[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[helaeon]

@Angel-125 Totally. I got the part about removing the heat, why you did it, and agree (especially when time-warp is involved). But removing the generation of heat causes the drills to work at 10% the advertised rate because they are cold so ThermalEfficiency uses one of the first keys. Also not producing heat TemperatureModifier is also superfluous so can just go.

		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}

Drill is at something like 70K on the Mun so it uses the first key setting the drill rate to 10%. Drill part would need to be 500K to get advertised efficiency. The Buffalo and Pathfinder drills lack this block in ModuleResourceHarvester so work properly.

[Angelo Kerman]

19 hours ago, helaeon said:

@Angel-125 Totally. I got the part about removing the heat, why you did it, and agree (especially when time-warp is involved). But removing the generation of heat causes the drills to work at 10% the advertised rate because they are cold so ThermalEfficiency uses one of the first keys. Also not producing heat TemperatureModifier is also superfluous so can just go.

		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}

Drill is at something like 70K on the Mun so it uses the first key setting the drill rate to 10%. Drill part would need to be 500K to get advertised efficiency. The Buffalo and Pathfinder drills lack this block in ModuleResourceHarvester so work properly.

Ahh ok, I get it. I'll add that to the next patch then.

[Angelo Kerman]

Just a heads up that this week I'm working on getting Pathfinder and my other mods working with KSP 1.5.X. I've got a few things to do including some refactoring work, KAS 1.0 integration, and the like.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Angel-125

[RocketSquid]

On 10/26/2018 at 12:42 PM, capi3101 said:

Warp Drive isn't it either. That's a relief...at the same time, though, it doesn't leave a whole lot of other options.

000_ClickThroughBlocker
001_ToolbarControl
CommunityCategoryKit
Firespitter
KER
TriggerTech (KAC, TransferWindowPlanner)
 

CCK, perhaps? I have noted that certain parts (the Ponderosa in particular) are showing up in multiple places. The Ponderosa is also set up in my build where you can stuff Kerbals inside them while they aren't deployed; if I've read the release notes correctly, that shouldn't be happening. I have no earthly idea if/why that would also affect the Buckboards.

But, as I've become fond of saying of late, it's worth trying. Hopefully it doesn't break anything in the process.

EDIT: ...and that's a 'nope'.

My research would seem to indicate that the problems has to be one of the WildBlue Industries mods or their dependencies, since the issues persist even in an install with only the WBI mods, KIS, and KAS.

Also, sadly, the regimen of restarts as recommended by @Angel-125 did not work.

Edited October 30, 2018 by RocketSquid

[shdwlrd]

23 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

My research would seem to indicate that the problems has to be one of the WildBlue Industries mods or their dependencies, since the issues persist even in an install with only the WBI mods, KIS, and KAS.

Also, sadly, the regimen of restarts as recommended by @Angel-125 did not work.

It seems to be either WBT or the CRP template. I actually got a chance to play this weekend, but forgot to switch the game mode from CRP. Since equipment is common to the play modes I decided to finish my base. After closing the game, I started poking through the logs. I noticed that instead of loading the CRP template, it was trying to load the WB Lite template. (I'll put the log up tonight when I get home.)

Plus another oddity I saw was indexing mismatches in the log. That I know from working with databases that indexing errors isn't a good thing to see.

log file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pz1tmsk1mcy23u/KSP 102818.log?dl=0

Edited October 31, 2018 by shdwlrd
adding logs

[capi3101]

Tried using an OPAL-configured Casa in Lite Blue mode a day or two ago; made everything it was supposed to except for Slag. Since I wanted to make Konkrete, that was a bit of a bummer.

I was able to save the Equipment-configured and Battery-configured Buckboards from the Pathfinder Starter Craft as subassemblies. Craft files attached. Might be helpful to compare what I'm seeing to what they're supposed to look like.

Trying to remember if there's anything else that's totally out of whack or not; nothing else is jumping to mind. Hopefully this info would narrow the possibilities down a bit more.

