Alien Space Programs - Dev Thread

[Sigma88]

14 minutes ago, MegaUZI said:

Now we need Gilly Space Program, just to bork the landscape and make KSC buggy.

I was thinking more, jool space program

[Evanitis]

2 hours ago, Cetera said:

Do all contracts and general Career playthrough items work as they should?

Playing Laythe Space Program, and yet to face an uncompletable or obviously buggy mission. There are some (tiny) quirks here and there, but those are barely noticable. The Control Center considers my crafts on 60km to be suborbital. But hell it's Laythe - you most likely wont have a problem raising your tourists for another 10km. I didn't get World's First missions pointing to Joolian moons, but I keep getting the usual ones like plant flag, bring science, orbit tourists, rescue sillies, test junk etc.

The difficulty is of course for you to tailor for your needs. You won't get an inetrplanetary multiplier for doing stuff in the Jool SoI. The initial science progression isn't much 'off' from the standard Kerbin career: there are more moons but less biomes on them and on the home planet. You obviously won't use as much funds as on Kerbin, as it takes less to orbit - I'd suggest a ~50% income reduction for keeping the pace as it was in your favorite career setup.

Tylo's multiplier feels a bit too much for science and contract payouts. I mean landing there is obviously hard, but I feel I'm overpayed for flybys and orbits and rescues in it's SoI. I'm yet to get high Jool orbit missions where the moons derail or destroy your targets - but I'd consider these a feature and not bugs.

The interplanetary phase most likely gonna be easy too.. Those lucky Joolian kerbals have Tylo to swing them out, and they can also exploit Jool's mass for a sizable Oberth boost.

 

Now someone should start a 'normal' career on Eve and tell us how it was.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Evanitis

[daniel l.]

This is awesome!

58 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

I was thinking more, jool space program

Actually possible, Just use kerbal konstructs to place a big hovering platform underneath.

[Whirligig Girl]

5 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

I was thinking more, jool space program

This is the part where I say that that's almost certainly impossible, and then the next day you show me a picture of GregSux Kerman standing in front of the Joolean KSC.

[KerikBalm]

My guess is it would be possible to have the fixed structures at 0 elevation on Jool.. but if you miss the runway... down into the abyss where a kraken attacks.... one would have to be very careful, as KSC would essentially be an island. If you don't land back *on* KSC, there is 0 recovery.

Anyway, I tried out duna space program, recovery is much more difficult , SSTOing to orbit much easier. One can unlcok a lot of tech with just a pod and goo bays on the launchpad, so a liquid fueled retrorocket for landing after going up and coming straight back down is fine.

But this mod still has so minor and major issues.

One minor isssue, the KSC doesn't seem to correspond to the actual KSC location for recovery purposes. I landed near the KSC, pretty much walking distance, and when I recovered, it said I was 176km away, and gave me 89% recovery... not a big deal.

I also wonder if it is intentional that the KSC launchpad and runway aren't aligned with east/west or north/south, but somehwere in between - minor.

 

Major: *The atmospheric engine Isp is all wrong* It seems the game is treating 0 altitude on duna as 1 atmosphere for Isp calculations. The pres mat barometer still shows the correct value, but I noticed my swivels were getting just above 270 Isp on launch, they should be getting very close to vacuum values... I hyper edited over to kerbin with a nuke, terrir, thud, and a rapier.... 0 Isp... all of them... as if they were at 15 atmospheres of pressure, not 1. As kerbin's atmospheric pressure is 15x higher than duna's I assume its using "duna sea level" for 1 atmosphere.

I suppose for Kerbin and laythe, this may not be such a big deal as one can use airbreathing engines there, which have a constant Isp across different atmospheric pressures... airbreathing up to high latitude (i suspect one can get to much higher altitudes before airbreathing thrust cuts out, haven't tested), then switch to closed cycle/rockets, and they'll get reasonable Isps.

I found that the only non-airbreathing engine that produce thrust at "Bin" sea level was the aerospike, at 88 Isp and a 4.45:1 TWR

Even the mammoth/vecotor needed to get to about 2km before producing any thrust.

But Eve.... return from eve is impossible, nothing produces any thrust there at sea level - not even the aerospike if playing duna space program.

