Image of KSP running on a PS4

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Alshain said:

Of course they didn't.  Physics code is handled by the Physics engine, not Squad.  If the 'fastest PC CPU's are struggling.' then 5 years ago when my CPU was made they must have decided to make CPU's slower from then on out... mine does just fine.

Also, if they are in QA, they know how much improvement there will be by now.

Squad did not make changes to KSP to take advantage of the new Unity 5 multi-core physics. Therefore, no multi-core physics improvements. That was the only improvement that was going to make any real difference. And mate, you know full well that the fastest CPUs are seeing very poor performance figures compared to earlier KSP versions. And far below what they are capable of.

If I am indeed wrong please provide evidence. I would be very happy to be PROVED wrong on this.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Majorjim

[Guest]

On January 13, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Majorjim said:

What do you think the three boxes are on the right? The staging ui?

 I am VERY curious to see what has been done in terms of part counts on the consoles. Do you think there will be part count limits set?

I think that's the stock toolbar.  Now, I don't think it's possible to mod a PS4 game, but it may have had features added to make the game a little more useable on it.

[Alshain]

14 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

Squad did not make changes to KSP to take advantage of the new Unity 5 multi-core physics. Therefore, no multi-core physics improvements. That was the only improvement that was going to make any real difference. And mate, you know full well that the fastest CPUs are seeing very poor performance figures compared to earlier KSP versions. And far below what they are capable of.

If I am indeed wrong please provide evidence. I would be very happy to be PROVED wrong on this.

I don't know how to provide evidence of this, but I'm afraid you don't fully understand how this works. Squad does not need to make direct changes to take advantage of multi-core physics.  They need to make changes necessary to work with Unity 5 which made changes to work with multi-core physics.  I'm having trouble describing this, I don't make a great teacher I'm afraid.  The way it works is the code for KSP is somewhat superficial.  It tells the engine exactly what needs doing, and then the engine does it.  So, I remember when Squad said they didn't change anything in KSP for multi-core, that's because technically it already was multi-core, but the physics engine was not.  Now it will be.

As far as CPU's, again I have no performance issues on my 2500k.  It plays just fine, at least without EVE and RealPlume, those do tend to tax the system a bit.  I have a feeling that the performance complains are chiefly from mod users.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Alshain

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Alshain said:

I don't know how to provide evidence of this, but I'm afraid you don't fully understand how this works. Squad does not need to make direct changes to take advantage of multi-core physics.  They need to make changes necessary to work with Unity 5 which made changes to work with multi-core physics.  I'm having trouble describing this, I don't make a great teacher I'm afraid.  The way it works is the code for KSP is somewhat superficial.  It tells the engine exactly what needs doing, and then the engine does it.  So, I remember when Squad said they didn't change anything in KSP for multi-core, that's because technically it already was multi-core, but the physics engine was not.  Now it will be.

Hmm, ok. Why then though did they say they made no changes to 'take advantage of' the Multi-core changes? The language used really seems to say that there are no multicore improvements at all..

[Alshain]

5 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

Hmm, ok. Why then though did they say they made no changes to 'take advantage of' the Multi-core changes? The language used really seems to say that there are no multicore improvements at all..

I think you read it out of context.  The thread I remember where they said that was specifically referring to their own changes, and technically they made no changes to directly support multi-core.. well other than changing the engine, if you count that as a direct change.. the conversation was about what Squad is doing vs. what Unity did.  To be honest, I'm not sure it was even Unity, it might have been Nvidia.  While KSP uses Unity, Unity uses Nvidia PhysX (which is their brand name physics engine).  Unity 5 upgraded the version of Nvidia PhysX from what Unity 4 used, so the multi-core may not have even been directly done by Unity.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Alshain

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Alshain said:

I think you read it out of context.  The thread I remember where they said that was specifically referring to their own changes, and technically they made no changes to directly support multi-core.. well other than changing the engine, if you count that as a direct change.. the conversation was about what Squad is doing vs. what Unity did.  To be honest, I'm not sure it was even Unity, it might have been Microsoft.  While KSP uses Unity, Unity uses Microsoft PhysX.  Unity 5 upgraded the version of Microsoft PhysX from what Unity 4 used, so the multi-core may not have even been directly done by Unity.

Right, I can see how I may be mistaken. I know very little about coding. I guess we will have to wait and see. I still have £50 riding on the developers having to impose part limits on consoles. I am certain of it.

[Alshain]

6 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

Right, I can see how I may be mistaken. I know very little about coding. I guess we will have to wait and see. I still have £50 riding on the developers having to impose part limits on consoles. I am certain of it.

You can have the fastest computer on the planet and there will always be some limitation to what it can do.  That's what drives us (the human race) to create new technology so quickly.

[Ehco Corrallo]

22 hours ago, Alshain said:

Hmm, interesting.  I wonder how many games actually make use of it, they sure haven't advertised it much (FYI, I don't own a PS4).

A surprising amount of games use it as a button (instead of select, which has been replaced by the share button. It typically opens the map. It's better for swiping, but it can almost be used as an analog control (though it takes some getting used to). KSP will probably be the first game to use it with any sort of frequency; SQUAD's going to need all the buttons they can get. (FYI, I do own a PS4)

That said, I'm really excited to see how they implement KSP on console. Especially the controls. It's possible to hook a PS4 controller up to my computer, and it was a real challenge mapping the buttons. That said, once I got the controller to work (notionally) the game worked pretty well. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Ehco Corrallo
Elaborated thesis.