 

On a different topic, is there an extant tutorial for the mod that is newer than what's on the wiki? I'm sure I've asked about this before...I'm trying to find some info on how to gain "guidance" and "delta-v" for the Pipeline parts; finally got a pair of them up and running in my litterbox this afternoon (one in orbit, one on the ground) but then I couldn't figure out how to actually use the things...which kinda sucks. At least I understand the power requirement part.

 

EDIT: Played a brief session this afternoon - remembered a few of the other things I've observed that I can't tell if they are intended behaviors or not; guessing not but I really don't know:

• I was able to use the drills and mine Ore with a Claim Jumper-configured Hacienda without assembling it module first.
• I was able to access a Watney-configured Doc; my understanding is that they shouldn't be available in Lite Blue.
• The game is refusing to recognize the fact that I've dug up 1250 fresh ore from Mun, despite the fact that I've done it four times over now. This is with Pathfinder and stock drill parts; didn't have this problem before the Pathfinder installation.
• Module assembly isn't consuming Equipment. Today, I put out the necessary load to assemble a Pipeline on the Runway; all that Equipment and Konkrete was still there after the Pipeline inflated.

Again, hoping this narrows something down.

Edited October 30, 2018 by capi3101

[The-Doctor]

@Angel-125 hello again, I have a few questions, are some resources only available on certain planetary bodies and in certain areas of them? That would certainly give a big reason to have multiple outposts, stations, and cargo ships in transit. Just a question and an idea, thanks, keep up the good work

[shdwlrd]

I was thinking of a way to make a base without the worry of it sliding. Before I got sidelined with the CRP bug and life in general, I figured I would give this idea a try. I used the base plates from Planetary Domes and the Little Bigfoot landing legs from KPBS. I think it's a workable solution.

That got me thinking, "What if there was a collapsible base plates with feet to ship with the rest of the base?" (You know, to keep with the pack up and go theme for Pathfinder. ) So Angel-125, you think is would be possible after you finish bug stomping and KFS to add something like the above, but more appropriately sized for the inflatables?

[Angelo Kerman]

47 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

I was thinking of a way to make a base without the worry of it sliding. Before I got sidelined with the CRP bug and life in general, I figured I would give this idea a try. I used the base plates from Planetary Domes and the Little Bigfoot landing legs from KPBS. I think it's a workable solution.

That got me thinking, "What if there was a collapsible base plates with feet to ship with the rest of the base?" (You know, to keep with the pack up and go theme for Pathfinder. ) So Angel-125, you think is would be possible after you finish bug stomping and KFS to add something like the above, but more appropriately sized for the inflatables?

If you use Kerbal Konstructs there is also the Buffalo Bulldozer for exactly that purpose.

[shdwlrd]

13 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

If you use Kerbal Konstructs there is also the Buffalo Bulldozer for exactly that purpose.

I've haven't had good experiences using Kerbal Konstructs in the past. That's why I asked.  Looking at the current version, I may try it again.

[capi3101]

Trying to tweak the KE parameter for a Pipeline orbital shot from the KSC to an orbiting 100 km receiver, with the intent of delivering an X200-32's worth of fuel to orbit (FOR SCIENCE!!...and my own understanding of how the part works). If I've done the math right, the parameter should be 56250000000 (i.e. 56.25 giganewtons). Guessing I'm got something off though - either the mass at 16,000 kg, or the velocity at 2500 m/s (slightly higher than Kerbin orbital velocity at 100 km). Can someone spot me on the math, please? Would that be sufficient for a Kerbin launch, or do I need to shoot for 3500 m/s instead (you know, to account for the atmosphere)?

Also, if I'm reading the configuration file right, the required activation EC per second is 400 - is this correct, and when did it change? Last thing I read was 160/sec...and I think that was what it said in the VAB...

Finally, I want to say I read of a way to increase the rate of guidance data acquisition but I don't remember if that really happened or not. Is there a way of doing that (other than adjusting the value in the configuration file)? 

Any help with this part would be greatly appreciated.

 

[The-Doctor]

@Angel-125 hello again, I have a few questions, are some resources only available on certain planetary bodies and in certain areas of them? That would certainly give a big reason to have multiple outposts, stations, and cargo ships in transit. Just a question and an idea, thanks, keep up the good work

[Apaseall]

This is my understanding.
The PathFinder download is set for playing in Classic Mode. The download does not presently contain a WBIPlayMode.cfg file which you would find in your /GameData folder.
PathFinder uses filename extension renaming of files found in the template folders (i.e. in both PathFinder and WBITools? directories) to leverage ModuleManager to control how PathFinder behaves in different Play Modes.

