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[WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

akron

By akron
in KSP1 Mod Development

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Deimos Rast

Deimos Rast

Posted
Posted

I was thinking some more (always dangerous!) about your RTGs. I've mentioned in the past (I think I did) how neat it would be if they changed their thermal properties when they extended.

The good news is I think I figured out how to do it... the bad news is I think it requires Deadly Reentry. DRE makes use of a "ModuleAnimation2Value" (which is the only place I've seen it, so it's probably proprietary), where an animation played has the effect of changing a value, in the case below, maxTemp, as the solar panels shed their protective shroud.

Starwaster is the man behind DRE and the one you'd want to talk to if you're curious to know more. At the very least, shouldn't be too hard to make a patch for someone who uses DRE to get some nifty mechanics (I don't use it at the moment, otherwise I'd give it a go).

Cheers.

 

  

	MODULE
	{
	    name = ModuleAnimation2Value
	    animationName = solarpanels2
	    valueName = maxTemp
	    valueCurve
	    {
	        key = 0.0	2000
	        key = 1.0	1523.15
	    }
	}

 

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Starwaster

Starwaster

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

I was thinking some more (always dangerous!) about your RTGs. I've mentioned in the past (I think I did) how neat it would be if they changed their thermal properties when they extended.

The good news is I think I figured out how to do it... the bad news is I think it requires Deadly Reentry. DRE makes use of a "ModuleAnimation2Value" (which is the only place I've seen it, so it's probably proprietary), where an animation played has the effect of changing a value, in the case below, maxTemp, as the solar panels shed their protective shroud.

Starwaster is the man behind DRE and the one you'd want to talk to if you're curious to know more. At the very least, shouldn't be too hard to make a patch for someone who uses DRE to get some nifty mechanics (I don't use it at the moment, otherwise I'd give it a go).

Cheers.

 

  


	MODULE
	{
	    name = ModuleAnimation2Value
	    animationName = solarpanels2
	    valueName = maxTemp
	    valueCurve
	    {
	        key = 0.0	2000
	        key = 1.0	1523.15
	    }
	}

 

Correct, ModuleAnimation2Value is part of Deadly Reentry

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akron

akron

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Posted
5 hours ago, Virtualgenius said:

Awesome job maybe a small engine if your looking for suggestions

This next patch, BETA 14 is going to add engines and RCS systems

4 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

I was thinking some more (always dangerous!) about your RTGs. I've mentioned in the past (I think I did) how neat it would be if they changed their thermal properties when they extended.

The good news is I think I figured out how to do it... the bad news is I think it requires Deadly Reentry. DRE makes use of a "ModuleAnimation2Value" (which is the only place I've seen it, so it's probably proprietary), where an animation played has the effect of changing a value, in the case below, maxTemp, as the solar panels shed their protective shroud.

Starwaster is the man behind DRE and the one you'd want to talk to if you're curious to know more. At the very least, shouldn't be too hard to make a patch for someone who uses DRE to get some nifty mechanics (I don't use it at the moment, otherwise I'd give it a go).

Cheers. 


	MODULE
	{
	    name = ModuleAnimation2Value
	    animationName = solarpanels2
	    valueName = maxTemp
	    valueCurve
	    {
	        key = 0.0	2000
	        key = 1.0	1523.15
	    }
	}

 

This looks good! I guess the idea is that the RTGs are hotter if they are left close to the spacecraft? I will check this out as well. I do not mind making a DRE patch!

2 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Correct, ModuleAnimation2Value is part of Deadly Reentry

Thanks, @Starwaster! That module looks very juicy! Any chance that it can be released as a stand-alone?

