[1.12.x] USI Core (Reactors and Kontainers)

[RookFett]

On 11/1/2021 at 2:53 PM, panarchist said:

The spherical tanks.

They do not hold Oxygen, they do hold Oxidizer, which is not the same.

I went through the config files for the tanks, none list Oxygen as a resource, even though it's listed in the CRP - plus there is a LiquidOxygen entry, probably for NRE.

The PAW of the BSX-100 can make LH2/O2 resource, with and output of Liquid Hydrogen, and Oxygen from Karbonite.     The tanks handle LH2 - but no O2.

 

 

[panarchist]

11 hours ago, RookFett said:

They do not hold Oxygen, they do hold Oxidizer, which is not the same.

I went through the config files for the tanks, none list Oxygen as a resource, even though it's listed in the CRP - plus there is a LiquidOxygen entry, probably for NRE.

The PAW of the BSX-100 can make LH2/O2 resource, with and output of Liquid Hydrogen, and Oxygen from Karbonite.     The tanks handle LH2 - but no O2.

 

 

"they do hold Oxidizer, which is not the same" - there's been debate over that for at least 7 years. It may or may not be, though that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Yep, I was mistaken. Either I was previously using another mod that patched it in, or I am thinking of some of Nertea's "Near Future" parts. It would be fairly easy to write a MM patch to add it in. Interesting that the tanks have liquid hydrogen in the config but not LOX.

[RoverDude]

11 hours ago, panarchist said:

"they do hold Oxidizer, which is not the same" - there's been debate over that for at least 7 years. It may or may not be, though that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Yep, I was mistaken. Either I was previously using another mod that patched it in, or I am thinking of some of Nertea's "Near Future" parts. It would be fairly easy to write a MM patch to add it in. Interesting that the tanks have liquid hydrogen in the config but not LOX.

If someone gets punchy and provides a pull request, we can add it in.  Barring that, a github issue.  Will need Oxygen for an upcoming USI-LS update anyway

[panarchist]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

If someone gets punchy and provides a pull request, we can add it in.  Barring that, a github issue.  Will need Oxygen for an upcoming USI-LS update anyway

@RoverDude Sure, I'll take that on. The only things I need are guidance on ResourceAmounts and TankCost, and where in the list it should fall. Using FlatRnd_01.cfg as an example:

MODULE
	{
		name = FSfuelSwitch
		resourceNames =Karborundum;XenonGas;ArgonGas;LiquidFuel,Oxidizer;Water;Chemicals;Mulch;LqdHydrogen;LiquidFuel;MonoPropellant;Oxidizer
		resourceAmounts = 600;6000;192000;54,66;600;600;600;6000;120;120;120
		initialResourceAmounts = 0;0;0;0,0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0
		tankCost = 2400000;24000;2016;55.08;0.48;9600;0;221;96;144;22
		basePartMass = 0.075
		tankMass = 0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0
		hasGUI = false
	}

LqdOxygen has 16.1x the density of LqdHydrogen, so presumably that means for this tank, resourceAmounts would be 96000. (rounding to 16x) As for tankCost - would that be 0 as with LqdHydrogen?

My presumption is that since you're using LqdHydrogen, LqdOxygen would be the CRP O2 resource to use, and that it should fall immediately after LqdHydrogen in the resource order.  There's 22 part files to modify, 2 modules for each part. (The FStextureSwitch2 changes seem obvious - add "LO2" after "LH2" in the texture order and add ";11" to the end of fuelTankSetups. (as well as adding the additional values in the module above for initialResourceAmounts and tankMass) Should take an hour of work (I'm slow) plus some testing time. Honestly, I am so rusty at Github, it'll probably take me longer to create the PR than to do the work. Am I forgetting anything?

