[1.2 - 1.4] Real Scale Boosters, 0.16 (2018-03-12)

[Phineas Freak]

1 hour ago, NecroBones said:

I suspect it might have to do with the shuttle SRBs being an older design (technically speaking) and also having a lot of features that other boosters might not. They have recovery equipment and guidance in the nose cones, gimbal hydraulics, etc, and are designed to be refurbished and reused.

Yes, that is good reason for the disparencies. The Shuttle SRM is a '70s design and the one from Orbital is relatively new (since there is a whole line of RSRMs, from 1 to 5 segments).

[NecroBones]

2 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Well jeez, there's not much point in doing them then, huh? I tried. :l

Yeah, I had no idea anyone else was working on it until I was tagged in that.

----

I've had some time to get back to some modeling, so I did a couple of things so far this week. I split out the Centaur's RCS thrusters and spheres to separate models (so they can be separately repositioned when squishing the tank with MM patches). I also went back to the Delta IV DCSSs and split the equipment platforms out as well, so those.

 

Also started on the Ariane V a little bit (I still have a lot more detailing to do at the bottom, but I want to fit it to the engine, so the engine needs to come first):

 

 

[VenomousRequiem]

11 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

Yeah, I had no idea anyone else was working on it until I was tagged in that.

----

I've had some time to get back to some modeling, so I did a couple of things so far this week. I split out the Centaur's RCS thrusters and spheres to separate models (so they can be separately repositioned when squishing the tank with MM patches). I also went back to the Delta IV DCSSs and split the equipment platforms out as well, so those.

 

Also started on the Ariane V a little bit (I still have a lot more detailing to do at the bottom, but I want to fit it to the engine, so the engine needs to come first):

 

 

Every single mod I've seen fails to add the upper stage for the Ariane 5... Please don't be another one of those guys.

Looks nice though, yo. Do you need any help with modeling? I'd love to contribute!

[LeoBlueSpikes]

Is it compatible with realism overhaul?

[VenomousRequiem]

47 minutes ago, LeoBlueSpikes said:

Is it compatible with realism overhaul?

Not quite yet, I don't think, but it will be.

[Pappystein]

11 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@Felbourn @NecroBones OK, now i understand. I was confused because Orbital ATK also has a 4 segment SRM in the exact same form as the Shuttle one but it has a lower inert mass and more propellant.

That is probably the Titan IVB SRMU.   ATK Purchased Hercules Aerospace in 1995 half way through he SRMU production run.   And no, I have not seen a SRMU model yet for KSP (I am currently re-using FASA's UA-1207 "Titan White SRB" model for the SRMU in my personal configs.)   Crap tons more fuel than the UA-12xx series, Much lower overall weight (Carbon Fiber instead of metal.)

 

 

 

[VenomousRequiem]

1 minute ago, Pappystein said:

That is probably the Titan IVB SRMU.   ATK Purchased Hercules Aerospace in 1995 half way through he SRMU production run.   And no, I have not seen a SRMU model yet for KSP (I am currently re-using FASA's UA-1207 "Titan White SRB" model for the SRMU in my personal configs.)   Crap tons more fuel than the UA-12xx series, Much lower overall weight (Carbon Fiber instead of metal.)

 

 

 

There's some pretty nice Titan parts, including the SRMU in BDB!

[Pappystein]

8 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Yes, that is good reason for the disparencies. The Shuttle SRM is a '70s design and the one from Orbital is relatively new (since there is a whole line of RSRMs, from 1 to 5 segments).

RSRM is any Shuttle SRB post 25th flight.   (Per Links posted already by Felbourn)

Sorry for the poor "SRM family tree" below but this is the evolution of the "SRM" as I understand it.

 

                                        United Technologies UA-12xx Series and UA-156 series

                                            |                              |

                                            |             Thiokol SRM Series 1 for Space Shuttle

                                            |             Thiokol SRM Series 2 for Space Shuttle (used in most of the first 25 STS missions)

                                            |                     Challeger Explosion

                                            |               Thiokol RSRM  (Structurally Beefed up SRM series 2 with new O-Ring design (please note that atleast part of one of the Final RSRMs to fly the shuttle had parts

                                                                                                                   from the ORIGIONAL SRM-1  from STS-01 (Columbia's first flight)

                                            |                       /       |

                                            |                    /          |

                                        Hercules SRMU (Replacement for the UA-1207 SRB on Titan IV)  Newest US made  Large Scale SRB (Technology and Design wise.)

                                                                           |

                                                           ATK-Thiokol/Orbital-ATK RSRM of various Segment count (Basically same RSRM as Space Shuttle, not a New Design and not new technology.)

 

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Pappystein
Formatting

[NecroBones]

 

 

Yeah, the shuttle SRBs underwent a lot of evolution. That's something I'm running into with almost all of the rockets in this pack too. Since things change over time, I have to pick some reasonable numbers from somewhere in the timeline. Usually I'm going with some of the more recent numbers, but sometimes it ends up being more average.

