You really need to fix the joystick routines...

[HolShot]

I watched helplessly as KSP 1.0.4 once again reinitialized my profile because my joystick wasn't plugged in! Why haven't the developers of KSP been able to fix this glaringly, obvious problem?!

We have all payed good money for this software. And, while it's a lot of fun to use, and pretty amazing in its own right in how it makes putting spacecraft into orbit nearly intuitive, all of that becomes totally meaningless when KSP arbitrarily destroys your installation because it simply doesn't know how to handle a missing joystick!

I know how to easily restore my KSP install from the copies I have on my other drive, however I just can't be bothered to do that anymore because I just don't care anymore! So, I've decided to toss KSP onto the reject pile, and will now just concentrate on using Orbit. It's too bad, really, because KSP had so much potential.

Oh well, live and learn...

[Pecan]

As TOTALLY meaningless as Chatterer?

What 'profile' is this of which you speak, and how was your installation 'destroyed'?

Since I don't use a joystick I'm not sure what you mean, and have never had this glaringly obvious problem become glaringly obvious but you probably have a better reason than my own ragequit.

'Bye then.

[sal_vager]

You know an update is soon, right?

Moving thread.

[HolShot]

On 11/8/2015, 8:11:02, Pecan said:

As TOTALLY meaningless as Chatterer?

What 'profile' is this of which you speak, and how was your installation 'destroyed'?

Since I don't use a joystick I'm not sure what you mean, and have never had this glaringly obvious problem become glaringly obvious but you probably have a better reason than my own ragequit.

'Bye then.

Since you don't use a joystick, I'm baffled as to why you felt the need to respond to my post. 

Perhaps it was my errant use of jargon that intrigued you?  Maybe you had hoped that I would wax eloquent on what a profile is?  Or you were curious as to why I seemed a bit hyperbolic in describing it as having been destroyed... yet again?  Surely it could not have been my use of the term "glaringly obvious," as that might have suggested your glaring inability to grasp what I was discussing.  No, I'm sure that's not the case as way too many people around here seem to look up to you; indeed, it would appear that you're no simpleton!

Since none of the above seems to be the case, I can only assume that you were seeking to console me in relating how you, yourself, may have "ragequit" at some point.  You tell me that I probably had a better reason to "ragequit" than you did, however you then neglect to reveal to me what your reasons were for doing so!  Now I ask you, how can we have an intelligent, constructive, and meaningful conversation about our "ragequit" experiences if you won't even tell me why you "ragequit?"  I'm sorry, but I feel that I'm left at a decided disadvantage due to your oversight.

And, "TOTALLY meaningless as Chatterer?"  That must be some inside thing that I'm just not aware of.  I mean, with me having a life outside of these fora, and all, I just don't really have as much time to keep up with all of the things that go on around here.

No matter, version 1.0.5 has arrived so I'll try installing that in the hope that my joystick settings might survive this time around.  But why am I boring you with such nonsense, knowing you don't even use a joystick?  That was utterly rude, and insensitive of me.  Please accept my apology?

'Bye then.

Edited December 3, 2015 by HolShot

[razark]

On 11/8/2015, 6:28:27, HolShot said:

I watched helplessly as KSP 1.0.4 once again reinitialized my profile because my joystick wasn't plugged in!

I've seen references to this several times, and the answer seems quite obvious to me: Why do you keep unpluging your joystick, and if you do, why don't you make sure it's plugged in before starting KSP?
(I'm sure there's some glaringly obvious reason for it, I just have no idea what it is.)

I swear I've been copying my settings file over for quite a few releases now, and I've not lost my joystick settings yet.

Edited December 3, 2015 by razark

[steve_v]

11 minutes ago, razark said:

I've seen references to this several times, and the answer seems quite obvious to me: Why do you keep unpluging your joystick, and if you do, why don't you make sure it's plugged in before starting KSP?

I can think of a reason: Why not?
And another: The bright blue lights on pretty well all peripherals these days annoy the piss outa' me.
I have yet to encounter any other game that is so incredibly lame when it comes to joystick support... and this thing is arguably part flight-sim.
Have you any reasons (besides KSPs shoddy input handling) for not unplugging input devices when not in use? HID hotplug has been around at least as long as USB ya know...
 

Edited December 3, 2015 by steve_v

[razark]

10 minutes ago, steve_v said:

The bright blue lights on pretty well all peripherals these days annoy the piss outa' me.

Tape.  Place it over the lights.  That's what I do in the rare instances that I need darkness.
 

