I'm increasingly starting to hate KerbalStuff.

[Stone Blue]

16 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Curse costs Squad nothing and is reliably up. To bring Kerbalstuff to the same level of reliability would cost money. Why would they either a) increase hosting costs or b) reduce reliability?

Huh... Good to know...

If thats the case, then increasing hosting costs marginally, to support a 2nd mod host, that seems to be handling a SIGNIFICANT portion of the modding community Squad supposedly supports, seems like it could be considered good marketing?

 

I have no idea how much a used server costs, but maybe a couple thousand, or even a few hundred dollars would help KS to expand? Or if Squad HAS an old server laying around, maybe donate it?... Heck, maybe even put something in place on the forum, or start a Kickstarter, or something, where the community could donate, and Squad could work something with SirCmpwn?

Edited February 15, 2016 by Stone Blue

[BloodDusk]

Just now, regex said:

I just find it hilarious.  Please, continue.

Nah, I'm good. You're smart enough to figure it out by yourself. 

[Snark]

There's really not any point in speculating (or complaining) why Squad has picked Curseforge, or why it continues to use it, or why it doesn't provide KerbalStuff with official support, or anything like that.

There are two really good reasons why there's no point in speculating or complaining.

The first really good reason is that you don't know the answer.  Nor do I.  They're not just pulling Bingo balls out of a hopper, they're sane rational people and do things for a reason.  They have a whole set of constraints (historical, financial, legal, whatever) to what they do that you and I have zero insight into, so it's utterly pointless to bicker about it.

The second really good reason is that they're not out to get us.  Much of the angst I'm seeing here of the "why the hell doesn't Squad switch to KerbalStuff" variety seems to implicitly assume that it must somehow be because Squad simply doesn't care about the user community.  And that's clearly not the case.  They very obviously care passionately about the user community, just look at how vigorously they participate in these forums.  I spend a lot of time over in the Gameplay Questions forum, and I've lost count of how many times I've seen actual individual developers jump in to actual player questions and problems and provide answers and solutions.  It's astounding.  I've never seen that degree of user community engagement from any other company, and I've been in software for a long time.

So if Squad is doing this thing... they've got reasons for doing that, and the reason is not "because they don't care about the players."  And neither you nor I nor anyone outside of Squad is going to know what the reason is, but it's safe to assume that it's the kind of reason that won't go away because someone complained about it.

So perhaps tone down the rhetoric a little?

[Findthepin1]

Wait, what? I downloaded something from KerbalStuff last night.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Snark said:

<A BUNCH OF GOOD STUFF>

I agree.  People, please don't derail this thread.  Don't even bother to point fingers, we all, including me, have participated in it.

[BloodDusk]

4 minutes ago, Snark said:

There's really not any point in speculating (or complaining) why Squad has picked Curseforge, or why it continues to use it, or why it doesn't provide KerbalStuff with official support, or anything like that.

There are two really good reasons why there's no point in speculating or complaining.

The first really good reason is that you don't know the answer.  Nor do I.  They're not just pulling Bingo balls out of a hopper, they're sane rational people and do things for a reason.  They have a whole set of constraints (historical, financial, legal, whatever) to what they do that you and I have zero insight into, so it's utterly pointless to bicker about it.

The second really good reason is that they're not out to get us.  Much of the angst I'm seeing here of the "why the hell doesn't Squad switch to KerbalStuff" variety seems to implicitly assume that it must somehow be because Squad simply doesn't care about the user community.  And that's clearly not the case.  They very obviously care passionately about the user community, just look at how vigorously they participate in these forums.  I spend a lot of time over in the Gameplay Questions forum, and I've lost count of how many times I've seen actual individual developers jump in to actual player questions and problems and provide answers and solutions.  It's astounding.  I've never seen that degree of user community engagement from any other company, and I've been in software for a long time.

So if Squad is doing this thing... they've got reasons for doing that, and the reason is not "because they don't care about the players."  And neither you nor I nor anyone outside of Squad is going to know what the reason is, but it's safe to assume that it's the kind of reason that won't go away because someone complained about it.

So perhaps tone down the rhetoric a little?

I guess this goes more along the lines of:

"I can't believe a service as good as KerbalStuff is not that reliable and why is it not supported?"

As opposed to people disliking (hate is a feeling 99% of people in the world won't even expperience) Curse because that's the hip thing to do.

[Snark]

5 minutes ago, BloodDusk said:

"I can't believe a service as good as KerbalStuff is not that reliable and why is it not supported?"