For those of you experiencing behavior that feels odd [KSP ver1.4.5] I would suggest that you ensure that the filename extensions match those expected for the Play Mode found in your WBIPlayMode.cfg file.
One way to do this might to be make everything the same as the download, (i.e. check the filename extensions of the templates files) then check that your WBIPlayMode.cfg file is set for Classic Mode.
Run KSP. Change Play Mode to the one you want to play with, then immediately restart KSP.
Please note, this is my suggestion, it may entail you needing to rebuild part or all of your base, thus I cannot stress enough that you make sure you have very clearly named save games in case you need to revert things. Always keep at least one copy of your saves somewhere safe :)

[RocketSquid]

14 hours ago, Apaseall said:

This is my understanding.
The PathFinder download is set for playing in Classic Mode. The download does not presently contain a WBIPlayMode.cfg file which you would find in your /GameData folder.
PathFinder uses filename extension renaming of files found in the template folders (i.e. in both PathFinder and WBITools? directories) to leverage ModuleManager to control how PathFinder behaves in different Play Modes.

For those of you experiencing behavior that feels odd [KSP ver1.4.5] I would suggest that you ensure that the filename extensions match those expected for the Play Mode found in your WBIPlayMode.cfg file.
One way to do this might to be make everything the same as the download, (i.e. check the filename extensions of the templates files) then check that your WBIPlayMode.cfg file is set for Classic Mode.
Run KSP. Change Play Mode to the one you want to play with, then immediately restart KSP.
Please note, this is my suggestion, it may entail you needing to rebuild part or all of your base, thus I cannot stress enough that you make sure you have very clearly named save games in case you need to revert things. Always keep at least one copy of your saves somewhere safe

Alas, I have already tried this to no avail. It’s starting to seem like my game is irreparably borked, since thermometers and girder segments seem to be declaring themselves too technologically advanced for my use.

[Angelo Kerman]

The good news is that I have squashed a few bugs. The only thing left is integration with the latest KAS and KIS. Once that is done I can finally kick out the KSP 1.5 release...

[Apaseall]

12 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

Alas, I have already tried this to no avail. It’s starting to seem like my game is irreparably borked, since thermometers and girder segments seem to be declaring themselves too technologically advanced for my use.

Sorry to hear my suggestion was not helpful to you. I think those parts are not PathFinder parts, so yup I think you are in a spot of bother there.
On a side note, I do not recall using strike through in my post, in fact I am pretty sure I have never used it. Looks like you are not the only one with odd things happening!
I do seem to be having joy with my install now, fingers crossed.

[Apaseall]

I had a problem with OmniStorage: The popup which allows us to pick the resources stored appeared as the expected grey box but all the writing was scrunched up along the top of the box.

I encountered this problem when I: converted a chuckwagon to OmniStorage.

My situation: I have two bases side by side, the first base has one chuckwagon set for OmniStorage which is working fine. When I tried to change a chuckwagon to OmniStorage in the second base the problem occurred.

I solved my problem by: editing a save game.
I compared the PART nodes for the working chuckwagon with the problem one.
I copied certain modules and resource nodes from the working chuckwagon to problem one, i.e. I copied the working chuckwagon,  over the problem one whilst NOT overwriting individuality data like part ID's, launch ID etc.
Loading the edited save game showed both chuckwagons to be working and I am able to change the resources stored in the second chuckwagon without the problem reappearing.

Details: the PART node for second chuckwagon appears to not have had the module OmniStorage applied to in the same way the first one had.
If I remember correctly the module OmniStorage was missing and the value for the key pair OmniStorage was blank. My apologies for not making a note of the differences at the time I was editing.

Possible contributing factor: the problem chuckwagon in was not manned during the change to OmniStorage.
When I changed the working chuckwagon in the first base it was manned.
I manned the problem chuckwagon prior to doing my editing, but manning alone did not resolve the issue.