 

16 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Every single mod I've seen fails to add the upper stage for the Ariane 5... Please don't be another one of those guys.

Looks nice though, yo. Do you need any help with modeling? I'd love to contribute!

Heheh, maybe I should leave something else out instead, just to be different? Actually, what would be funny (though I wouldn't do this) would be to have all of the Ariane parts unlock at once, except the upper stage, which requires an expensive tech node unlock (maybe 10,000 science). Or something. lol.

 

Actually the kind of stuff that would be super useful, aside from RF/RO/RP-0 configs, would be a sensible list of career pricing for the parts and their unlocks. Right now all the prices are placeholders.

 

14 hours ago, LeoBlueSpikes said:

Is it compatible with realism overhaul?

 

As others have noted, not yet, but that is the goal.

----

 

More detailing to work on, etc, but this was a fun little test of the Ariane V first stage:

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by NecroBones

[VenomousRequiem]

What, did you just sit it on the launch pad and let it loose? 

[KerbonautInTraining]

21 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

More detailing to work on, etc, but this was a fun little test of the Ariane V first stage:

 

What was the TWR in that configuration? I'd imagine it's pretty darn low.

[NecroBones]

41 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

What, did you just sit it on the launch pad and let it loose? 

 

26 minutes ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

What was the TWR in that configuration? I'd imagine it's pretty darn low.

 

Yeah, the TWR was less than 1, but I wanted to see the engine working (without rigging up something else to test it), so I just tried to "gently" tip the rocket over without it exploding. Once down on the ground, it slid along the crawler track, and into the VAB. The impact against the building destroyed the probe core, so it just stayed there, thrusting against the VAB doors.

 

[NecroBones]

No nose cones yet, but the SRBs are starting to come together.

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Sierra]

Those are ..... big. Very big.

[VenomousRequiem]

Yes please... please make at least one of the upper stages. There's a lot but please god at least include one.

[NecroBones]

I can see what looks like separation SRM nozzles on the SRB nose cones (Ariane V). Anyone have a quick link to some data on the thrust, propellant mass, ISP etc for these?

Edited February 11, 2016 by NecroBones

[Felbourn]

Ariane 5 is one of my top three favorite launchers, with Atlas V and Proton.

http://spaceflight101.com/spacerockets/ariane-5-eca/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/arie5eca.htm

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/West_Europe/Ariane-5/Description/Frame.htm

http://andegraf.com/rockets/ariane5.htm

Edited February 11, 2016 by Felbourn

[NecroBones]

4 minutes ago, Felbourn said:

Ariane 5 is one of my top three favorite launchers, with Atlas V and Proton.

http://spaceflight101.com/spacerockets/ariane-5-eca/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/arie5eca.htm

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/West_Europe/Ariane-5/Description/Frame.htm

http://andegraf.com/rockets/ariane5.htm

Yeah, I've been looking at most of those and they don't seem to say anything about the separation motors.

 

[Felbourn]

Ah crap I read it wrong and thought you wanted EAP stats. That said... one of those links DOES have the stats. I just did not need to link all the others things to dilute my answer.

Here we see it has 16 thrusters: https://nammo.com/what-we-do/rocket-motors/space-applications/ariane/ 

There are 4 at top, 4 at bottom: http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Launchers/Launch_vehicles/Boosters_EAP

They are angled ~45+ degrees to avoid the core: http://www.esa.int/spaceinvideos/Videos/2013/06/Sterex_images_of_ATV-4_launch

They are 18.9 kg of HTPB per motor, firing for 0.5 seconds, at 66-73 kN (a burst thrust curve).

[fairy]

Speaking of Ariane 5. Liquidhype seems to have some really good models of the different configurations up on Sketchfab. I believe you can see the sep motors and ullage(?) thrusters on the models. There was also Atlas V HLV/SHLV uploaded literally 5 minutes ago 

[Felbourn]

Oh and if I did my math right* the Isp is probably something like 187.5 at its separation altitude, so maybe 188 vacuum.

* (66+73)/2/(18.9/0.5)/9.80655*1000

[NecroBones]

Sweet, thanks guys.

 

So far I've been ignoring separation motors on the lower skirts of the various solid rockets, since they can't be staged separately if they're built into the same part. But I may make radially-attached ones for that later. This of course is partially made up for by having separation charge and thrusters in the decouplers.

[NecroBones]

No engine for the second stage yet, but I have the the beginnings of the second stage (ESC-A variant as the inspiration), with equipment bay integrated (theoretically).

 

 

[Felbourn]

You'll be a superhero if you include a Sylda too.

 

[VenomousRequiem]

Do you think there's any real-scale probe parts to match mods like these?