Roscosmos dissolved

[_Augustus_]

http://www.ibtimes.com/russias-federal-space-agency-dissolved-responsibilities-be-transferred-state-2240831

Well, crap.

There goes Russian participation in ExoMars (besides providing the Protons).

Russia has really been going downhill lately. PTK-NP and the lunar missions were cancelled just a couple of months ago and now they've decided to do this..

[monstah]

"The responsibilities of the space agency will now be transferred to the Roscosmos state corporation, which was established earlier this year"

It never ceases to amaze me how much journalistic/policital language is tailored to "speak" without actually "saying" anything.

Roscosmos the space agency is now Roscosmos the state corporation. Nowhere in the article nothing is mentioned regarding, well, what exactly is the difference and what does it mean to ISS, for example.

[Randazzo]

So, when does Cold War II start?

[RainDreamer]

So now they are a corporation - which mean they work for profit. Also the state might be a majority shareholder now, but if the economy goes down, they might sell those shares to multinational corporations. It is going to be rather interesting. Perhaps this is a way they are trying to encourage private space sector in Russia, or perhaps this is something else. Still have to see what will this means for space science progression as a whole.

[Scotius]

 

Soooo...anyone have any idea what it could mean? Roscosmos the Federal Agency got money from government. Now Roscosmos the corporation is obliged to make profit for the government?

[Randazzo]

6 minutes ago, Scotius said:

 

Soooo...anyone have any idea what it could mean? Roscosmos the Federal Agency got money from government. Now Roscosmos the corporation is obliged to make profit for the government?

I don't think it's about money.

From the article: "The Federal Law aims to improve the management system in the space sector and maintain and develop the space and rocket industry’s scientific and production potential in the interests of strengthening Russia’s defense and ensuring national security."

All else will take a backseat to that bolded portion.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Randazzo

[Frida Space]

Nothing has changed really (aside from an economical point of view which I'm not an expert in and which I don't really care about). They just merged Russia's two biggest companies (URSC) and Roscosmos (the Federal Space Agency) into one, renaming it into Roscosmos (State Corporation for Space Activities).

Russian contributions to the ISS, ExoMars and everything else will continue. It's nothing surprising, they decided it in July -- if it meant cancelling ExoMars or things like that, ESA would have already taken the relevant measures.

If you've been following Russian news lately, you know that they've had many problems... they fired their head at the beginning of the year, I believe. Putin is trying a wide range of solutions to fix the quality assurance problems, corruption scandals and everything else. I hope this new Roscosmos will be better

Edited December 28, 2015 by Frida Space

[PB666]

4 minutes ago, Frida Space said:

Nothing has changed really. They just merged Russia's two biggest companies (URSC) and Roscosmos (the Federal Space Agency) into one, renaming it into Roscosmos (State Corporation for Space Activities).

Russian contributions to the ISS, ExoMars and everything else will continue. It's nothing surprising, they decided it in July -- if it meant cancelling ExoMars or things like that, ESA would have already taken the relevant measures.

Yeah, as long as the west and their fed is willing to put money into the system. Looks like 2020 before US will have a manned launch capability so  . . . . . . .

[Frida Space]

1 hour ago, PB666 said:

Yeah, as long as the west and their fed is willing to put money into the system. Looks like 2020 before US will have a manned launch capability so  . . . . . . .

That's true... Before you posted this I updated my previous post, adding that "nothing has really changed other than the economic side of it, which I'm not an expert in". I'm a pure science person, so I really don't know what this means, but I realize that economics is just as important, if not more, than actual science when it comes to governments

[monstah]

Yeah, manned launch was what I was thinking about, but like I said, the article doesn't lead me to believe much has changed...

[K^2]

45 minutes ago, monstah said:

Nowhere in the article nothing is mentioned regarding, well, what exactly is the difference and what does it mean to ISS, for example.

Basically, easier to embezzle budget money. When you have a federal agency doing the launches, there is no middle man and there is a lot of transparency. When you have a state corporation doing the launches, the later can pad the bill, and cut a kickback to the gov't officials to have that excess approved. Of course, since it's a state corporation, nobody is actually competing for the contract. So there is no chance of being underbid, and no transparency. Everybody wins. Except the tax payers.

[monstah]

1 minute ago, K^2 said:

Basically, easier to embezzle budget money. When you have a federal agency doing the launches, there is no middle man and there is a lot of transparency. When you have a state corporation doing the launches, the later can pad the bill, and cut a kickback to the gov't officials to have that excess approved. Of course, since it's a state corporation, nobody is actually competing for the contract. So there is no chance of being underbid, and no transparency. Everybody wins. Except the tax payers.

Heh. Living in embezzlementcountry myself, I should have seen this coming!