Quote

Have you any reasons (besides KSPs shoddy input handling) for not unplugging input devices when not in use?

Because then I don't need to worry about whether or not they're plugged in whenever I want to use them.  I've got the joystick for KSP or FSX, or I can put that to the side and move the yoke over for different FSX aircraft, or grab my old NES controller for Tetris.  I also have an old joystick base sitting here so I can use the buttons on it for extra functions.  Why bother to unplug them if I don't have any reason to?  I don't unplug my speakers when I'm not listening to music.  I don't bother to unplug the second monitor when I'm not using it.

[steve_v]

Still, question not answered. Why, besides KSPs shoddy input handling, should we have to leave things plugged in? What if I simply don't want a joystick on my desk all the time?
What about those who play on laptops, and may not want to lug an extra input device around all the time?
Poor excuses all, the input problems should be fixed, and arguing that one should "just leave it plugged in all the time" defeats one of the primary reasons for the invention of USB in the first place... without addressing the real problem, which is quite obviously a software one.

Aside: tape wirecutters. Works even better. But still not a good play for leaving things I don't need plugged in and taking up space.

Edited December 3, 2015 by steve_v

[razark]

Response redacted.

Edited December 3, 2015 by razark

[Dafni]

I learned to live with this issue, but it sure is annoying when I forget to plug in my joystick(s) and start KSP. Furthermore the game seems to get confused when I plug the sticks in different USB ports. KSP forced me to get into the habit of assigning ports to devices and not change stuff around.

[jros83]

5 hours ago, Dafni said:

I learned to live with this issue, but it sure is annoying when I forget to plug in my joystick(s) and start KSP. Furthermore the game seems to get confused when I plug the sticks in different USB ports. KSP forced me to get into the habit of assigning ports to devices and not change stuff around.

That's not a KSP specific thing.

If I connect my USB headset+mic in to a different USB port than the one it is in now, Windows 7 acts like I connected a new device.

[Dafni]

Ah, I see, thanks

[klgraham1013]

Those saying it's not a big deal should expect more from the software they buy.  Peripherals being seen as plug and play by both the OS and general software should be expected.  Just as click-through should not be accepted in any program in 2015.

Edited December 3, 2015 by klgraham1013

[Kerbart]

2 hours ago, jros83 said:

That's not a KSP specific thing.

If I connect my USB headset+mic in to a different USB port than the one it is in now, Windows 7 acts like I connected a new device.

You'll need to do some hardcore googling on that, but I remember Raymond Chen of Microsoft explaining in a blog post that there were good reasons for that.

As for the “no biggie:” I don't use the joystick. I tried it a couple of times, and maybe I'm just to much used to the WASD/IJKL operations, or maybe it's due to the on/off nature of rocket-driven steering, I just don't like it. With that out of the way, I find it inexcusable that the program would not start if hardware that is easy to unplug is not available.

In my teaching days I would always use hardware-related issues as examples for exception handling as it would absolutely quash the student's argument but if you thoroughly check your input exceptions wouldn't happen. After all, how can your software prevent the printer running out of paper halfway in a print job?

Depending on your hardware there are some workarounds. My CH Flightstick doesn't work with KSP in the first place, so I have to use the (very flexible) CH Control Manager instead (amazingly KSP can talk with that. Go figure). That delegates the problem of not having a joystick attached to the Control Manager software who, unlike KSP, can handle unattached devices (or being connected to different ports, for that matter)

CH Control Manager is downloadable for free; I'm just not sure if if works with non-CH products as well.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Kerbart
Did some hardcore googling and found the blog post

[Dafni]

6 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

As for the “no biggie:” I don't use the joystick. I tried it a couple of times, and maybe I'm just to much used to the WASD/IJKL operations, or maybe it's due to the on/off nature of rocket-driven steering, I just don't like it.

 Probably a bit off topic here, but I throw this in for the joystick lovers. True, while actually flying your rocket from the pad to orbit, or maneuvering between the celestial bodies, a joystick wont give you much. But when it comes to VTOL landers, or docking (RCS also reacts to proprtional input), or EVA missions and such, a joystick is so much fun and gives you so much more control. Not to mention all the atmospheric flying.

But whatever works for you, of course. Just sharing my experience with this lovely game.

[NathanKell]

While KSP--like most games--will not support plugging and unplugging devices during gameplay, the bugs regarding starting KSP with/without joysticks plugged in leading to reset settings should be fixed in 1.0.5.

[HolShot]

Just to bring closure to this, I've installed Ver. 1.0.5, and the joystick issues I described in my original post above have been fixed.  Thanks, Squad!