WW2 BAD-T 2 - BDA AI Dogfight Tournament [SEMIFINALS]

[Van Disaster]

2 hours ago, tetryds said:

Battle incoming!

Someone post it here please.

As you wish.

 

[MarvinCZ]

14 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

The final battle of round 2 in the BAD T2 Second Tier has been uploaded to the tube

There are only 4 battles left ... The two semi-final matches, the bronze medal match between the two defeated craft from the semi-finals and then the Final battle

Good luck to you all

Sorry, I thought that with competition mode and/or vessel switcher available, time to min altitude wouldn't have to be the deciding factor in these battles.

[Van Disaster]

1 hour ago, MarvinCZ said:

Sorry, I thought that with competition mode and/or vessel switcher available, time to min altitude wouldn't have to be the deciding factor in these battles.

It's not in the current rules, but to be honest I think that is something that *should* be, there ought to be minimum separation before fight start - also perhaps BDA competition mode needs to let craft orbit until they've reached default altitude. Dwerto managed to work out how to 100% kill the champ of the compo I was running in 1.0.4 just by being very quick off the runway, if that didn't work the craft was useless - but if the competition had still been running he'd have made King of the Hill.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Van Disaster

[DoctorDavinci]

5 hours ago, MarvinCZ said:

Sorry, I thought that with competition mode and/or vessel switcher available, time to min altitude wouldn't have to be the deciding factor in these battles.

The module that goes into combined weapons mananger/AI pilot wasn't included in the aviator arsenal download so although it would have been a nice touch, all that happens when I try and use the competition mode is the crafts keep flying around each other and never engage

[tetryds]

Why isn't anybody finding it super weird that the UpperProp won again? Lewl.

If both crafts are capable of rapidly climbing to their desired altitudes I simply go by letting them battle straight away, but sometimes it's important to give some clearance.

But I tested a lot and this does not seem to impact the battle results too much, because both climb towards different directions, they have double the distance they go far away to climb when coming back, so if you climb slowly you end up going further away anyway, the only problem being turning back if the enemy approaches too fast, which is rare.

When one craft seems affected by this I cancel the match and use the competition mode, usually at 3 to 4km distance.

@DoctorDavinci Add this to the AI Antenna.cfg:

MODULE
{
  name = ModuleWingCommander
}

[Van Disaster]

58 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

The module that goes into combined weapons mananger/AI pilot wasn't included in the aviator arsenal download so although it would have been a nice touch, all that happens when I try and use the competition mode is the crafts keep flying around each other and never engage

The modulemanager patch I posted a few pages back appears to actually work to fix that.

Re: upperprop, I actually lost track of who won in the end. I'd ask you to post the craft file but I guess it actually still is a competitor

@tetryds RE merge speed ( which is what starting distance is about really ) - I have noticed from trying fights between the same two craft with different starting distances that some really will perform better if they enter the initial merge at different speeds. I haven't noticed *any* craft bothering to reach defaultAlt before starting battle, though.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Van Disaster

[MarvinCZ]

1 hour ago, DoctorDavinci said:

The module that goes into combined weapons mananger/AI pilot wasn't included in the aviator arsenal download so although it would have been a nice touch, all that happens when I try and use the competition mode is the crafts keep flying around each other and never engage

In addition to the fixes posted above, you can also start only the pilots at first, and enable Guard mode only when the aircraft reach sufficient altitude and distance. That's easy to do with the Vessel switcher.

[DoctorDavinci]

Well if you want I'll re-run the battle using competition mode but I'm pretty sure it won't make much of a difference

I'll run some tests

[Van Disaster]

In celebration of Upperprop success, I tried Underprop! it's surprisingly effective.

Spoiler

 

[Bob_Saget54]

Well, I tried XD

@tetryds After the battles have run their course, I'm gonna try to make my own style of the Upperprop. It makes a much better target than the testing dummy!

Edited May 1, 2016 by Bob_Saget54

[MarvinCZ]

2 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Well if you want I'll re-run the battle using competition mode but I'm pretty sure it won't make much of a difference

I'll run some tests

I would personally feel better about it, even if the resulting winner was the same.

That battle was quite affected by this. The first plane always went down before it was ready to fight and the second of the pair ended up with two enemies on its tail.

Note that none of the planes in the fight were mine, and I am sorry for causing you extra work with these complaints.

Edited May 1, 2016 by MarvinCZ

[DoctorDavinci]

18 minutes ago, MarvinCZ said:

I would personally feel better about it, even if the resulting winner was the same.

That battle was quite affected by this. The first plane always went down before it was ready to fight and the second of the pair ended up with two enemies on its tail.

Ask and it shall be done

I have ran the fight again using competition mode and have finished editing and adding some music ... I'm exporting the battle now and it should be uploaded shortly

This brings to question on whether competition mode should be used for all fights ... Thoughts?

[DoctorDavinci]

Competition mode battle between @Veeltch and @Noir has been uploaded to the tube

 

[MarvinCZ]

9 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Competition mode battle between @Veeltch and @Noir has been uploaded to the tube

That is the battle I had hoped for - intense, with violent action and both parties putting up a good fight.

I'm a bit glad that the winner didn't change, which could be cruel to Veeltch. Noir's plane deserved to show us what it got, though.

Edit: About competition mode for all battles - I don't think it's necessary if both planes manage to get ready and meet in fair combat.