Edited November 4, 2021 by panarchist
corrected camel case on field name

[RoverDude]

25 minutes ago, panarchist said:

@RoverDude Sure, I'll take that on. The only things I need are guidance on ResourceAmounts and TankCost, and where in the list it should fall. Using FlatRnd_01.cfg as an example:

MODULE
	{
		name = FSfuelSwitch
		resourceNames =Karborundum;XenonGas;ArgonGas;LiquidFuel,Oxidizer;Water;Chemicals;Mulch;LqdHydrogen;LiquidFuel;MonoPropellant;Oxidizer
		resourceAmounts = 600;6000;192000;54,66;600;600;600;6000;120;120;120
		initialResourceAmounts = 0;0;0;0,0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0
		tankCost = 2400000;24000;2016;55.08;0.48;9600;0;221;96;144;22
		basePartMass = 0.075
		tankMass = 0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0
		hasGUI = false
	}

LqdOxygen has 16.1x the density of LqdHydrogen, so presumably that means for this tank, resourceAmounts would be 96000. (rounding to 16x) As for tankCost - would that be 0 as with LqdHydrogen?

My presumption is that since you're using LqdHydrogen, LqdOxygen would be the CRP O2 resource to use, and that it should fall immediately after LqdHydrogen in the resource order.  There's 22 part files to modify, 2 modules for each part. (The FStextureSwitch2 changes seem obvious - add "LO2" after "LH2" in the texture order and add ";11" to the end of fuelTankSetups. (as well as adding the additional values in the module above for initialResourceAmounts and tankMass) Should take an hour of work (I'm slow) plus some testing time. Honestly, I am so rusty at Github, it'll probably take me longer to create the PR than to do the work. Am I forgetting anything?

First - thanks!

To answer your questions - ResourceAmount is in liters, so you can borrow from any other CRP resource (i.e. you can steal from Water for the resource amount - 600).  Cost you can do a similar comparison - resource costs are in the CRP resource definitions.  Location in the list can be at the tail end, since we've long since abandoned doing them alphabetically

Also a second thank you   If you need assistance with Github let me know.

[panarchist]

20 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

First - thanks!

To answer your questions - ResourceAmount is in liters, so you can borrow from any other CRP resource (i.e. you can steal from Water for the resource amount - 600).  Cost you can do a similar comparison - resource costs are in the CRP resource definitions.  Location in the list can be at the tail end, since we've long since abandoned doing them alphabetically

Also a second thank you   If you need assistance with Github let me know.

My intention isn't alphabetical, more thinking about when I am selecting resources for a tank - I'd expect to see LOX and LHyd next to each other rather than having it show up after the KSP default resources. Does that make sense to you, or should I just add it to the tail end?

[RoverDude]

16 minutes ago, panarchist said:

My intention isn't alphabetical, more thinking about when I am selecting resources for a tank - I'd expect to see LOX and LHyd next to each other rather than having it show up after the KSP default resources. Does that make sense to you, or should I just add it to the tail end?

Makes sense - I am 100% good with either.

[panarchist]

52 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

First - thanks!

To answer your questions - ResourceAmount is in liters, so you can borrow from any other CRP resource (i.e. you can steal from Water for the resource amount - 600).  Cost you can do a similar comparison - resource costs are in the CRP resource definitions.  Location in the list can be at the tail end, since we've long since abandoned doing them alphabetically

Also a second thank you   If you need assistance with Github let me know.

One last question on that - if resourceAmount is in liters:

resourceNames =Karborundum;XenonGas;ArgonGas;LiquidFuel,Oxidizer;Water;Chemicals;Mulch;LqdHydrogen;LiquidFuel;MonoPropellant;Oxidizer
resourceAmounts = 600;6000;192000;54,66;600;600;600;6000;120;120;120

Then why are LiquidHydrogen and XenonGas 6000? Based on the variation I made the assumption that resourceAmount represented mass and that tank volume would be equal to resourceAmount * density. LF, O, Mono and LF/O all make sense to me since they're all 120. (or add up to 120)

Edited November 4, 2021 by panarchist

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, panarchist said:

One last question on that - if resourceAmount is in liters:

resourceNames =Karborundum;XenonGas;ArgonGas;LiquidFuel,Oxidizer;Water;Chemicals;Mulch;LqdHydrogen;LiquidFuel;MonoPropellant;Oxidizer
resourceAmounts = 600;6000;192000;54,66;600;600;600;6000;120;120;120

Then why are LiquidHydrogen and XenonGas 6000? Based on the variation I made the assumption that resourceAmount represented mass and that tank volume would be equal to resourceAmount * density. LF, O, Mono and LF/O all make sense to me since they're all 120. (or add up to 120)

Compressed, either for balance or to match stock.  

