG 20:20:26.547] [SCANsat] sensorType: 0 fov: 0 min_alt: 0 max_alt: 0 best_alt: 0 power: 0.05
[LOG 20:20:26.571] [ModularFlightIntegrator] MFI Start
[LOG 20:20:26.571] Reloaded override drag cube for zeroed cube root part WBI.BuffaloCab (03 - MSEV 1) on vessel 03 - MSEV 1
[LOG 20:20:26.571] [ModularFlightIntegrator] Start. VesselModule on vessel : 
  ModularFlightIntegrator
  RPMVesselComputer
  AsstVesselModule
  FlightGUI
  SolverFlightSys
  FARVesselAero

(snipped NREs about landing leg animations)

[LOG 20:20:26.736] Create button for module Attitude Adjustment
[LOG 20:20:26.737] Create button for module Custom Window Editor
[LOG 20:20:26.739] Create button for module Flight Recorder
[LOG 20:20:26.740] [MechJeb2] No icon for Flight_Recorder
[LOG 20:20:26.741] Create button for module Maneuver Node Editor
[LOG 20:20:26.742] Create button for module Maneuver Planner
[LOG 20:20:26.743] Create button for module RCS Balancer
[LOG 20:20:26.745] Create button for module Rover Autopilot
[LOG 20:20:26.746] Create button for module Settings
[LOG 20:20:26.747] Create button for module Smart A.S.S.
[LOG 20:20:26.749] Create button for module SmartRcs
[LOG 20:20:26.751] [MechJeb2] No icon for SmartRcs
[LOG 20:20:26.751] Create button for module Translatron
[LOG 20:20:26.753] Create button for module Utilities
[LOG 20:20:26.754] Create button for module Warp Helper
[LOG 20:20:26.755] Create button for module Delta-V Stats
[LOG 20:20:26.757] Create button for module Orbit Info
[LOG 20:20:26.758] Create button for module Surface Info
[LOG 20:20:26.759] Create button for module Vessel Info
[WRN 20:20:26.778] HighlightingSystem : Multiple Highlighter components on a single GameObject is not allowed! Highlighter has been disabled on a GameObject with name 'model'.
[LOG 20:20:26.785] RPMVesselComputer: Awake for vessel Mun Outpost Alpha - Pad 1 (d13895a7-c2a1-416b-86a7-bae90cedcd0e).
[LOG 20:20:26.786] [Mun Outpost Alpha - Pad 1]: landed - waiting for ground contact to resume physics...
[LOG 20:20:26.794] [ModularFlightIntegrator] MFI Start
[LOG 20:20:26.794] Reloaded override drag cube for zeroed cube root part flag (Mun Outpost Alpha - Pad 1) on vessel Mun Outpost Alpha - Pad 1
[LOG 20:20:26.794] [ModularFlightIntegrator] Start. VesselModule on vessel : 
  ModularFlightIntegrator
  RPMVesselComputer
  AsstVesselModule
  FlightGUI
  SolverFlightSys
  FARVesselAero

[LOG 20:20:26.850] [EL Workshop] Kerbal: Verdi Kerman 0.2028567 0.3067097 False 0(0) 0 False 0 False True
[LOG 20:20:26.850] [EL Workshop] Kerbal: Jebediah Kerman 0.5 0.5 True 0(0) 0 False 1 False True
[LOG 20:20:26.855] [EL Workshop] Kerbal: Hayvy Kerman 0.02932851 0.5237317 False 0(0) 0 False 1 False True
[LOG 20:20:26.858] [EL Workshop] Kerbal: Bill Kerman 0.8 0.5 False 0(0) -1.490116E-08 True 1 False True
 
(snipped NREs about landing leg animations)

[LOG 20:20:26.988] DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for WBI.CrewCab
[LOG 20:20:27.072] DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for mediumDishAntenna
[LOG 20:20:27.098] [FlightIntegrator]: Vessel 03 - MSEV 1 has been unloaded 27533.5174224311, applying analytic temperature 5220.17258033923
 
(snipped NREs about landing leg animations)

[WRN 20:20:27.173] [PartJoint]: None of the provided nodes was valid!
 
(snipped NREs about landing leg animations)

[LOG 20:20:27.227] [02:28:46]: Buffalo Command Cab exploded due to overheating.
[LOG 20:20:27.228] WBI.BuffaloCab (03 - MSEV 1) Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0.5
[LOG 20:20:27.231] [linearRcs]: Deactivated
[ERR 20:20:27.250] Cannot find module 'ModuleDockingNode' (-1142502075)

[WRN 20:20:27.327] ContractConfigurator.Parameters.PartValidation: Unexpected value when undocking!  Raise a GitHub issue!
[WRN 20:20:27.328] ContractConfigurator.Parameters.HasCrewCapacity: Unexpected value when undocking!  Raise a GitHub issue!
[LOG 20:20:27.333] RPMVesselComputer: Awake for vessel (no name) (f7400e1e-4a63-41e2-971f-58e8fc9350dc).
[LOG 20:20:27.338] FF: vessel situation change for WBI.CrewCab, situation changed from 0 to SUB_ORBITAL
[ERR 20:20:27.493] Input is null
...
many, many explosions, all practically simultaneous

 

Edit: ah, something interesting. I edited the save file and experimented with the CoreThermalEnergy values in ModuleCoreHeat. Any non-zero value causes annihilation. Zero lets me keep my base. It is still overheated at about 532K per part, because of an "analytic temperature" of 625, but this shows that ModuleCoreHeat is a big part of the FI equation when it evaluates the temperature as if a vessel were coming out of time warp.

For comparison, my Gold Diggers had CoreThermalEnergy of ~30,600, and the Hot Springs was ~1,807,000. Are those around the expected values?

In any case, I accept this is likely nothing to do with Pathfinder parts, and all to do with FlightIntegrator weirdness. Sorry to gum up the thread.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Bluebottle
more information

[Angelo Kerman]

Yeah it definitely sounds like an issue with the stock game. I based my values on the stock drill-o-matic, but don't really know why you're having those issues. I'd say dump the part modules causing you grief and then try timewarping to let the parts cool down.

[MaxPeck]

On January 3, 2016 at 0:17 PM, Angel-125 said:

Sounds like an installation issue. Make sure to download everything from either github or kerbal stuff. If you're using CKAN, don't, it causes endless support issues for me. If all you're using is Pahfinder, then be sure to install everything it comes with.

So I downloaded and installed a new version from github.  Same result.  Everything else works flawlessly, but the homestead is functionless.

Is there any information I can provide you that will help chase this down?

[Angelo Kerman]

can you post your log files? That would help.