A ninth planet?

[fredinno]

4 hours ago, Findthepin1 said:

IIRC it's always inside the sun. 

Not always: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter#Inside_or_outside_the_Sun.3F

It's not consistenly out of the SUn, though, so it's not binary.

[kunok]

New indices of this planet. The tilt of the sun could be explained with the nine planet http://www.caltech.edu/news/curious-tilt-sun-traced-undiscovered-planet-52710

[Green Baron]

Another hint in favour of a "perturber" of the trans neptunians:

https://academic.oup.com/mnrasl/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/mnrasl/slx003

Just because the observatory up on the hill here was involved :-)

Compressed version: objects that are so far away (hundreds of au from the sun) that they cannot be gravitationally influenced by Neptune, but have a highly eccentric orbit, are likely to be/have been influenced by a "perturber".

[kerbiloid]

On 21.10.2016 at 0:21 AM, kunok said:

The tilt of the sun could be explained with the nine planet http://www.caltech.edu/news/curious-tilt-sun-traced-undiscovered-planet-52710

If 99.8% of solar system have been disturbed, how can we have other planets on their orbits.

[kunok]

Just now, kerbiloid said:

If 99.8% of solar system have been disturbed, how can we have other planets on their orbits.

Remember that the sun has 99,8% of the mass but less than 1% (I think is a lot smaller but don't recall the number) of the angular momentum of the solar system.

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, kunok said:

Remember that the sun has 99,8% of the mass but less than 1% (I think is a lot smaller but don't recall the number) of the angular momentum of the solar system.

Yes, Jupiter has almost all of it, Saturn - most of the rest.
But if a Sun companion is enough massive to tilt the Sun, how could it escape from the planet movement equations (known enough well, though not so well explained)?
Probably, then not in the trans-eeloo photos it should be searched, but just in harmonics of Fourier transform of the planet perturbated equations.
And as this companion should be resonant with the Sun rotation, there would be harmonics with frequencies corresponding to the same periodic factor,

The most full and described set of these equations I've met in this book
https://www.springer.com/us/book/9783540672210

Edited February 18, 2017 by kerbiloid

[Scotius]

So, interactions between bodies of the "inner" Solar System could have similiar effects on trans-Neptunian obiects to the effects of existing 9-th planet? Did i understand that right? That would explain the discrepancy of detected perturbations despite our inability to find actual culprit. Interesting.

[kerbiloid]

I guess, if the outer body has enough mass to rotate the Sun (well, a little), it should be enough large to perturbate much lighter bodies orbits.
Otherwise it';s strange: Sun is disturbed, Kuiper is disturbed, but in between there is nothing.
And as the Sun tilt probably would mean a resonance between the solar rotation and the companion orbital movement, probably there would be orbital resonances with the orbits of planets, with the same period of the effecting factor.
And Fourier is exactly what's used to filter out such frequencies.

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by kerbiloid

[memes in space]

On 1/20/2016 at 0:10 PM, Spaceception said:

Caltech researchers may have found a ninth planet (Which may be a Super-Earth): http://www.caltech.edu/news/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-real-ninth-planet-49523

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/01/150119-new-ninth-planet-solar-system-space

Caltech is in California.

Where "according to the state of California, every material on the planet causes cancer or birth defects"

Is this the best place to get science?

[Green Baron]

 

The planet nine thing is no bogus. Many people are working on it and a a lot of serious papers have been written about it. Up to now it has been postulated as a perturber in the outer solar system that might well be responsible for the otherwise unexplained orbits of dwarf planets in the kuiper belt and could explains other observations as well. Direct observation is difficult, maybe impossible with current generation telescopes because it is very far out (100s of AUs with an orbital period of ~20.000 years). Mass and orbital parameters have been estimated. It is, probably, only a question of time until it gets "discovered".

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Green Baron

[memes in space]

1 hour ago, Green Baron said:

~20,000 years

I assume this is what you meant?

They're right next to each other but I didn't think you'd go to the thousandths when all the decimals are zero anyways.

[Steel]

11 minutes ago, memes in space said:

I assume this is what you meant?

They're right next to each other but I didn't think you'd go to the thousandths when all the decimals are zero anyways.

In Europe (though strangely not here in the UK) and probably some other places too they use decimal points to denote thousands and commas to donate decimals

Edited February 19, 2017 by Steel

[memes in space]

1 hour ago, Steel said:

In Europe (though strangely not here in the UK) and probably some other places too they use decimal points to denote thousands and commas to donate decimals

Things UK is right on:

Symbols for place value

Metric system

 

Things UK is wrong on:

the name of soccer

what side of the road to drive on

how to pronounce "z (zee)"

And the list goes on..

 

Alright cool

Edited February 19, 2017 by memes in space

[Green Baron]

2 hours ago, memes in space said:

I assume this is what you meant?

They're right next to each other but I didn't think you'd go to the thousandths when all the decimals are zero anyways.

Thanks, @Steel, yes, i meant twenty thousand years, thought that would be clear at a distance of several hundred AUs ... :-)

20 years orbital period is somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn.