[panarchist]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Compressed, either for balance or to match stock.  

Makes sense for Xenon gas, and the stock resources, (I remember the 1L vs. 5L stock resource debate) but Liquid Hydrogen isn't compressible. It seems like it should be 600 instead of 6,000.

Regardless, I'll set Liquid Oxygen to whatever the relevant water/chemicals/mulch value is, and will set tankCost to 1.24x the tankCost for LHyd, based on the values in CRP. It's fewer tanks than I first thought, I should be able to get a PR in by tomorrow. Thanks!

[panarchist]

@RoverDude PR submitted: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/pull/134

Now I see why you wanted it added at the end - it's a real PitA to ensure everything is in the correct order. This was fun, it's been while since I've done any dev work, light or not. I QA'd everything in the VAB editor, and verified that the textures matched the selected resource on all resources, and that the max amounts and prices were all correct. It could use a second set of eyes in case I missed anything on the final go-around.

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, panarchist said:

@RoverDude PR submitted: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/pull/134

Now I see why you wanted it added at the end - it's a real PitA to ensure everything is in the correct order. This was fun, it's been while since I've done any dev work, light or not. I QA'd everything in the VAB editor, and verified that the textures matched the selected resource on all resources, and that the max amounts and prices were all correct. It could use a second set of eyes in case I missed anything on the final go-around.

Thank you!

[RookFett]

On 11/4/2021 at 6:48 PM, panarchist said:

@RoverDude PR submitted: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/pull/134

Now I see why you wanted it added at the end - it's a real PitA to ensure everything is in the correct order. This was fun, it's been while since I've done any dev work, light or not. I QA'd everything in the VAB editor, and verified that the textures matched the selected resource on all resources, and that the max amounts and prices were all correct. It could use a second set of eyes in case I missed anything on the final go-around.

ThaNKS!

Edited November 7, 2021 by RookFett

[RookFett]

@panarchist  If you make Oxygen LoX (LO2) - would the cfg for the karbonite distiller have to be changed to output LO2 instead of Oxygen, or would they be considered the same thing?   I am thinking not.

 

New to MM patches - so learning as you go !

Edited November 12, 2021 by RookFett

[panarchist]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:49 AM, RookFett said:

@panarchist  If you make Oxygen LoX (LO2) - would the cfg for the karbonite distiller have to be changed to output LO2 instead of Oxygen, or would they be considered the same thing?   I am thinking not.

 

New to MM patches - so learning as you go !

Output would need to be changed if you want to output LO2 - LOX /LO2 (LiquidOxygen) is definitely different than Oxygen in CRP. I picked LiquidOxygen because LiquidHydrogen is already in MKS and is also used in CRP and several other major mods like Nertea's NF and FF mods. (also Universal Storage II)

If you want to maintain the current Karbonite distiller config, then you could also write a tiny MM patch for a converter to go from LiquidOxygen to Oxygen (for LS mods and such). Not sure if anyone is already doing that, other than possibly TAC-LS, but in real life, O2 is usually stored in liquid form and converted to gaseous O2 via evaporation. (NASA does this, but it's more common the the US armed forces for fighter jets and high-altitude aircraft.  USN stores it in a 10L container which is swapped out after the aircraft lands on the ship and before launching again on a catapult) 

Edited November 15, 2021 by panarchist

[RookFett]

Yup - agree - that O2 should be in liquid form for use in storage - I thought it was strange just to have it as "oyxgen" - 

I remember tripping over all the containers on the carrier  (LOL)...  (nice you used a pic of a F/A-18 - love that plane)

Will ask @RoverDude-  he did mention something about using oxygen in the USI-LS  and want to see the direction he is taking before I start trying to change things.

[panarchist]

13 minutes ago, RookFett said:

Yup - agree - that O2 should be in liquid form for use in storage - I thought it was strange just to have it as "oyxgen" - 

I remember tripping over all the containers on the carrier  (LOL)...  (nice you used a pic of a F/A-18 - love that plane)

Will ask @RoverDude-  he did mention something about using oxygen in the USI-LS  and want to see the direction he is taking before I start trying to change things.