Edited May 2, 2016 by MarvinCZ

[Van Disaster]

3 hours ago, MarvinCZ said:

Edit: About competition mode for all battles - I don't think it's necessary if both planes manage to get ready and meet in fair combat.

The problem there is "how do you know a plane is ready"? I'm of the opinion it should unless the runways are out at max range already. If you want a random element you could use a random number generator to grab a number between say, 5000 and 16000 & use that as the competition distance.

[DoctorDavinci]

6 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

The problem there is "how do you know a plane is ready"? I'm of the opinion it should unless the runways are out at max range already. If you want a random element you could use a random number generator to grab a number between say, 5000 and 16000 & use that as the competition distance.

Well seeing as the competition mode is working for me now I will do the remaining 4 fights using it

I'll use 5000 as the distance and that should take care of making sure all the fighters are ready so nobody gets sucker punched

Edited May 2, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[tetryds]

Erm, not really, that is not how it's supposed to be, I should have stepped in earlier.

Will explain everything tonight when I get home.

[Van Disaster]

No actual fight tonight it looks like, so for entertainment, Underprop's first major outing. Not exactly a shining success, but don't be afraid to try seemingly mad things! this craft's moments of inertia are *tiny*.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Van Disaster

[Wjolcz]

That was a quality battle, @Noir! Thanks @DoctorDavinci for hosting the whole tier 2 branch!

That plane of mine sure dutch rolls like hell! I already have something else in mind for the next tournament. It's going to be a single engine monoplane, but a rather unusual one. In fact it's so unusual I have stumbled upon a picture of it in Google graphics only once by pure luck and there's no info about it on Wikipedia.

6 hours ago, Van Disaster said:

No actual fight tonight it looks like, so for entertainment, Underprop's first major outing. Not exactly a shining success, but don't be afraid to try seemingly mad things! this craft's moments of inertia are *tiny*.

  Hide contents

 

 

That's such a cool and chubby little plane! I love it!

[tetryds]

About running battles, there are a few implicit rules for running it that I didn't realize I should have shared with @DoctorDavinci before they started so it's all my fault.

Anyway, here is how this works:

- The person running the battles has full authority over the battle, and may decide to rerun a battle at will in case of accidents or any other problem such as collisions after takeoff or failing to takeoff.

- The first three valid battles define the winner of the match, regardless of the results of other matches run after it if that happens, unless valid rematching.

- The person running the battles sets up and decides whether a battle is fair or not, and can cancel it and change the parameters at will until it's decided that the battle offers fair conditions to both competitors.

- In any circumstance may the person running the battles favor one team, be it by increasing the competition distance to allow for a less capable craft to turn back or reducing it to improve the chances of a craft with superior turning habilities, or changing the battlefield, the competition distance must be smaller than 4km, only extending further if required by the third rule.

- Takeoff settings are only considered to change if such unfair conditions appear during or before the first meetup.

- In case a craft gets slaughtered on the three battles, a fourth must be run on a different setting to ensure the match was fair. This fourth battle is not part of the match.

- If the participants request a rematch, I must be contacted beforehand to decide if it must happen or not.

These are basically the rules for running the battles, I am going to keep them explicit from now on, they may change without notice.

But, as you can see, the person running the battles decides everything and is not obligated to display unvalid or canceled battles, that's why I first asked about allowing DoctorDavinci to run the tier 2.

But if you still feel something is wrong, please contact me directly.

This also means that the rematch of the last T2 battle should be invalid, but in this case it was fine as it may have broken rule 3 and competition mode was not available.

On the next BAD-T, the rules will be a bit more strict, and also a bit more empowering, there were circumstances where one craft should lose the battle straight away for being incapable, not requiring a battle video, for instance. Straight disqualification will also be possible, it is now but only for failing to battle or breaking rules.

Sorry for not posting this yesterday, nor earlier.

[Van Disaster]

There were some odd things that came up in a previous contest which generally ended up as "whoever's running the fight, make a sensible decision" - but, who wins if all craft run out of ammo? if *all* craft crash? if the remaining craft are all airborne, have ammo and fuel but are so damaged they can't actually fight, when do you stop? ( if they get far enough apart all but the focus craft will eventually despawn, so you can't just say "leave them going" ). if it's a draw does that count in the total? ( we decided it didn't & just ran rounds until there was a clear number of wins ).

These are not hard questions, but you might as well lay out the answers so there's no confusion later

[DoctorDavinci]

@tetryds - Thanks you for the clarification

The second battle has been invalidated, but seeing as it didn't change the winner, I will leave it on the tube for all to watch since it was a pretty good battle

[tetryds]

@Van Disaster if both run out of ammo, all crafts crash at the same time, get so damaged that they can't fight or anything like that the battle is simply discarded and rerun.

If one craft runs out of ammo but sticks to the enemy tail indefinitely, the battle is also rerun.

If it takes too long to finish, but actually ends with a winner, the person running the battles can run it a second time to use that on the video footage as long as the victorious craft is the same on the replaced footage.

The videos are meant to be fun to watch, not boring and 40 minutes per battle long, unless that is the case also for rematching.

But yeah, draws are simply discarded.

[tetryds]

New battle incoming!

Please link it here as usual

[luftein]

2 hours ago, tetryds said:

New battle incoming!

Please link it here as usual

Here there are