Technical notes:

Spoiler

OmniStorage is not normally an option available for CRP PlayMode.
I made a copy of the Storage Template that grants OmniStorage and ensured that it was always processed by ModuleManager.
I left PathFinder to its own devices, namely letting it control the filename extension to normally render the OmniStorage Template inactive.
I do not change PlayMode and always play in CRP mode.
My patch is an unedited copy of the template already present in the PathFinder mod.

ModuleManager.configcache has only two entries for name = Omni Storage, one for WBI and one for OPT.

UrlConfig
{
    name = Omni Storage
    type = STORAGE_TEMPLATE
    parentUrl = my_MM/WBI_Force_Omni_Storage
    STORAGE_TEMPLATE
    {
        name = Omni Storage
        author = Angel-125T
        logoPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Pathfinder/Decals/Omni
        glowPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Pathfinder/Decals/Omni
        description = This kit can store a wide variety of resources in varying amounts.
        templateTags = stowage
        MODULE
        {
            name = WBIOmniStorage
            storageVolume = 9000
            accountForSwitcherCapacity = true
            reconfigureSkill = ConverterSkill
            reconfigureRank = 1
            requiredResource = Equipment
            requiredAmount = 0
            resourceBlacklist = GeoEnergy;ElectroPlasma;CoreHeat;Atmosphere;CompressedAtmosphere;LabTime;ExposureTime;ScopeTime;SolarReports;SimulatorTime;GravityWaves;IntakeAir;StaticCharge;EVA Propellant;Plants
        }
    }
}

EDIT
The same problem has appeared when I tried to setup OmniStorage for a third base close to the previous two.
This time I made a note of the differences in the PART nodes:

Spoiler

Here I have listed the only differences between a chuckwagon with OmniStorage storing multiple Resources and the problem chuckwagon.
As we can see I did have the part manned, and that was before the conversion to OmniStorage was attempted.

Items of concern are;
1. omniStorageResources =
In MODULE[WBIMultipurposeStorage] is blank.
I think it should read something like omniStorageResources = Nitronite;Nitratine;Mopedantte;Silicates;Salt;Spodumene;Substrate;Uraninite;Zeonium;

2. There are no RESOURCE nodes

3. No RESOURCES appear as Distribution[] either but since MODULE[WBIResourceDistributor] contains isParticipating = False, I left those out of the post for brevity.

4. Zeonium only appears in the ClassicStock Template located in \GameData\WildBlueIndustries\000WildBlueTools\Templates\ and may be a problem if present in a CRP PlayMode save.

 

            PART
            {
                name = WBI.Chuckwagon
                // snip
                crew = Ludton Kerman
                // snip
                MODULE
                {
                    name = WBIMultipurposeStorage
                    // snip
                    omniStorageResources =
                    // snip
                    WBIMODULE
                    {
                        name = WBIOmniStorage
                        // snip
                        omniResources = Nitronite,34.2,1;Nitratine,171,1;Mopedantte,171,1;Silicates,171,1;Salt,171,1;Spodumene,171,1;Substrate,171,1;Uraninite,171,1;Zeonium,34.2,1
                        // snip
                    }
                    // snip
                }
                MODULE
                {
                    name = WBIResourceDistributor
                    // snip
                    isParticipating = False
                    // snip
                }
            }

Once more I was able to solve the problem by editing the PART nodes. I was able then to reconfigure to OmniStorage.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Apaseall

[Angelo Kerman]

My refit of Pathfinder continues. The changes to KAS have really thrown a wrench into things, and I've removed several built-in KAS ports as a result. The only thing I can't figure out is how to set up the Mineshaft's crew tube with the new system. I'm hoping @IgorZ can help there. I'd rather keep using KASModuleStrut (which is the old way to connect craft together and do resource transfer), but if I can get the part straightened out with the new system, it should be ok. I'll probably have to punt on that for now.

