Can the "Skydiver" Submarine SSTO actually be built?

[Just Jim]

OK, in 1970 I was 8, and there was this british television show I loved called UFO. There were only 26 episodes, but it was one of my favorites, and I remember it to this day.... unfortunately...

I say that because today I'm Kerballing, and something from that show suddenly popped into my head.... a ship called Skydiver.
She was a submarine with a built in SSTO!!!
The intro says atmospheric, but I very much remember an episode where she went into orbit after a UFO.

Here's the show's intro. Try not to laugh... You can see the Skydiver about 35 seconds in.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sGZWHbyXKs[/URL]

Now I'm not making this a challange, because I haven't done it myself.
I'm not sure it can be done.
I just wondered if anyone would be interested in trying besides me.

Can the Skydiver be built??? Can a small SSTO be launched from the nose of a submarine, and make orbit???

[AbacusWizard]

Probably, but good luck re-docking with the submarine after you return to the surface!

Also, that show looks hilarious.

[Foxster]

Funny thing - that's exactly the first thing I thought of when 1.0.5 came out! Not built it yet though.

Wouldn't be too hard to make a submarine-launched SSTO. Making it look like the one from UFO would be much trickier.

[KerikBalm]

Well, I made myself a SSTO that could land on water (or land)... it uses hydroplanes, and to get it to lift off from laythe, I needed to take the additional step of "deploying" the hydroplanes to lift it out of the water well enough to takeoff.
I found that if I deploy them the other way, the SSTO will sink under the water, once the main wings are under, I can undeploy the hydroplanesand just use it as a dynamic diving submarine.
It operates on land, in the air, in space, on the water, and under the water...

[Secuas]

[quote name='KerikBalm']Well, I made myself a SSTO that could land on water (or land)... it uses hydroplanes, and to get it to lift off from laythe, I needed to take the additional step of "deploying" the hydroplanes to lift it out of the water well enough to takeoff.
I found that if I deploy them the other way, the SSTO will sink under the water, once the main wings are under, I can undeploy the hydroplanesand just use it as a dynamic diving submarine.
It operates on land, in the air, in space, on the water, and under the water...[/QUOTE]

Can you show us it? :confused:

[KerikBalm]

Here's an earlier version, I've since tweaked the wing incidence and the hydroplane positions, and set up an action group for deflecting the hydroplanes + forward canard(deploying them) to lift the thing out of the water faster and get it to lift off.

In this earlier version, I had some real problems getting it to lift off of the surface of laythe (it lifted off easier on Kerbin, but Laythe's thinner atmosphere made things harder even if its gravity was also less)

[img]https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12241293_10104009213191453_3293490752122616720_n.jpg?oh=f64e766e80904db1f352efa3e78ca698&oe=56AC1D46[/img]

When at rest, the hydroplanes and pontoons are submerged, and deflecting them the other way can pull it underwater far enough that the wing will go underwater, at which point it can dive.

It doesn't go very fast, and rapiers are far from the best engines to use for a slow submarine (both in static thrust and in fuel efficiency, although the lower atmo pressure of Laythe makes them a decent choice... still I'd go with a whiplast or panther)... but it *can* dive and operate underwater.

It has significant dV left when achieving laythe orbit... but not much left after achieving kerbin orbit (although it carries significant "dead weight" in excess liquid fuel)... but it still has RCS from the cockpit and mk2 inline docking port parts.

[marach]

[quote name='Just Jim']OK, in 1970 I was 8, and there was this british television show I loved called UFO. There were only 26 episodes, but it was one of my favorites, and I remember it to this day.... unfortunately...