:-)

Edited February 19, 2017 by Green Baron

[Steel]

2 hours ago, memes in space said:

Things UK is right on:

Symbols for place value

Metric system

 

Things UK is wrong on:

the name of soccer

what side of the road to drive on

how to pronounce "z (zee)"

And the list goes on..

 

Alright cool

We don't even use the metric system properly, we still use miles for speeds and distances (despite the fact that very few people under 30 or so could actually tell you how far a mile is)

As for football... anyone who want to see my thoughts on that one can click the spoiler below, I'm not going to clutter up a thread on Planet 9 with it 

Spoiler

Football vs "Football":

Football - what some (i.e Americans) would wrongly call soccer - is a game that can trace its basic root back thousands of years and was popularised in England from the middle ages, a time where many of the rules started to emerge. It is a game played almost exclusively with the feet, which makes sense for a game called football, as well as occasional use of the head and chest.

American "Football" - A game developed less than 200 years ago with the majority of its rules derived from a completely different English sport: Rugby. The game is played predominantly with the hands (!!!). The ball must be taken (in the hands!) into the opponents scoring zone to score maximum points (like a try in rugby) which can then be "converted" by a kick over the posts for bonus points (again, rugby). Alternatively, the ball may kicked over the posts in active play for a smaller score (a la rugby). Note that in AF the feet are only used for kicking to score goals or to punt upfield after an unsuccessful period of offense. Originally in AF forward passing was illegal (like it is still in rugby). Players must prevent the movement of the opposition players by making tackles (you see where I'm going with this).

So surely the name Football makes sense for a game played with the feet, and that American Rugby would be a much better name for you're weird American game? No?

 

Extra fun fact: American football isn't even a very good game to watch if you enjoy actually seeing play. An typical NFL game (four 15 minute quarters with breaks in between) lasts around three and a quarter hours, with a grand total of 11 minutes of the ball actually being in play. That's it. bear in mind that there are, on average 17 minutes of replays in the same game and you get an idea of how little actually happens! On the other hand, a football match (two 45 minute halves with a 15 minute break at half time) lasts on average around 110 minutes (one hour fifty minutes) and features about 70 minutes of the ball being in play. A rugby game (two 40 minute halves with a 10 minute half time break) lasts for a similar amount of time and features around 60-65 minute of the ball being in play.

Anyway, so from what I can see of this new Planet 9 stuff, theres a little more evidence of it's existence from some people who are looking really hard to signs, but there's still nothing anywhere near concrete?

Edited February 19, 2017 by Steel

[Green Baron]

1609 meters.

Only indirect evidence, but concrete (didn't know that this is an adjective as well, always thought of construction material :-)) enough to postulate it's approximate mass and orbit.

Discovery could take until the next generation of telescopes is working.

 

[YNM]

Off/T : Well the reason why scientifically 1609,67 (or 1609.67; better still, 1.60967 x 10^3) is more preferred is that : no confusion between thousands and fractions

On : Ninth planet would need a new sensor to detect it IMO. JWST might be up to the job ?

[Zerxal]

Possibly, because of the gravity fluctuation, it would be a superearth. But, it could just be a clump of highly dense  rocks.

[munlander1]

1 hour ago, PhysicsBrain said:

Possibly, because of the gravity fluctuation, it would be a superearth. But, it could just be a clump of highly dense  rocks.

Kerbin 

[Green Baron]

On 20.2.2017 at 5:44 PM, YNM said:

 JWST might be up to the job ?

 

Not big enough i'd say. Needs moar surface area. I put my bet on one of the large terrestrials like GMT, E-ELT, TMT, LSST with a new generation of adaptive and active optics. They will be quasi as good as a space telescope of the same size and definitely worth the diameter, resolution wise i mean.

 

E-ELT with a diameter of almost 40m and a main mirror focal ratio of ~0.9 will be one nasty photon-collector.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Green Baron

[YNM]

44 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

Needs moar surface area. I put my bet on one of the large terrestrials like GMT, E-ELT, TMT, LSST with a new generation of adaptive and active optics. They will be quasi as good as a space telescope of the same size and definitely worth the diameter, resolution wise i mean.

 

... None of which can capture high-quality IR images. Surface area is not the only way.

 

WISE is waay smaller that JWST or all the thing you mentioned, yet people are using it for searching the object ? Under your thinking, it'll be ridiculous.

So do I, to be honest.

[Green Baron]

... oh, well, none of those can capture any image at all right now :-))

E-ELT is planned to have a superb infrared instrumentation. I hope Planet Nine a) exists and b) radiates or reflects enough to be detectable.

[YNM]

3 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

E-ELT is planned to have a superb infrared instrumentation. I hope Planet Nine a) exists and b) radiates or reflects enough to be detectable.

Assuming planet nine will be around 100 K, the peak wavelength will be in FIR. They'd have to be in stratosphere at least, like this one.

Well JWST is not planned for FIR actually !

Edited March 4, 2017 by YNM

[insert_name]

another zooniverse project dedicated to finding planet 9 https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/skymap/planet-9/classify

[insert_name]

4 candidates! Hype! 

https://m.phys.org/news/2017-03-unknown-planet.html