Well, the easy way for it to get supported would be for SirCmpwn to put a "pay me" link on the site, and then the whole community that's been freeloading off him all this time rushes to throw cash at him on an ongoing basis.

...which would only work if the people using KerbalStuff actually started throwing money at it.  No idea whether that would happen enough to make a difference.

[Yemo]

Just now, Snark said:

Well, the easy way for it to get supported would be for SirCmpwn to put a "pay me" link on the site, and then the whole community that's been freeloading off him all this time rushes to throw cash at him on an ongoing basis.

...which would only work if the people using KerbalStuff actually started throwing money at it.  No idea whether that would happen enough to make a difference.

Or squad could just pay him some money as a special mod community advisor and be done with the whole situation...

[BloodDusk]

Just now, Snark said:

Well, the easy way for it to get supported would be for SirCmpwn to put a "pay me" link on the site, and then the whole community that's been freeloading off him all this time rushes to throw cash at him on an ongoing basis.

...which would only work if the people using KerbalStuff actually started throwing money at it.  No idea whether that would happen enough to make a difference.

Well, that 's the problem with having multiple hosting services for mods. Because it's much easier to blame everything on the end user the same way is much easier to blame the manufacturer. I guess it's also an issue of the powers that may be put their act together and decide how to handle the KerbalStuff sittuation, cause I have the impression that money is the minor issue here.

[Yemo]

Just now, BloodDusk said:

Well, that 's the problem with having multiple hosting services for mods. Because it's much easier to blame everything on the end user the same way is much easier to blame the manufacturer. I guess it's also an issue of the powers that may be put their act together and decide how to handle the KerbalStuff sittuation, cause I have the impression that money is the minor issue here.

Hiring him as a mod community advisor would (most likely) solve the appreciation issue as well. It is not like kerbalstuff would really benefit from official support from the ksp homepage for popularity, rather the other way around. So it is about appreciation for the effort (time and money) of the person and hiring him would most likely fix that...

[Red Iron Crown]

21 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Huh... Good to know...

If thats the case, then increasing hosting costs marginally, to support a 2nd mod host, that seems to be handling a SIGNIFICANT portion of the modding community Squad supposedly supports, seems like it could be considered good marketing?

 

I have no idea how much a used server costs, but maybe a couple thousand, or even a few hundred dollars would help KS to expand? Or if Squad HAS an old server laying around, maybe donate it?... Heck, maybe even put something in place on the forum, or start a Kickstarter, or something, where the community could donate, and Squad could work something with SirCmpwn?

It's not that simple. If Squad officially supported KS, it would have to have similar reliability as Curse, else they'd still be accused of favoritism. That isn't a level of service that can be done with an old server laying around and bandwidth costs alone. Curse maintains a staff of people who ensure that their servers are up reliably because their livelihood depends upon it, and to make KS similarly reliable would require the same. Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

[Frybert]

2 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

I honestly can't answer that question.

[BloodDusk]

Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

It's not that simple. If Squad officially supported KS, it would have to have similar reliability as Curse, else they'd still be accused of favoritism. That isn't a level of service that can be done with an old server laying around and bandwidth costs alone. Curse maintains a staff of people who ensure that their servers are up reliably because their livelihood depends upon it, and to make KS similarly reliable would require the same. Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

If a good portion of what happens in KSP feature wise is sort of driven by the mods that are popular, wouldn't hiring people to work on the community be technically hiring people to work on KSP too?

[Red Iron Crown]

1 minute ago, BloodDusk said:

If a good portion of what happens in KSP feature wise is sort of driven by the mods that are popular, wouldn't hiring people to work on the community be technically hiring people to work on KSP too?

Not at all, to my mind. And certainly hiring a programmer (or modder, as the recent trend seems to be) would have more direct, appreciable benefits to the game itself. Opportunity cost is a thing.

[Yemo]

12 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It's not that simple. If Squad officially supported KS, it would have to have similar reliability as Curse, else they'd still be accused of favoritism. That isn't a level of service that can be done with an old server laying around and bandwidth costs alone. Curse maintains a staff of people who ensure that their servers are up reliably because their livelihood depends upon it, and to make KS similarly reliable would require the same. Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

No need to officially support KS or hire a bunch of people. Just hire @SirCmpwn for something which gives him enough free time and money to do what he did so far...