I say that because today I'm Kerballing, and something from that show suddenly popped into my head.... a ship called Skydiver.
She was a submarine with a built in SSTO!!!
The intro says atmospheric, but I very much remember an episode where she went into orbit after a UFO.
[/QUOTE]

No orbit that I remember (and I watched it last year) though it's possible it did a fast climb and broke atmosphere for a bit though... Sky runs on a nukejet and diver has a hydroplane mode as well for rapid travel on the surface which should help out ;)

[cantab]

Should be absolutely possible in KSP. The original Skydiver looks like basically an SSTO docked in front of a submarine. No major trouble doing that in KSP.

In real life it would probably be possible with current technology, but most likely by just launching a rocket vertically from the surfaced submarine. It's unlikely that such a launch approach would be worthwhile either economically or militarily.

[TheSaint]

I LOVED THAT SHOW! :D I had all the toys.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember Sky going into orbit. I think it was only an atmospheric interceptor.

[LostOblivion]

[quote name='KerikBalm']Here's an earlier version, I've since tweaked the wing incidence and the hydroplane positions, and set up an action group for deflecting the hydroplanes + forward canard(deploying them) to lift the thing out of the water faster and get it to lift off.

In this earlier version, I had some real problems getting it to lift off of the surface of laythe (it lifted off easier on Kerbin, but Laythe's thinner atmosphere made things harder even if its gravity was also less)

[url]https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12241293_10104009213191453_3293490752122616720_n.jpg?oh=f64e766e80904db1f352efa3e78ca698&oe=56AC1D46[/url]

When at rest, the hydroplanes and pontoons are submerged, and deflecting them the other way can pull it underwater far enough that the wing will go underwater, at which point it can dive.

It doesn't go very fast, and rapiers are far from the best engines to use for a slow submarine (both in static thrust and in fuel efficiency, although the lower atmo pressure of Laythe makes them a decent choice... still I'd go with a whiplast or panther)... but it *can* dive and operate underwater.

It has significant dV left when achieving laythe orbit... but not much left after achieving kerbin orbit (although it carries significant "dead weight" in excess liquid fuel)... but it still has RCS from the cockpit and mk2 inline docking port parts.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of the crazy ekranoplanes the Russians made during the cold war...

[Just Jim]

[quote name='TheSaint']I LOVED THAT SHOW! :D I had all the toys.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't remember Sky going into orbit. I think it was only an atmospheric interceptor.[/QUOTE]

I thought it did once... but I may be thinking of another show. There were so many campy classics back then.

Still, a submarine jet is really cool!

[Fearless Son]

Wow, that show is like... campy seventies [I]X-Com[/I]!

[Workable Goblin]

[quote name='cantab']Should be absolutely possible in KSP. The original Skydiver looks like basically an SSTO docked in front of a submarine. No major trouble doing that in KSP.

In real life it would probably be possible with current technology, but most likely by just launching a rocket vertically from the surfaced submarine. It's unlikely that such a launch approach would be worthwhile either economically or militarily.[/QUOTE]
SSTO would be very hard, as usual, but multi-stage submarine-based launch vehicles are quite possible. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtil%27]In fact, Russia's done it[/url] ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volna]Twice![/url])

It could make sense from a military perspective as an ASAT weapon or as a secret quick-reaction launch vehicle, although you do have the unfortunate fact that the launch will look like an SLBM...I would strongly advise launching somewhere that wouldn't make any sense.

[Pecan]

[quote name='Fearless Son']Wow, that show is like... campy seventies [I]X-Com[/I]![/QUOTE]

"He has cited the 1970s British television series UFO as one of the influences for the game's storyline" ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO:_Enemy_Unknown[/url])

Alright, hands up all the boys of the time who failed to notice the submarine's crew all wear string vests, including the women. No-one?

[Captain Vlad]

Was about to say...the most important thing you'd need a mod for this on would be the wardrobe.

And if you put Val on a moonbase she'd need a purple wig.

[55delta]

Just found the series two years ago. That '1980s' setting...fiction has always been more wrong than right at predicting the future.
Anyway, I'd think the more difficult thing to re-create from the series would be the air-launched 'moon transport' shown in ep. 2, which must be using quite the nuclear engine.