One needs to go to 9.2km before the Aerospike even has a 1:1 TWR on Eve... the surface of eve is entirely below that altitude. At 8.3 km, the aerospike produces zero thrust... the surface of eve is all below 8.3 km. The mammoth needs to to get to 12.8km before it has a 1:1 TWR

Returning from the surface of eve is *IMPOSSIBLE* in Duna space program.

I imagine that laythe space program has similar issues to a lesser extent (still making an eve return in laythe space program absurdly difficult), and the opposite issues would be present for Eve space program.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

My suggested fix is to redefine the atmospheres of the "home planets" ot have a narrow band of atmosphere at 1 atm at sea level.

As all of duna is above 300 meters, if the atmosphere went from 1 atm to about 0.06atm in 300 meters, nobody would ever notice it, and I think it would fix the problems for Duna Space program.

For laythe space program... and eve space program.... there is a lot of area at exactly 0 altitude. If this transition layer from 1atm to whatever the planets atmosphere "should" be could be made to be only 10 meters thick, I think it would be acceptible and barely noticeable.

People would then get the experience they expect, rather than finding Eve ascents impossible(duna space program), or and order of magnitude more difficult (laythe space program.

Maybe Eve can be left as it is, the higher Isps make getting into Eve orbit not so ridiculously hard, and then the higher Isps at places like kerbin and laythe could offset the problems with getting large payloads to orbit on Eve.

DSP definitely could use some changes.

 

That said, these are very cool mods, I like them, and appreciate the work you've done.

Edited January 30, 2016 by KerikBalm

[Whirligig Girl]

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

My guess is it would be possible to have the fixed structures at 0 elevation on Jool.. but if you miss the runway... down into the abyss where a kraken attacks.... one would have to be very careful, as KSC would essentially be an island. If you don't land back *on* KSC, there is 0 recovery.

Anyway, I tried out duna space program, recovery is much more difficult , SSTOing to orbit much easier. One can unlcok a lot of tech with just a pod and goo bays on the launchpad, so a liquid fueled retrorocket for landing after going up and coming straight back down is fine.

But this mod still has so minor and major issues.

One minor isssue, the KSC doesn't seem to correspond to the actual KSC location for recovery purposes. I landed near the KSC, pretty much walking distance, and when I recovered, it said I was 176km away, and gave me 89% recovery... not a big deal.

I also wonder if it is intentional that the KSC launchpad and runway aren't aligned with east/west or north/south, but somehwere in between - minor.

 

Major: *The atmospheric engine Isp is all wrong* It seems the game is treating 0 altitude on duna as 1 atmosphere for Isp calculations. The pres mat barometer still shows the correct value, but I noticed my swivels were getting just above 270 Isp on launch, they should be getting very close to vacuum values... I hyper edited over to kerbin with a nuke, terrir, thud, and a rapier.... 0 Isp... all of them... as if they were at 15 atmospheres of pressure, not 1. As kerbin's atmospheric pressure is 15x higher than duna's I assume its using "duna sea level" for 1 atmosphere.

I suppose for Kerbin and laythe, this may not be such a big deal as one can use airbreathing engines there, which have a constant Isp across different atmospheric pressures... airbreathing up to high latitude (i suspect one can get to much higher altitudes before airbreathing thrust cuts out, haven't tested), then switch to closed cycle/rockets, and they'll get reasonable Isps.

I found that the only non-airbreathing engine that produce thrust at "Bin" sea level was the aerospike, at 88 Isp and a 4.45:1 TWR

Even the mammoth/vecotor needed to get to about 2km before producing any thrust.

But Eve.... return from eve is impossible, nothing produces any thrust there at sea level - not even the aerospike if playing duna space program.

One needs to go to 9.2km before the Aerospike even has a 1:1 TWR on Eve... the surface of eve is entirely below that altitude. At 8.3 km, the aerospike produces zero thrust... the surface of eve is all below 8.3 km. The mammoth needs to to get to 12.8km before it has a 1:1 TWR

Returning from the surface of eve is *IMPOSSIBLE* in Duna space program.