And about the question on preference:

If I had to choose between hiring (edit: an additional) guy working on my house and hiring a guy who provides quality equipment/means to hundreds? of people who do quality work on my house for free, I would not have to think twice about it...

Edited February 15, 2016 by Yemo

[GDJ]

Well, for a one-man operation I think Kerbalstuff is working fine. Yes, the downtimes are annoying, but this might not be something that's aimed at Kerbalstuff precisely, but servers can be wonky if another website that the server holds is getting unusual traffic and/or other issues.

[Stone Blue]

14 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It's not that simple. If Squad officially supported KS, it would have to have similar reliability as Curse, else they'd still be accused of favoritism. That isn't a level of service that can be done with an old server laying around and bandwidth costs alone. Curse maintains a staff of people who ensure that their servers are up reliably because their livelihood depends upon it, and to make KS similarly reliable would require the same. Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

Good points... As always, thanx for an explanation, and another point of view.

[MrChumley]

9 minutes ago, Yemo said:

Or squad could just pay him some money as a special mod community advisor and be done with the whole situation...

 

2 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

because their livelihood depends upon it,

 

1 minute ago, BloodDusk said:

a good portion of what happens in KSP feature wise is sort of driven by the mods that are popular

 

1 minute ago, Red Iron Crown said:

 cost is a thing.

Is the money a result of an awesome community?  Or is an awesome community a result of the money?  I'm just going to shut up.

[Snark]

34 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It's not that simple. If Squad officially supported KS, it would have to have similar reliability as Curse, else they'd still be accused of favoritism. That isn't a level of service that can be done with an old server laying around and bandwidth costs alone. Curse maintains a staff of people who ensure that their servers are up reliably because their livelihood depends upon it, and to make KS similarly reliable would require the same. Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

^^ this.  This right here.  (Emphasis added to the quote above.)

'Nuff said.

[BloodDusk]

8 minutes ago, MrChumley said:

 

 

 

Is the money a result of an awesome community?  Or is an awesome community a result of the money?  I'm just going to shut up.

I wouldn't call something so divisive a 'community', but sure.

I just find weird that is convenient for SQUAD to advertise KerbalStuff (heck, there's even a fixed thread about it.) until money becomes part of the game.

[Raptor9]

16 minutes ago, Snark said:

51 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It's not that simple. If Squad officially supported KS, it would have to have similar reliability as Curse, else they'd still be accused of favoritism. That isn't a level of service that can be done with an old server laying around and bandwidth costs alone. Curse maintains a staff of people who ensure that their servers are up reliably because their livelihood depends upon it, and to make KS similarly reliable would require the same. Would you rather Squad hire people to work on KSP or to work on the mod hosting?

^^ this.  This right here.  (Emphasis added to the quote above.)

'Nuff said.

And therein lies the heart of the issue...can I vote for the "work on KSP"?

[Yemo]

19 minutes ago, Snark said:

^^ this.  This right here.  (Emphasis added to the quote above.)

'Nuff said.

 

1 minute ago, Raptor9 said:

And therein lies the heart of the issue...can I vote for the "work on KSP"?

So if someone releases a part for ksp and someone else provides the easiest means for a hundred people to release parts for ksp, then the first one should be preferentially given money by squad over the second one?

If that is the majority opinion of this community, I can only recommend @SirCmpwn to just not restore kerbalstuff and let that community deal with the consequences of their preferences...

[DuoDex]

Just my two cents.

Sites reliably up with good download speeds: Curse, Github, Dropbox (Google Drive, Mega.co.nz, etc).

Sites with patchy uptime and poor performance when downloading: Kerbalstuff.

Since those are the two most important issues to me, I'll be quite glad to see KS go if it means more mods get hosted on my preferred sites

[m4v]

@YemoSquad support wouldn't change a thing, they abandoned their own solution and went with Curse because they didn't have (or weren't willing to commit) the resources needed to maintain such site. If Squad could pay the bills then KS wouldn't exists in the first place because we would have SpacePort2 instead of Curse.

Edited February 15, 2016 by m4v

[Red Iron Crown]

5 minutes ago, Yemo said:

If that is the majority opinion of this community, I can only recommend @SirCmpwn to just not restore kerbalstuff and let that community deal with the consequences of their preferences...

We had a vibrant and active modding community before Kerbalstuff, we'll have the same after if that happens (not that I hope that is how it plays out). Very few people choose to mod or not mod based on what the official hosting is like, and even if they did Curse or any of the other many alternatives are still good enough.