Does the Maneuver marker on the navball judge by nose or thrust vector?

[SlabGizor117]

I just made my shuttle and I'm wondering for the OMS engines if, when I set up a maneuver, I should aim my nose at the maneuver marker, or above it?

[aluc24]

1 hour ago, SlabGizor117 said:

I just made my shuttle and I'm wondering for the OMS engines if, when I set up a maneuver, I should aim my nose at the maneuver marker, or above it?

Well, ideally you'd want to point the thrust vector to the node - in case the COG happens to be in line with thrust vector. So I think yes, you should aim above.

[ElWanderer]

The node shows which way to apply thrust. If your thrust is offset from the orientation of your "control from here" part, it'll get very confusing. Either angle the OMS engines to fire ahead and add some RCS thrusters or verniers to counter the torque (assuming they don't fire through the centre of mass), or add a small docking port or probe that you can "control from here" and rotate it to match the OMS engines.

[SlabGizor117]

Ok, so the answer is that the maneuver node marker works off of the nose of whatever the craft is being controlled by, and not the thrust vector?(Since nobody really made that clear)

[Snark]

11 minutes ago, SlabGizor117 said:

Ok, so the answer is that the maneuver node marker works off of the nose of whatever the craft is being controlled by, and not the thrust vector?(Since nobody really made that clear)

It's not that the maneuver node works from the nose, it's that the whole navball does.  Whatever your control-from-here part is (a probe core, a command pod, a docking port):  the center crosshairs of the navball indicate where that part is pointing.

The location of the maneuver node on the navball's background texture indicates an absolute direction in 3D space.  It has nothing to do with where your nose or any other part of your ship is facing.

Now, if what you do is to rotate the ship until that maneuver node is centered in the crosshairs, then yes, you've pointed your nose at the maneuver-node direction.  But that's not the positioning of the maneuver node, it's the positioning of the whole navball.

Hmmm... might not be a bad idea to have a little mod that checks whether your engine thrust vector is in line with your control-from-here direction, and adds a little navball icon if it isn't.  That way, if you needed to fly a ship where the two don't line up, you would just orient the navball so that that icon, rather than the crosshairs, is lined up with the node.  The question is, how often that comes up.  I've never flown a ship that had a thrust vector that didn't line up with control-from-here, it's just 1. too confusing, and 2. too easy to avoid. 

 

[Pecan]

3 hours ago, SlabGizor117 said:

Ok, so the answer is that the maneuver node marker works off of the nose of whatever the craft is being controlled by, and not the thrust vector?(Since nobody really made that clear)

No, it's the exact opposite.

The manoeuvre-node indicator says "go this way" and the facing-indicator shows which way you're pointing (according to the orientation of your 'control from here' part).  Nothing at all takes any account of which way your engines point at the current moment, especially as that's likely to change as your fuel burns, if the thrust axis is already off-centre.

[SlabGizor117]

4 hours ago, Snark said:

It's not that the maneuver node works from the nose, it's that the whole navball does.  Whatever your control-from-here part is (a probe core, a command pod, a docking port):  the center crosshairs of the navball indicate where that part is pointing.

The location of the maneuver node on the navball's background texture indicates an absolute direction in 3D space.  It has nothing to do with where your nose or any other part of your ship is facing.

Now, if what you do is to rotate the ship until that maneuver node is centered in the crosshairs, then yes, you've pointed your nose at the maneuver-node direction.  But that's not the positioning of the maneuver node, it's the positioning of the whole navball.

Hmmm... might not be a bad idea to have a little mod that checks whether your engine thrust vector is in line with your control-from-here direction, and adds a little navball icon if it isn't.  That way, if you needed to fly a ship where the two don't line up, you would just orient the navball so that that icon, rather than the crosshairs, is lined up with the node.  The question is, how often that comes up.  I've never flown a ship that had a thrust vector that didn't line up with control-from-here, it's just 1. too confusing, and 2. too easy to avoid. 

 

Quote

That makes more sense, thanks for the help.

EDIT: The crap? Why does this have a quote box when I already quoted what you said?!

Edited December 14, 2015 by SlabGizor117

[SlabGizor117]

1 hour ago, Pecan said:

No, it's the exact opposite.

The manoeuvre-node indicator says "go this way" and the facing-indicator shows which way you're pointing (according to the orientation of your 'control from here' part).  Nothing at all takes any account of which way your engines point at the current moment, especially as that's likely to change as your fuel burns, if the thrust axis is already off-centre.

Quote

You're saying what I said, which is that the neither the navball nor the maneuver node takes into account your thrust vector, so... It's not the opposite..

EDIT: Again, the frick is with this quote system?

Edited December 14, 2015 by SlabGizor117

[Snark]

57 minutes ago, SlabGizor117 said:

EDIT: Again, the frick is with this quote system?

You think that's fun?  Try quoting when you're on a mobile device.  It inserts the quote, then insists on putting anything you type inside the quote box, so it looks like whatever you're typing is something that the guy whom you're quoting said.  And once it gets started like that, there's no way to cancel or delete, you're stuck with it, even refreshing the page puts it right there.

Clearly they've got some major bugs to work out of the quoting system.

[Plusck]

11 hours ago, SlabGizor117 said:

You're saying what I said, which is that the neither the navball nor the maneuver node takes into account your thrust vector, so... It's not the opposite..

It's sort of the opposite if you make any kind of distinction between the navball and the markings on it. The only thing on the navball that is separable from it, is your "pointing this way" chevron.

In an ideal world, a pilot would not have a navball but be sitting in a holographic sphere with the navball (and all its markings) mirrored onto the inner surface of the sphere. That way, the NSEW directions wouldn't appear to be inverted like they are on the navball, and you'd be able to see the back of the navball simply by turning your head.*

Of course, that's what HUDs in military aircraft do. But it would be cooler if it were an actual holographic sphere, no?

 

*edit:  And when you choose a different part to "control from", you simply turn the pilot's seat that way.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Plusck

[Superfluous J]

5 minutes ago, Plusck said:

In an ideal world, a pilot would not have a navball but be sitting in a holographic sphere with the navball (and all its markings) mirrored onto the inner surface of the sphere. That way, the NSEW directions wouldn't appear to be inverted like they are on the navball, and you'd be able to see the back of the navball simply by turning your head.

*cough* NavHud *cough*

[Plusck]

15 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

*cough* NavHud *cough*

Ok, yes that is cool.

[Red Iron Crown]

I've given up on STS-style shuttles for being more hassle than they're worth, but when I was playing around with them I found it really useful to put a docking port somewhere and angle it so its direction matched that of the CoT. That way I could control from the docking port and have the navball make sense again.

[SlabGizor117]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about too.