"Oxygen" is used by most of the LS mods, which is why there is a Karbonite "recipe" for it. Some mods like Universal Storage use "Oxygen" with a compressed gas form of storage - which is why US O2 containers hold so much O2. The general direction of the mod makers has been - if it's for propulsion, "LiquidOxygen", if it's for life support, "Oxygen"

[RookFett]

2 minutes ago, panarchist said:

"Oxygen" is used by most of the LS mods, which is why there is a Karbonite "recipe" for it. Some mods like Universal Storage use "Oxygen" with a compressed gas form of storage - which is why US O2 containers hold so much O2. The general direction of the mod makers has been - if it's for propulsion, "LiquidOxygen", if it's for life support, "Oxygen"

That makes more sense now - thanks for the info!

[Dreamanchik]

Im having a weird issue with the newest version of KSP on steam and this mod. After i installed it, it just deleted all my parts from the hangar. from all my tabs. even the mod ones. anyone knows how to fix that?

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, Dreamanchik said:

Im having a weird issue with the newest version of KSP on steam and this mod. After i installed it, it just deleted all my parts from the hangar. from all my tabs. even the mod ones. anyone knows how to fix that?

Which version are you using?  Where did you get it?  Nothing in this mod should be doing this.  But start by making sure you have the latest version from here: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/releases (Bleeding edge is 1.12.x compatible).

 

[Dreamanchik]

7 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Which version are you using?  Where did you get it?  Nothing in this mod should be doing this.  But start by making sure you have the latest version from here: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/releases (Bleeding edge is 1.12.x compatible).

 

oh, i tried to install from CKAN. it seems like the version that is presented here is really old

but the github one worked. thank you!

[RoverDude]

Version 112.0.1 of USI_Core has been released, and the thread has been updated to reflect the updated download location and KSP version supported.  CKAN should also be catching up for those of you who use it.  You can also nab the latest release here:

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/releases

This is pretty much what was in the bleeding edge releases for 1.11, plus a few small tweaks.  Barring any major issues, this is likely going to be the release we stick with for the foreseeable future, as @DoktorKrogg and I are both neck deep in a new indie game we're both working on  

So while we're totally still around and active in the forums and on the USI discord, I would not anticipate any major new USI releases, at least in the short term, though there are still a few major things we both want to knock out (including updating all of the wheels, and some other large system changes).

Lastly, a couple of handy links.  First, the discord server for all things USI (though this also covers our new game as well), and a reminder that I'll be doing a bunch of streaming around game dev (mostly the art side, so Blender, Substance, Unity, etc.). though it's going to be exclusively work on the new game, vs KSP stuff.  

Discord:  https://discord.gg/FNBwUXRgX8

Twitch:  https://www.twitch.tv/RoverDude

Enjoy!  And make sure to let us know if any bees got into the build process.  If so, we'll do a fast follower in a week or two if necessary to update the releases.

[Aelfhe1m]

@RoverDude Great to see these all releasing. One small note - the Catalog link in your signature leads to a web page which still contains the old BobPalmer GitHub repository links rather than the revised UmbraSpaceIndustries ones. You might want to fix those.

[N3N]

On 5/30/2022 at 3:19 AM, RoverDude said:

Version 112.0.1 of USI_Core has been released, and the thread has been updated to reflect the updated download location and KSP version supported.  CKAN should also be catching up for those of you who use it.  You can also nab the latest release here:

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/releases

This is pretty much what was in the bleeding edge releases for 1.11, plus a few small tweaks.  Barring any major issues, this is likely going to be the release we stick with for the foreseeable future, as @DoktorKrogg and I are both neck deep in a new indie game we're both working on  

Enjoy!  And make sure to let us know if any bees got into the build process.  If so, we'll do a fast follower in a week or two if necessary to update the releases.

Hey @RoverDude and @DoktorKrogg,

Thanks for your great work!

Sorry for the maybe stupid question, but where can I find a full changelog?

I have an ongoing JNSQ (+Kerbalism) game and want to check, if it is save to update.

Edited June 1, 2022 by N3N