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Jeb1969

Jeb1969

Posted
Posted (edited)

I seriously really love the new science parts the parts look absolutely tremendous, not to mention they function tremendously as well, speaking of Science I came up with several Ideas for some more parts:

MMS: Microwave Mass Spectrometer: Measures a planet or moon's reflection of Microwave Radiation, Disclaimer: Warranty is voided if Used to heat up snacks or leftover casserole :P (a little nod to Half-Life)   

XMS: X-Ray Mass Spectrometer: Contrary to it's near festive acronym this device measures the reflection of X-rays emanating from a celestial body: Side effects include: Being able to see through walls and skin, possible tumors, and in some patients super powers may be gained. Ask your doctor if XMS is for you. :D

GAPS: Gaseous Atomic Particle Separator: No it is not the next big thing in affordable fashion next to the quadcopter kiosk. GAPS or the Gaseous Atomic Particle Separator is designed to analyze atmospheric gas by sampling the gas and sorting the various compounds within the sampled gas by giving a percentage. When Kerbal astrophysicists, developed the instrument, they feared that if one of them broke wind the device would be able to pick up who dealt it. :P (Personally I see this part added when lander parts get implemented, but what ever seems most logical) 

Edited by Jeb1969
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akron

akron

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33 minutes ago, Jeb1969 said:

I seriously really love the new science parts the parts look absolutely tremendous, not to mention they function tremendously as well, speaking of Science I came up with several Ideas for some more parts:

MMS

XMS

GAPS

Thank you! I appreciate the support!

MMS: I will study Microwave science a little more. I think @CobaltWolf suggested it before as well. This sounds like a good one to add!

XMS: This one looks a lot like @DMagic's Diffraction Surface Analyzer which is essentially a X-Ray spectrometer with a built-in sample drill. I can look into this as well, but will likely end up using DMagic's experiment instead since they would be so similar.

GAPS: This again, sounds very similar to the stock Atmospheric Fluid Spectro-Variometer. I can make my own model for it with a new animation, but would prefer not to duplicate the experiment. I do have a weather station planned for GroundOps. I could add more functionality to it to include GAPS.

I will have a second wave of science parts for ProbesPlus, probably BETA 15 or 16. This will include the SCANSat parts, the remaining stock science, and some more of DMOS experiments. Other suggestions may get moved to GroundOps instead.

~Cheers

Edited by akron
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DMagic

DMagic

Posted
Posted

The powder X-Ray diffractometer in my set is used to study the exact mineral composition of surface samples.

I'm not really sure what an X-Ray Mass Spectrometer, mentioned by @Jeb1969, is. An Alpha particle X-ray spectrometer is used to study surface composition also, though the method is completely different, and doesn't really have anything to do with measuring mass. It is more in line with Curiosity's ChemCam, in that it provides an estimate of elemental composition (the sample is 20% O2, 15% Fe, 50% SiO2, etc...), not the identity of the actual mineral makeup of the sample.

There are APXS instruments on most of the Mars landers, but Curiosity is first time an X-ray diffractometer has been used on Mars.

I also don't know what a Microwave mass spectrometer is, but there are many different types of microwave instruments. There are the microwave radiation observatories that map out the microwave background of the universe, there are microwave limb sounders that are used to study the composition and properties of the upper layers of the atmosphere, there are soil moisture sensors that are sort-of like a radar that measures the water content in the very top layers of the surface, there are surveillance satellites that catch stray microwaves used by line-of-sight microwave transmission towers, and probably many, many more.

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akron

akron

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32 minutes ago, DMagic said:

The powder X-Ray diffractometer in my set is used to study the exact mineral composition of surface samples.

I'm not really sure what an X-Ray Mass Spectrometer, mentioned by @Jeb1969, is. An Alpha particle X-ray spectrometer is used to study surface composition also, though the method is completely different, and doesn't really have anything to do with measuring mass. It is more in line with Curiosity's ChemCam, in that it provides an estimate of elemental composition (the sample is 20% O2, 15% Fe, 50% SiO2, etc...), not the identity of the actual mineral makeup of the sample.

There are APXS instruments on most of the Mars landers, but Curiosity is first time an X-ray diffractometer has been used on Mars.

I also don't know what a Microwave mass spectrometer is, but there are many different types of microwave instruments. There are the microwave radiation observatories that map out the microwave background of the universe, there are microwave limb sounders that are used to study the composition and properties of the upper layers of the atmosphere, there are soil moisture sensors that are sort-of like a radar that measures the water content in the very top layers of the surface, there are surveillance satellites that catch stray microwaves used by line-of-sight microwave transmission towers, and probably many, many more.