[tomf]

I have seen several threads on here that have concluded that while U5 does support multicore for some physics there isn't anything outside of academic research that supports multithreading for multiple connected rigid bodies of the type that KSP uses.

[Zeon]

I for one cant wait to get KSP for the ps4! Im hoping to convince some of my non pc friends that its worth their money, or i may even buy it for them as a gift i love it so much.

Im interested to see what is done with craft files and if we may have the ability to share things with friends or transfer stock craft from pc to console. Limited mod support on consoles would be glorious, but im not holding my breath on that one as licensing for individual creators property would be difficult to work out through so many intermediaries. Lastly I seem to recall squad having plans for official multiplayer sometime in a distant future.

Who knows what will come of it, but as a hardcore fan I know ill be buying it for console regardless. Lets hope it drops with 1.1 or very soon after.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mister Dilsby]

Clearly that PS4 controller is going to a problem. No one ever tips their lander using a keyboard and mouse, amirite?

[moogoob]

Im better at things like landing when I'm using an analog stick compared to the keyboard. Personally, I use an Xbox 360 controller, and while many controls still need the keyboard/mouse, 95% of the piloting (anything that doesn't need clicking) is done with a controller.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, moogoob said:

Im better at things like landing when I'm using an analog stick compared to the keyboard. Personally, I use an Xbox 360 controller, and while many controls still need the keyboard/mouse, 95% of the piloting (anything that doesn't need clicking) is done with a controller.

I agree the joypad will be great for aircraft and rovers. Building, not so much.

[Eric S]

On 1/13/2016 at 8:36 AM, Majorjim said:

I agree that 1.1 will definitely run better than the current version. It is obvious that PCs have an advantage here and will allow for higher part counts. I know that console CPUs (PS4) are running at 1.6GHZ per core. Now we know unit 5 has support for multi-core physics but Squad have not changed the games code to use this properly.. Squad themselves confirmed this.

 

Squad has said that they haven't done any work to optimize it.  However, in the version of PhysX that Unity 5 uses, multithreaded physics are enabled without action by the programmer, so it will be there.  Whether or not a single craft can benefit from multithreaded physics is a different question.

 

EDIT:  Note to self, read the second page before posting.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Eric S

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Eric S said:

 

Squad has said that they haven't done any work to optimize it.  However, in the version of PhysX that Unity 5 uses, multithreaded physics are enabled without action by the programmer, so it will be there.  Whether or not a single craft can benefit from multithreaded physics is a different question.

 

EDIT:  Note to self, read the second page before posting.

Yeah they say the biggest gain is with multiple craft. I have high hopes for my Tank tracks!

[Engineer of Stuff]

I expect many console gamers to be dissatisfied with this game because it it to "realistic" and hard to play.

[Dfthu]

Now we just need a picture of the Xbox and Will U version.

[Tez613]

Cant you just plug a keyboard and mouse into the console I mean the they all have usb ports right? 

[Majorjim!]

2 hours ago, Tez613 said:

Cant you just plug a keyboard and mouse into the console I mean the they all have usb ports right? 

I believe so. The vast majority will use the joypad though.

[Red Iron Crown]

4 hours ago, Tez613 said:

Cant you just plug a keyboard and mouse into the console I mean the they all have usb ports right? 

They can't require that, though. Needing peripherals other than the standard controller is almost always the kiss of death for a console game (with some notable exceptions). The UI needs to work on the controller for the game to do well, IMO.

[Tex_NL]

NOTHING in the OP images shows a PS4 is actually running KSP. All I see in that image is a screen displaying KSP and a PS controller.

I'll take your word for it that it is indeed as you say but the image itself is not proof.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Tex_NL

[Red Iron Crown]

3 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

NOTHING in the OP images shows KSP is indeed running on a PS4. All I see in that image is a screen displaying KSP and a PS controller.

Just taking them at their word, no reason to think they're lying about it.

 

[Kerbart]

It's amazing how much people can “read” from a fuzzy screenshot and extrapolate what the newest version of KSP is/is not going to do. But then again, that's why we love this forum.

I can see reasons to be suspicious though. Somebody from Squad mastering the game to a level where they can land at the Mun?  I'm surprised no one caught onto that. Suspicious, very suspicious...

On the whole multi-core issue: it seems that the Unity 5 engine can perform physics calculations on multiple cores, so that part comes for free. I suspect that there's also the ability to create multiple physics threads or something along those lines, making it possible to run the physics for multiple vessels in the physics bubble in parallel, for example, and that they're not sinking their teeth into that right now because they have more important fish to catch, like "making the game work" (disclaimer: I have no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to Unity, to be honest. But I can write a line or two of code). So when Squad says they are not writing multi-threaded code it doesn't mean that nothing will be multi-threaded.

Squad's primary concern is likely porting everything over to U5 for starters. And apparently update the UI (either because the U4 interface code doesn't work anymore, or simply because it really needed a workover in Squad's eyes) and a couple of other things, but I'm pretty sure that before anything else they just want it to work. After that they'll probably upgrade the rest of the game, section by section, to reap the benefits of Unity 5.

[Guest]

I'm totally lost trying to play minecraft on ps4. But my nephew, age 10, can fly through the menu's and select tools or objects faster on ps4 than I can on pc. Don't underestimate the console gamer's ability to use the joysticks.

[Halo_003]

On 1/13/2016 at 3:40 PM, idPhobos said:

The DS4 touch pad is very low precision, it's OK for gestures but I wouldn't want to use it as a mouse analog.

I use it with my Surface Pro 4 over Bluetooth all the time. It's not amazing, but it does work out decently enough.