As for Skydiver, I couldn't begin to guess how much effort it would take to re-integrate the fighter back into the sub after every flight, or if they'd have to send both to port and put the thing back together in dry-dock. As for launching, it would be much easier in KSP, where there's no issue of sudden g-forces risking the pilot during the surfacing and sudden acceleration needed to stay air-born.

Edit: re-watched ep. 3 and was reminded that the aircraft that the moon transport docks with in mid-air is also a VTOL. Gerry Anderson always did love his complicated vehicles. Edited November 20, 2015 by 55delta

[Foxster]

I just (re-)watched the first three episodes. I have to admit that I'm old enough to remember watching them the first time around :blush:. Lots of nostalgia.

The plots are tissue thin and the acting pretty awful but, still, there's something there. There's the weird aliens harvesting organs whilst breathing fluid and some fairly cool craft with features that look like KSP copied directly.

I suppose though my favorite bit was in episode one where the Lt on Moonbase got changed! I don't remember anything else much from the original series but that, yes, we were all talking about that in school the next day!

[Vanamonde]

Making something like this also occurred to me, but I was sure no one else here would be old enough to remember that show. :D

[Geschosskopf]

[quote name='Vanamonde']Making something like this also occurred to me, but I was sure no one else here would be old enough to remember that show. :D[/QUOTE]

Oh, not only do I remember that, but I also remember the 2nd of the original XCOM games, "Terror from the Deep", where all your ships were submersible SSTOs :)

[adsii1970]

[quote name='Vanamonde']Making something like this also occurred to me, but I was sure no one else here would be old enough to remember that show. :D[/QUOTE]

Reading this tread reminded me of some research I came across in the Naval Archives back in the mid 2000s. It was on the Imperial Japanese Navy's I-400 class submarines, as is written [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine"]about in this article[/URL].

Here's the image: [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/I400_2.jpg[/IMG]

It was designed to launch one aircraft with the assistance of a catapult, much what forward artillery observers were doing on our battleships during the war. The planes would return, and the forward crane would haul them out of the water and lower them into the forward hanger, to be prepared for the next mission...

[Just Jim]

I can't wait to try this, but I restarted a career when 1.0.5 came out, and it's going to take a few more days to get the advanced jet techs I want to use.

So I'm going to throw some gas on the fire and share another great show from the 70's, along with another great ship I'd love to build. I don't think it would be terribly hard, but I'd need to do some modding to get it to look right.

The ship is the Eagle lander, basically a lunar VTOL, shown crashing all thru the intro in beautiful Kerbal fashion
And the show was my absolute favorite at the time:

[B][I]Space 1999[/I][/B]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLAsBzOOhLQ[/URL]

[Foxster]

Ah, Space 1999 was kinda OK but I never really got over that somehow the Moon was travelling so fast that it managed to reach another star system each week. It would have had to have been travelling at multiples of the speed of light.

[Pecan]

Nah, I'm out. 1999 always seemed to me to be the commercial-but-even-more-dumb version of UFO.

[Just Jim]

hey now.... I wasn't trying to suggest 1999 was good...
I just wanted to show the Eagle Lander.
I think it's one of the more realistic ships of the time

[Foxster]

[quote name='Just Jim']hey now.... I wasn't trying to suggest 1999 was good...
I just wanted to show the Eagle Lander.
I think it's one of the more realistic ships of the time[/QUOTE]I'm with you there. Nice looking craft. I've seen a couple of attempts at one in KSP, none recently.

One last thought on the series UFO...For the time, it was pretty racially and gender-neutral. Even though the women were oggled at and chatted up by the men they were depicted in positions of responsibility. They (wo)manned the moon base for instance. There were also a lot of blacks and asians in the program, with the captain of the submarine being black. There was even a hint of some inter-racial love interest in an episode or too.

But, boy, was there a lot of smoking and drinking going on!