I imagine that laythe space program has similar issues to a lesser extent (still making an eve return in laythe space program absurdly difficult), and the opposite issues would be present for Eve space program.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

My suggested fix is to redefine the atmospheres of the "home planets" ot have a narrow band of atmosphere at 1 atm at sea level.

As all of duna is above 300 meters, if the atmosphere went from 1 atm to about 0.06atm in 300 meters, nobody would ever notice it, and I think it would fix the problems for Duna Space program.

For laythe space program... and eve space program.... there is a lot of area at exactly 0 altitude. If this transition layer from 1atm to whatever the planets atmosphere "should" be could be made to be only 10 meters thick, I think it would be acceptible and barely noticeable.

People would then get the experience they expect, rather than finding Eve ascents impossible(duna space program), or and order of magnitude more difficult (laythe space program.

Maybe Eve can be left as it is, the higher Isps make getting into Eve orbit not so ridiculously hard, and then the higher Isps at places like kerbin and laythe could offset the problems with getting large payloads to orbit on Eve.

DSP definitely could use some changes.

 

That said, these are very cool mods, I like them, and appreciate the work you've done.

That atmosphere problem would certainly seem to explain some troubles I had on Tekto. I'll look into fixing this error.

Edited January 30, 2016 by GregroxMun

[Yet.another.newbie]

I've started a Eve Space program game in normal career mode (rep, funds, science).  It's challenging!! Had to drive a rover around the KSC to make enough science points to research enough parts to make suborbital. (Delta v of 4,700m/s on too many SRBs). I have only the 1.25m fuel tanks/engines right now, and it looks like I'm going to have to do a lot of tourist suborbital flights to buy enough science to make it to the 2.5m stack. And finally start paying attention to the strategies in the admin building. On the bright side, this might be the push I need to finally start learning how to build decent planes.... need moar science!

 I'm loving the craziness. 

 

[Deadpan110]

Can we has Mission Flags? 

(If I find time and no one has done any before me, I will attempt to contribute some for each of the space programs).

* Currently playing Laythe Space Program - messing about in Sandbox and loving it (I also have OPM installed)!

It would also be nice if someone knows of a simple MM config to move whatever setup a game has for Kerbin clouds in EVE over to Bin without having to manually recreate it (as everyone will likely use different visual configs depending on taste and not all will understand how to do it manually).

Anyways, keep up the great work... Im off to get a colony started on that mysterious 3rd planet with the 2 moons! 

[Yet.another.newbie]

11 hours ago, Yet.another.newbie said:

.... need moar science!

 

New Eve-space-program problem: the contracts don't give quite enough Kredits to compensate for Eve-launch cost. For example. Single, or even two tourists to suborbital missions are invariably loss making. Yup, my space program is losing money... Fast! 

More important problem: a return to the area just outside of KSP garners only 67ish% parts cost return, compared to about 97%ish in Kerbin in the stock game. I think this might have something to do with the fact that the KSC's location coordinates have moved, but the career/contracts engine hasn't picked that up? For example, the early game aerial survey missions -- the ones you get very early in-game close to KSC -- are generated about a quarter the way around the planet. Looks like I have to aim my suborbitals that way, assuming my sounding rockets can get there far!

[moogoob]

I am SO downloading this when I get home. Laythe, here we come!

[Nightside]

Thanks! This will be fun.

Now where are the good flying saucer parts mods???

[Whirligig Girl]

 

On 1/30/2016 at 9:10 AM, GregroxMun said:

That atmosphere problem would certainly seem to explain some troubles I had on Tekto. I'll look into fixing this error.

After having stalled working on this mod for a while, today I will fix the atmosphere thickness bug.

 

EDIT: The fix is released. https://github.com/GregroxMun/Alien-Space-Programs/releases/tag/0.5

Edited February 20, 2016 by GregroxMun

[Ogcorp Squirrel]

Now all we need is to use KERBINSIDE and make all 3 separate launch facilities (The laythe one should be the pre 0.21 KSC in my opinion as i would like that and laythe is perfect for that style of KSC) and cost a ridiculous amount to buy in carrer

[Tangle]

...Just to ask, before I start murdering code in an attempt to be cool trademark copyright elg symbol...