Meanwhile, I've been crunching several bugs, including issues with the Rangeland buckling when you build a large rocket on top of it, and issues related to deploying large parts like the Hogan:

Some quality of life improvements include upper mounting racks on the crew tubes and a new radially attached part that's used to mount the Gaslight, Sombrero, and Telegraph. That should make it easier to attach these accessories, as I've found that ground attaching them is problematic.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Angel-125

[helaeon]

I think... from what I've seen fiddling with new KAS in-game there is probably one semi-simple way to set up the mineshaft without a special addition to KIS/KAS for pathfinder:

2 part solution (really one existing and one new).  One half of the mine-shaft is the side with the tube this would be set up similarly to "RTS-1 Resource Transfer Station" using the KAS Cable and KAS Joint Source modules. You make a special joint source something like "MS-125". The other shaft is a receiving port similar to "JS-1 Joint Socket" but configured for the MS-125 cable type, this would be the existing part. Ideally these would connect by default in docked mode, not sure if that is possible though. Though not the end of the world if that has to be done manually. I'm not sure how new KAS handles multiple connection points as there are no example parts that operate that way. I think from reading IgorZ's response to you on the KAS thread you'd also need to make a special mesh for the connection "cable".

Want me to try and make some part .cfgs that do the above using existing meshes and see if it works?

 

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

My refit of Pathfinder continues. The changes to KAS have really thrown a wrench into things, and I've removed several built-in KAS ports as a result. The only thing I can't figure out is how to set up the Mineshaft's crew tube with the new system. I'm hoping @IgorZ can help there. I'd rather keep using KASModuleStrut (which is the old way to connect craft together and do resource transfer), but if I can get the part straightened out with the new system, it should be ok. I'll probably have to punt on that for now.

I'm actively working on a good replacement to the flexible corridors, that were offered for free in the old KAS. For now the idea is to start offering really flexible corridors. For this, we need:

1. Properly display the corridor so what it's clear it's flexible.
2. Provide a flexible link to not restrain the connected parts.

For now I have this (it's an early prototype!). Are you doing the modeling/texturing work for your parts? I have an idea how the shaft can be refactored to be both physical and nice looking. But we'll need someone who can work with the models (not me, I'm very bad in it).

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

I'm actively working on a good replacement to the flexible corridors, that were offered for free in the old KAS. For now the idea is to start offering really flexible corridors. For this, we need:

1. Properly display the corridor so what it's clear it's flexible.
2. Provide a flexible link to not restrain the connected parts.

For now I have this (it's an early prototype!). Are you doing the modeling/texturing work for your parts? I have an idea how the shaft can be refactored to be both physical and nice looking. But we'll need someone who can work with the models (not me, I'm very bad in it).

Yay, thank you for your hard work!

I do my own modeling and texturing work, so once I understand how to put the part together I can make a proper connection tunnel.

[Apaseall]

I have a resource production chain question. Can someone give me a hand please.
I want to make Konkrete. I have a Hacienda configured as a Brew Works. It says I need a bunch of input resources, one of which is Slag. The remaining input resources I have plenty of.
I have another Hacienda configured as a Claim Jumper Strip Miner. It says it takes as an input resource Ore and output a whole heap of resources. Slag appears as one of those outputs.
However I do not seem to be accumulating any Slag. When I Manage Operations I see the Hacienda is configured as a Claim Jumper, but Slag output is negative number whilst all the other output resources are positive.
Am I going about this the right way? As in should I be expecting to obtain my Slag from the Claim Jumper? If so, then why does it give a negative number for Slag?
If not, how do I go about getting some Slag? <no rude jokes please>.
Thanks.

Edit.
I have a ChuckWagon configured for OnmiStorage. One of the many resources it is set to hold is Slag. But when I look at the Resource Distribution information, Slag is not listed at all.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Apaseall

[capi3101]

43 minutes ago, Apaseall said:

I have a resource production chain question. Can someone give me a hand please.
I want to make Konkrete. I have a Hacienda configured as a Brew Works. It says I need a bunch of input resources, one of which is Slag. The remaining input resources I have plenty of.
I have another Hacienda configured as a Claim Jumper Strip Miner. It says it takes as an input resource Ore and output a whole heap of resources. Slag appears as one of those outputs.
However I do not seem to be accumulating any Slag. When I Manage Operations I see the Hacienda is configured as a Claim Jumper, but Slag output is negative number whilst all the other output resources are positive.
Am I going about this the right way? As in should I be expecting to obtain my Slag from the Claim Jumper? If so, then why does it give a negative number for Slag?
If not, how do I go about getting some Slag? <no rude jokes please>.
Thanks.

