Delta-V Readout in VAB

[Holo]

Presently, I find building spacecraft in (stock) Kerbal Space Program to do anything more elaborate than go to the Mun incredibly frustrating. This is for one simple reason – I have no idea how much delta-v a rocket has when I build it.

This is fine for short-term flights, such as those within the Kerbin system, since there’s a quick turnaround in flights – I can launch, reset, and launch again. But, as flights get longer, more and more of my time on Kerbal Space Program is spent not actually doing anything other than failing another spacecraft launch halfway to Duna because I didn't bring enough fuel. Without knowledge of how far a spacecraft travels, they tend to be either massively underprovisioned, or massively overprovisioned; both of which are quite bad, especially for career mode.

The solution to this is to put a delta-v readout somewhere, probably in the menu where one can already see the mass and size of the ship though I’m no interface designer so whatever.

[Gaarst]

Already suggested a thousand times, and as always, my opinion is: YES !

[Wjolcz]

Delta V everywhere and all the time.

[davidy12]

Erm... Ever heard of Kerbal Engineer?

[Rath]

Yes please

- - - Updated - - -

Erm... Ever heard of Kerbal Engineer?

Ever heard of people not wanting mods?

[Gaarst]

Erm... Ever heard of Kerbal Engineer?

This is "Suggestions and Development Discussion" not "General Add-on Affairs".

[NoMrBond]

Already a planned feature, while it was planned for 1.0 it was not included because it wasn't ready at the time

No word as yet whether it will be part of the immenent 1.0.5, or slightly further off 1.1 though

[Pthigrivi]

I know they're worried about data overload for new players, but I think it could quite easily be worked into a VAB upgrade. In-flight dV could also be an engineer upgrade.

[Arugela]

I think adding DeltaV for the ship makes it easier for new players. It gives them numbers to look at and compare to help learn the game better. It also helps them check they are doing the math correctly with an in game pre calculated value. Quite needed for new players.

DeltaV is also the easiest number for new players to cruise through the game with without having to learn stuff. As they could alway look at DeltaV charts etc. This gives them time to become as familiar as possible before going into the math. Which could help alot of players.

I think they should do it based on staging and weight. Then you can change the stating to look at different math.. But then we need some better things to help figure out what item is which in the staging. Currently it is very easy for this to become covered up and impossible to determine if there is even a small amount of stacking. It needs some extra more full proof indicators.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Arugela

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I would love a stock DV readout.

[mattinoz]

Yes this is the dangling carrot of "already confirmed" but not actually scheduled for a particular update.

[davidy12]

Okay, KSP is VASTLY improved by mods. If you don't think that mods are meant to be in the game, then why do people mod it hm? (just trying to make a point)

So I'd say just get Kerbal Engineer, it's been one of the most helpful since day 1.

PS: For people who don't play with mods, how do you handle your rocket being wobbly without KJR?

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Okay, KSP is VASTLY improved by mods. If you don't think that mods are meant to be in the game, then why do people mod it hm? (just trying to make a point)

So I'd say just get Kerbal Engineer, it's been one of the most helpful since day 1.

PS: For people who don't play with mods, how do you handle your rocket being wobbly without KJR?

Now, I play with mods. But I don't play with KJR, because I share craft, and I want it to work stock. I have used KJR, and I really like how you need less struts for a given rocket. It may not be realistic, but it is fun. However, personally, I'm okay with strutting my rockets like crazy. That's how I play without KJR.

[Pthigrivi]

PS: For people who don't play with mods, how do you handle your rocket being wobbly without KJR?

Struts. So many struts.

[Wjolcz]

Okay, KSP is VASTLY improved by mods. If you don't think that mods are meant to be in the game, then why do people mod it hm? (just trying to make a point)

So I'd say just get Kerbal Engineer, it's been one of the most helpful since day 1.

PS: For people who don't play with mods, how do you handle your rocket being wobbly without KJR?

Mods were made ever since people noticed there's something lacking in the game.

[fireblade274]

Yes lots of struts indeed. I do use Kengineer for my delta-v, but I would love to see it come stock. It is in my opinion the less mods, the better. I wish i could run it stock but:

KIS/KAS for placing struts in space

Kengineer

Claws stock bug fixes

I wish all these came to stock.

[Holo]

Yes this is the dangling carrot of "already confirmed" but not actually scheduled for a particular update.