Wow, such a detailed response! I obviously have much, much more research to do to fully understand all the engineering and science behind a lot of these instruments. I think "Mass Spectrometer" might have been a misnomer and just "spectrometer" should be used in this case, but I didn't catch it :)

I often cannot differentiate a lot of the different spectrum instruments right away. Diffractometer, radiometer, and spectrometer get very jumbled sometimes and I might just barely know the difference after some reading. I am trying to appeal to a more simplified selection of scientific instruments so long as I don't make any contradictions or glaring science errors. Though I am sure more knowledgeable players may want something more detailed, I think it will be more manageable to have just one X-Ray experiment, one Infrared, and so on. Given the difference in the way data is analyzed, a surface-based and an orbital one may be needed at times, but I don't see a need for more for gameplay reasons.

Thank you for the info!

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Deimos Rast

Deimos Rast

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, akron said:

This next patch, BETA 14 is going to add engines and RCS systems

This looks good! I guess the idea is that the RTGs are hotter if they are left close to the spacecraft? I will check this out as well. I do not mind making a DRE patch!

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of say emissiveConstant or something, as in it "ventilates/cools better" when extended or I guess. Admittedly, I don't have the firmest grasp of thermal mechanics...or the 8 week old kitten that keeps trying to run on my keyboard...cutting this comment short lol

Edited by Deimos Rast
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akron

akron

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of say emissiveConstant or something, as in it "ventilates/cools better" when extended or I guess. Admittedly, I don't have the firmest grasp of thermal mechanics...or the 8 week old kitten that keeps trying to run on my keyboard...cutting this comment short lol

LOL. Well, space is a vacuum so there is no increase in ventilation from the deployment of the booms. Heat will still transfer through the boon itself but that is not the real reason this is done. The biggest concern is the escaping radiation from the RTGs. Their casings do not shield 100% of their radiation, so they are placed as far away from electronics as possible to prevent interference or, worse, radiation damage to the delicate electronics. If you notice the placement of most RTGs on probes, you will often find them on the opposite side of the spacecraft. Away from cameras and all the sensitive bits.

New Horizons is the only exception I have seen to this, but I think it was placed closer so that the heat from the RTG warms the electronics, since NH is going to the VERY cold Kuiper belt.

Edited by akron
grey-mar
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Deimos Rast

Deimos Rast

Posted
Posted (edited)

ah yes, forgot the vacuum part:P

Well continuing on in an attempt to save face... you could always decrease the skinSkinConductionMult on deployment, no? It determines, best I can tell, the conduction between the skin of two parts. Porkjet's AtomicAge radiators are the only part I've seen use it.

I think DRE has some custom values too and if you already have it for the module...I think it's a blanket "conductivefactor".

Edited by Deimos Rast
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Deimos Rast

Deimos Rast

Posted
Posted

Anyway, I made you a thing!

Here is the decaying RTG patch for Near Future Electrical. It's considered an optional extra in NFE, so probably best to keep it in a similar folder. I haven't had a chance to test it in game yet, so I can't attest to it's functionality. Personally, I hate the way RTG's are implemented in stock, and while not as fancy as JDiminishingRTG, this is probably a lot better.

Below you'll see BasePower, which is basically equal to Rate in the Stock Generator. HalfLife was always 8.35 in the example patches, but if you wanted to get crazy I'm sure you could play around with that. No idea what Easy mode does, but it was always True, so I left it as such. Feel free to use it, or not. Warranty void if it gives your probes space rabies or something.:D

  

//-----------COATL AEROSPACE - NEAR FUTURE ELECTRICAL DECAYING RTG'S SUPPORT--------------------//

//--------------CA-R2000 RTG--------------//
@PART[ca_rtg2000]:FOR[CoatlAerospace]:NEEDS[NearFutureElectrical]
{
	!MODULE[ModuleGenerator] {}
  MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleRadioisotopeGenerator
		BasePower = 0.2
		HalfLife = 8.35
		EasyMode = true
	}
}

//--------------CA-R3900 RTG--------------//
@PART[ca_rtg3900]:FOR[CoatlAerospace]:NEEDS[NearFutureElectrical]
{
	!MODULE[ModuleGenerator] {}
  MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleRadioisotopeGenerator
		BasePower = 0.39
		HalfLife = 8.35
		EasyMode = true
	}
}