 

How would one modify this to make a KSC on, say, Slate or maybe Dres? 

 

And, for that matter, would it be possible to do something so amazing as to just move the KSC on said world? Or is that still ridiculously buggy? 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Tangle

[Whirligig Girl]

On 2/24/2016 at 3:50 AM, Tangle said:

...Just to ask, before I start murdering code in an attempt to be cool trademark copyright elg symbol...

 

How would one modify this to make a KSC on, say, Slate or maybe Dres? 

 

And, for that matter, would it be possible to do something so amazing as to just move the KSC on said world? Or is that still ridiculously buggy? 

These mods are not particularly modifiable. The premise is basically taking an entire stock planet's configuration and covering Kerbin's with it. For Dres, you'd have to take Kerbin and remove all of its PQSmods and properties and replace them with Dres'. For Slate's, you would take whatever body the template is, replace those characteristics for Kerbin's, and then replace the template's characteristics with the ones from Slate.

Moving KSC somewhere else on the world is as simple as changing the latitude and longitude of the Space Center in the config.

It is worth noting that Thomas P. is working on an update to Kopernicus that, if it works, will allow the moving of space centers to other planets without so much config hassle. Even so, special configs will be needed to make it work, and I shall still be the one to provide it. Science Values, Planet Descriptions, Science Definitions, and even the little piece of config that moves the KSC to the other world, will all still be needed.

[Tangle]

Ah, I see. Thank you! After reading a bit more on it, I realized how much of a pain it is- sorry. 

[Dailey1082]

Scott Manley mentioned a bug where scatterer thinks it's always Kerbin.. is it possible to have a workaround for this?

[Francois424]

Wow I totally miss that in January.

Thanks GregroxMun, I know what I'm doing for the next couple hours.

Eve, here I come !

 

EDIT: as soon as I finished Scott's video I came here.  A big thanks to Scott as well !

On ‎2016‎-‎01‎-‎29 at 4:08 AM, Sigma88 said:

I was thinking more, jool space program

Moho space program for windows to anywhere quickly and strong solar power.
Eeloo space program for that Cosmos 1999 of being alone feel.  Any missions would be hard to do and return from.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Francois424

[Sigma88]

6 minutes ago, Dailey1082 said:

Scott Manley mentioned a bug where scatterer thinks it's always Kerbin.. is it possible to have a workaround for this?

You should try changing the scatterer settings for kerbin to the scatterer settings for the planet you want (Duna or Eve)

[Ingmar]

I'm sorry for this noob question.. but I've put the Laythe program folder into my Gamedata one, though I'm still always on Kerbin when I start the game.

Am I supposed to do something manually? I'm not really sure if the instructions above the download link (first post) are what I am supposed to do, or it is just to mention how the makers managed to make this mod.

I really hope someone could help me!

[Evanitis]

38 minutes ago, Ingmar said:

I've put the Laythe program folder into my Gamedata one, though I'm still always on Kerbin when I start the game.

That's where it should be. Did you install Kopernicus and the Module Manager? The op states that both are required too. Download links there.

[Ingmar]

20 minutes ago, Evanitis said:

That's where it should be. Did you install Kopernicus and the Module Manager? The op states that both are required too. Download links there.

Yes I did. Maybe I should update them? I did notice that whenever I click on the Tracking Station I always get a view of Laythe, and current pods orbiting Kerbin now says: "Orbiting Laythe". So some things did change, but the KSC is still on Kerbin.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Ingmar
extra information

[Evanitis]

23 minutes ago, Ingmar said:

Maybe I should update them?

Probably. Though I'm genuinely clueless what's going on at your install. I never had such problems.

[Ingmar]

8 minutes ago, Evanitis said:

Probably. Though I'm genuinely clueless what's going on at your install. I never had such problems.

I updated Kopernicus and it's all fixed. Thank you for your time and help!

[Whirligig Girl]

13 hours ago, Dailey1082 said:

Scott Manley mentioned a bug where scatterer thinks it's always Kerbin.. is it possible to have a workaround for this?

You could try swapping the planet names around for the scatterer configs. Maybe I'll prepare a couple of configs once I've got everything else working properly.