Already a planned feature, while it was planned for 1.0 it was not included because it wasn't ready at the time

Hooray!

Erm... Ever heard of Kerbal Engineer?

There are two kinds of mods: mods that add new stuff, and mods that fix missing stuff that should be in stock. I feel that Kerbal Engineer's ÃŽâ€v display falls into the latter category - a failing in stock that needs to be compensated for by downloading an external fix.

People mod Kerbal Space Program to make things, and play things, that fit into those two categories. They want new features that shouldn't or won't be in stock (RSS, weapons), or there's a problem in stock that they need to patch over. If I was more relenting on my stock purism (), I would install KE, but that doesn't mean I'd like doing so.

For problems with wobbly rockets, I use the low-tech solution: adding a lot of struts to everything. Unlike the low-tech solution for not knowing your rocket's ÃŽâ€v (manually calculating everything), this doesn't take five whole eternities that I don't have.

[Frozen_Heart]

Yep. Already suggested a few thousand times and for good reason. dV readouts are absolutely needed in stock.

[Pthigrivi]

That was a bit in jest. I dont mind the wobbliness so much, but it could be tightened up a bit. I tend to split up my modules into manageable chunks and keep under 300 m/s until about 10k. I really only end up using 4 to 12 struts per launch.

[Rfmeijboom]

I never used KJR and I learned to design my Rockets to fly properly with a minimal number of struts.

During my testing I found that the primary source of wobbling comes from trying to move the rocket in the wrong way.

For example, I never use the reaction wheels in the top capsule to change the orientation of the rocket during launch, this is done with fins at the bottom of the rocket and/or thrust vectoring.

The only struts I usually need are between a payload and the lifter inside the fairing, and a few to connect side boosters to the main stack.

As far as Delta-V readout goes, I calculate Delta-V by hand.

To me it would be welcome in stock, but it's not a major problem to me, the formula is too simple to install a mod for that.

[jarmonik]

Presently, I find building spacecraft in (stock) Kerbal Space Program to do anything more elaborate than go to the Mun incredibly frustrating. This is for one simple reason – I have no idea how much delta-v a rocket has when I build it.

Creating such a display is problematic because the delta-v depends on how do you operate the rocket. There is at-least Kerbal Engineer mod that will show the delta-v, but last time I checked the values were incorrect when I planned to jettison a used (empty) fuel tanks two by two instead of the whole engine stage at once. Also, an ability to transfer fuel makes it difficult for a software to read your mind.

Equation to compute a raw delta-v capacity of a rocket is pretty simple:

dV = ISP * 9.81 * ln (Vessel_Mass_With_Full_Tanks / Vessel_Mass_With_Empty_Tanks)

You can create a Excel spreadsheet to compute the delta-v with above equation for every stage separately and then sum the results.

ln() is the natural logarithm. ln(2) = 0.693...

Edited October 16, 2015 by jarmonik

[worir4]

This is needed! How ever to keep it in theme with career mode the number could be given to a number of significant figures. For example a craft that has 4658 m/s delta-v would read as 5000 m/s in tier one, 4700 in tier 2 and 4660 in tier 3 and so on.

[Pthigrivi]

The only struts I usually need are between a payload and the lifter inside the fairing, and a few to connect side boosters to the main stack.

That's basically been my experience, which I don't think is bad necessarily. Sometimes I do wish I could up my average module size though.

[EdusacconBR]

why dont squad make KER stock? XD

[Kaezan]

Creating such a display is problematic because the delta-v depends on how do you operate the rocket. There is at-least Kerbal Engineer mod that will show the delta-v, but last time I checked the values were incorrect when I planned to jettison a used (empty) fuel tanks two by two instead of the whole engine stage at once. Also, an ability to transfer fuel makes it difficult for a software to read your mind.

Equation to compute a raw delta-v capacity of a rocket is pretty simple:

dV = ISP * 9.81 * ln (Vessel_Mass_With_Full_Tanks / Vessel_Mass_With_Empty_Tanks)

You can create a Excel spreadsheet to compute the delta-v with above equation for every stage separately and then sum the results.

ln() is the natural logarithm. ln(2) = 0.693...

The way you operate the rocket can be guessed by searching for the fuel lines start and end plus the staging.

Its obvious that its just a guess but its the best guess you can have.