Edit.
I have a ChuckWagon configured for OnmiStorage. One of the many resources it is set to hold is Slag. But when I look at the Resource Distribution information, Slag is not listed at all.

Time for a "is it plugged in" piece of advice - Make sure the Prospector is turned on in the Claimjumper (this is a separate click from "Start Ore"; you have to go into your Converter list for the part to turn it on as best I can tell). That one's nailed me twice already...for the same purpose, incidentally. You can also get Slag through an OPAL Casa or Pondarosa but the rate is atrocious.

If your Prospector is turned on already, we'll go from there.

Edited November 5, 2018 by capi3101

[Apaseall]

4 minutes ago, capi3101 said:

Time for a "is it plugged in" piece of advice - Make sure the Prospector is turned on in the Claimjumper (this is a separate click from "Start Ore"; you have to go into your Converter list for the part to turn it on as best I can tell). That one's nailed me twice already...for the same purpose, incidentally. You can also get Slag through an OPAL Casa or Pondarosa but the rate is atrocious.

If your Prospector is turned on already, we'll go from there.

Hacienda, Manage Op, Convertor, Prospector turned on, yes. (200%) 260% load.
Re OmniStorage in ChuckWagon, Solved, I edited MODULE[WBIResourceDistributor] to include DISTRIBUTION{resourceName = Slag   mode = 1}
Oddly enough this node was right after the Water node, which caused a problem else where that I solved by editing. Seems like Water messes up stuff.
I like the 'is it turned on' ?

[Angelo Kerman]

Pathfinder 1.31.0.0 is now available.
GitHub URL: https://github.com/Angel-125/Pathfinder/releases/tag/v1.31.0.0
 
Changes
 
New Part
- Accessory Mount (Space Exploration). The Accessory Mount can be radially attached and provides a hardpoint for accessories like the Gaslight, Sombrero, and Telegraph.

Bug Fixes & Enhancements
- Recompled for KSP 1.5.X.
- Updated KIS MM patches to KIS 1.16.
- Updated KAS MM patches to KAS 1.1.
- Updated OSE Workshop MM patches to OSE Workshop 1.3.
IMPORTANT NOTE: The latest KAS update is potentially save breaking to Pathfinder. It is Strongly recommended that you de-link any parts attached via pipes and any vessels connected via Mineshaft.
- Added rack mounts to the crew tunnels on the Chuckwagon, Casa, Doc, and Hacienda.
- The Gaslight, Sombrero, and Telegraph can now be surface mounted in addition to stack mounted.
- Removed ThermalEfficiency and TemperatureModifier nodes from stock drills in the MM_Drills.cfg patch. Thanks haelon!
- Part decals now default to hidden.
- Renamed the Hogan to the Castillo.
- Added resource distribution and Omni Converters to the Castillo.
- Consolidated the Castillo's Community Center, Dormitory, and Classroom template functionalities into a single template.
- Removed KAS attachment fixtures from a variety of parts. You'll need to use the KAS pipe connector or better yet, Pathfinder's resource distribution.
- Added OmniStorage to the ground-based Pipeline as well as a resource distributor.
- In Classic Stock Play Mode, OSE Workshop now uses Equipment instead of MaterialKits for its default resource.
- Added Classic Stock recipes to OSE Workshop.
- Added new ElectricCharge + Rock = Konkrete OmniConverter to Classic Stock. This is similar to the real-world LavaHive regolith melter.
- Omni converters will automatically shut down if the vessel's Electric Charge falls below 5%.
- Streamlined feedback messages related to using resource distribution to pull resoures needed to assemble parts.
- Fixed some issues around the boxed parts and their deployment.
- Fixed some issues related to the Operations Manager not showing up properly.
- Fixed emitters on the Buckboards producing smoke when they shouldn't.
- Fixed issue where assembling parts with resource costs didn't actually spend the required resources.
- Fixed issue with heavy parts causing physics and collider problems during assembly.