//--------------CA-R8200 RTG--------------//
@PART[ca_rtg8200]:FOR[CoatlAerospace]:NEEDS[NearFutureElectrical]
{
	!MODULE[ModuleGenerator] {}
  MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleRadioisotopeGenerator
		BasePower = 0.82
		HalfLife = 8.35
		EasyMode = true
	}
}

 

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rasta013

rasta013

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Kertech said:

@akron was just wondering where and which files I should delete to prevent retexturing stock parts, I'm running ven's revamp for my long term save, but would love to try this mod out too...

currently it crashes my game

Log files will be needed to try and help some more.  I'm running Ven's alongside Coatl with no problems at all on a mod load with 150+ others so it's not a conflict between those two.

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akron

akron

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kertech said:

@akron was just wondering where and which files I should delete to prevent retexturing stock parts, I'm running ven's revamp for my long term save, but would love to try this mod out too...

currently it crashes my game

52 minutes ago, rasta013 said:

Log files will be needed to try and help some more.  I'm running Ven's alongside Coatl with no problems at all on a mod load with 150+ others so it's not a conflict between those two.

Yes. My mod does not use or modify any stock parts or textures so I do not think it will be the source of the conflict. Can you provide a log or more info? or both?

 

2 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Anyway, I made you a thing!

Here is the decaying RTG patch for Near Future Electrical. It's considered an optional extra in NFE, so probably best to keep it in a similar folder. I haven't had a chance to test it in game yet, so I can't attest to it's functionality. Personally, I hate the way RTG's are implemented in stock, and while not as fancy as JDiminishingRTG, this is probably a lot better.

Below you'll see BasePower, which is basically equal to Rate in the Stock Generator. HalfLife was always 8.35 in the example patches, but if you wanted to get crazy I'm sure you could play around with that. No idea what Easy mode does, but it was always True, so I left it as such. Feel free to use it, or not. Warranty void if it gives your probes space rabies or something.:D

Thank you for this! I want to test it some before I add it to the mod. This is something completely new!

 

EDIT: Also, the mod is now available on CKAN!

Edited by akron
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Noname115

Noname115

Posted
Posted

Hmm, if it has new models for stock science experiments, does that mean this mod competes with Vens Stock Part Revamp? I aim to install through CKAN, but I don't think there is a way to select which parts of the mod should be deactivated or overwritten.

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akron

akron

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1 minute ago, Noname115 said:

Hmm, if it has new models for stock science experiments, does that mean this mod competes with Vens Stock Part Revamp? I aim to install through CKAN, but I don't think there is a way to select which parts of the mod should be deactivated or overwritten.

This mod does not overwrite the stock models and thus will work fine with Ven's or any other revamps!

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sidfu

sidfu

Posted
Posted

when u do the engines we gonna have to get some real fuel cfg for them. shouldnt be to hard think aies has some small engines so if u use simlar thrust u can pull some values from that to speed up the process.

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akron

akron

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9 hours ago, sidfu said:

when u do the engines we gonna have to get some real fuel cfg for them. shouldnt be to hard think aies has some small engines so if u use simlar thrust u can pull some values from that to speed up the process.

It will be a little bit of a learning experience but yes, I do plan to support popular mods. Although some I personally don't use. Real Plume would be on that list for engines as well.

7 hours ago, Table said:

is it okay if you can add some proposed probes into this pack?

Absolutely. I do want to keep the mod somewhat compact, at least in the beginning.I would prefer requests be different and bring something unique to the roster. For example, I will not do the Galileo probe core because it is very similar to Voyager's (Torekka). But, if there is demand, I can do it after all the other stuff is done.

That being said, do you have a suggestion for a proposed mission(s)?

Right now, the following mission-inspired probe cores are planned:

  • Hyugens microprobe/lander
  • Luna microprobe/lander (Model by @Beale)
  • Venera lander (Model by @Beale)
  • Kepler/Juno large advanced hex core
  • Advanced OKTO (Essentially Voyager/Torekka 2, probably based on Cassini)
  • HTV core
  • MAVEN/other
  • Large Sat core inspired by TOPEX/Poseidon and other weather satellites
  • One or two Russian-inspired cores
  • New Horizons

 

 

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