Um, second thought, not really. Government money is the easiest to steal around here

Thanks, anyway

Edited December 28, 2015 by monstah

[fredinno]

I guess they just couldn't resist, huh? Only 20 years or so of being seperate from military and major governemnent interests, then back to that excrements again. The "space agency" portion of this new conglomerate (the other side selling rockets and satellites) I think would just start focussing on Orbital Weaponry and reconaissance instead. 

 

Maybe the DOD would start considering kinetic bombardment as a realistic option? Since the new Rocosmos is focussing on Defense purposes, that's 2 billion dollars (probably slightly less) for that kind of excrements. It would appear to me the DOD would actually have an important reason to launch more excrements - (The Russians have it!) and to build things like the long-wanted Minuteman replacement.

[J.Random]

19 minutes ago, K^2 said:

Basically, easier to embezzle budget money. When you have a federal agency doing the launches, there is no middle man and there is a lot of transparency. When you have a state corporation doing the launches, the later can pad the bill, and cut a kickback to the gov't officials to have that excess approved. Of course, since it's a state corporation, nobody is actually competing for the contract. So there is no chance of being underbid, and no transparency. Everybody wins. Except the tax payers.

Ah, another thread about Russia, another K^2's BS. Dude, it's starting to get old (although still a bit amusing, I'll give you that).

 

Basically, Federal Agency answers directly to specific minister and/or president. State Corporations are under Accounts Chamber's jurisdiction, so now there are potential auditors (elected by parliament) which can and will investigate anything hideous.

[Pwnstarr]

The articles aren't too informative. Wikipedia is actually way more educational about this topic. My read of it is that for a couple years now Russia has been "renationalizing" its space sector by effectively merging NPO Energomash and Energia into the new United Rocket and Space Corp (URSC). URSC is now merging with Roscosmos federal agency to create the Roscosmos State Corporation. I assume this lets Moscow have more direct control over the workings of its space sector. I doubt anything will change immediately on the ground except logos and stationary designs. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Pwnstarr

[Findthepin1]

21 minutes ago, fredinno said:

I guess they just couldn't resist, huh? Only 20 years or so of being seperate from military and major governemnent interests, then back to that excrements again. The "space agency" portion of this new conglomerate (the other side selling rockets and satellites) I think would just start focussing on Orbital Weaponry and reconaissance instead. 

 

Maybe the DOD would start considering kinetic bombardment as a realistic option? Since the new Rocosmos is focussing on Defense purposes, that's 2 billion dollars (probably slightly less) for that kind of excrements. It would appear to me the DOD would actually have an important reason to launch more excrements - (The Russians have it!) and to build things like the long-wanted Minuteman replacement.

Excrements?

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, Findthepin1 said:

Excrements?

Damn autocorrect.

[A35K]

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to something like 'Roscosmos re-nationalised' or something like that,  because currently it sounds rather too sensationalistic, when I read it I interpreted it as 'Russia shutting down space program' which is NOT what is happening.

[PB666]

6 hours ago, J.Random said:

Ah, another thread about Russia, another K^2's BS. Dude, it's starting to get old (although still a bit amusing, I'll give you that).

 

Basically, Federal Agency answers directly to specific minister and/or president. State Corporations are under Accounts Chamber's jurisdiction, so now there are potential auditors (elected by parliament) which can and will investigate anything hideous.

i figure he is correct, someone is going to have a thicker pocket liner because of this. Last call so to speak because its obvious that either private or NASA the west will have a manned launch capability, and the western money will trickle down to zero. 

[J.Random]

@PB666 Someone always gets a thicker wallet as a result of any change in any country of the world. Doesn't mean it's the only intent and purpose^*.

^*It does for K^2**.

**Because it's Russia.

[kiwi1960]

17 hours ago, monstah said:

"The responsibilities of the space agency will now be transferred to the Roscosmos state corporation, which was established earlier this year"

It never ceases to amaze me how much journalistic/policital language is tailored to "speak" without actually "saying" anything.

Roscosmos the space agency is now Roscosmos the state corporation. Nowhere in the article nothing is mentioned regarding, well, what exactly is the difference and what does it mean to ISS, for example.

Watching the 1970's classic BBC's "YES MINISTER" and "YES PRIME MINISTER" it means that they took control away from the scientists and experts and placed it into the hands of Government bureaucrats  .... so now results will not be measured on science gathered but on, initially, cost vs returns.... ie, money. Science might come somewhere but not at the front.

[worir4]

So is this just going to change who signs the contract because I thought from the title that Russia was giving up on space.

[K^2]

I really, really wish we could talk about anything to do with Russian Space Program that doesn't land us knee-deep in politics. Not quite to same extent, I wish the same for other space programs. But fair enough. Consider me off the topic.

[Vanamonde]

Some posts have been trimmed from this thread. Please keep the discussion on-topic, away from politics, and try not to attack each others' nationalities. 

[fredinno]

9 hours ago, worir4 said:

So is this just going to change who signs the contract because I thought from the title that Russia was giving up on space.

It also makes probes less likely, and orbital weapons more likely.