[1.1.3] KSO (Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter) Legacy Packs & Development Updates

[Vahnskir]

1 hour ago, Swordmaster said:

@Madman_Andre @Vahnskir Eskandare has already taken over this mod. If you look above Madman_Andre's comment, 

Just be patient. It does no good to ask for an ETA, and in face there is a sticky'd post regarding poking modders on ETAs. 

I'm not entirely sure how I managed to miss that and this has been a minor blow to my pride

[Madman_Andre]

1 hour ago, Swordmaster said:

@Madman_Andre @Vahnskir Eskandare has already taken over this mod. If you look above Madman_Andre's comment, 

Just be patient. It does no good to ask for an ETA, and in face there is a sticky'd post regarding poking modders on ETAs. 

Well, I guess I'll be patient. Won't nag anyone anymore on the subject.

[Eskandare]

11 hours ago, Swordmaster said:

@Madman_Andre @Vahnskir Eskandare has already taken over this mod. If you look above Madman_Andre's comment, 

Just be patient. It does no good to ask for an ETA, and in face there is a sticky'd post regarding poking modders on ETAs. 

I Can't give an ETA on KSO or any mod I'm working on. Just be patient. It is better to get quality work then a rushed crap job.

[Madman_Andre]

9 hours ago, Eskandare said:

I Can't give an ETA on KSO or any mod I'm working on. Just be patient. It is better to get quality work then a rushed crap job.

I agree! Good luck with everything too.

[Kauske]

If for nothing else, the little orbital rug module in this mod is something I've been on the look out for. I can't say I've seen anything quite like it, with the off-centre cabin, keeping the entire unit in-line. I would probably rate it as a must have, though playing around with it, it's just a bit wonky in 1.5.x

[Zackghostgamer]

I have one question, I looked on spacedock, what is the difference between Super 25 orbiter and Dauntless Orbiter?

 

[shdwlrd]

The Super25 is larger with more payload capacity than the Dauntless.

[Zackghostgamer]

I know the craft files are not available, but when will they be released?

[Raptor22]

I've seen a lot of people saying "be patient, be patient, it'll be released eventually," but in all honesty, it is most likely that this mod is dead. A sort of HL3 scenario - "It'll be done when it's done. Whenever that'll be, no one will ever know."

Just look at the trend. In four days, it will have been one year (Dec 3, 2017) since the last community patch, not even an official fix, and two and a half years since the last official update (June 19, 2016). There have been four major versions since it was last updated - 1.2.2, 1.3.1, 1.4.5, 1.5.1 (sure, there was 1.3.0, 1.4.1, 1.4.3, etc, but I'm talking about the 1.X number updates) - and KSP 1.6 is just around the corner.

I recently tried to run this in 1.5.1, and it really does not fly well at all. I remember that back in 1.1.3 and 1.2.2 this shuttle flew so well (especially the Super-25) that I even used them as attack aircraft - swapped out the SME's for jet engines, put on an intake, and this thing flew better than half of the experimental fighters that I've made. I was able to fly through both island hangars - a difficult task, even with an aircraft meant to perform acrobatics. That's how well this thing performed. A dream machine.
Flash forward to today, I can barely maintain level flight with the shuttle. It's darn-near impossible to get to orbit, even with some modifications (tons of reaction wheels, clipping canards in the front of the shuttle, etc.). Oh, and re-entry? Forget it, you'll spin out of control, flatspinning all the way to the ground. You better have some level 3 kerbalnauts aboard so that you can parachute out.

I'm not a mod author, nor do I claim to be. However, it seems to me that the aerodynamic physics of KSP have greatly changed between 1.1.3 and 1.5.1, judging by how the shuttle could go from flying like a dream to flying like a dead elephant.

 

This mod was one of my favorite mods of all time. I used it for years, since 0.90 at the very least - I can't even remember when I started using it, it's been so long. 

Yet, seeing as it's been two years since the last update, it really does seem to be time to say goodbye to the mod. Who knows, maybe Eskandare can pull off a miracle, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. When a KSP mod is in development hell for that long, the chances that it will come out alive - let alone more than just a fix to get it working, adding more content - are slim to none, with miracle exceptions being few and far between.

 

So, I guess my point is this: Don't bother trying to ask "when" or even "if" the mod will be updated, as chances are 99/100 that you will be bitterly disappointed. Sure, you can check in every few months to see if a miracle has occurred, but if I have learned anything following this mod, continuing to ask "has there been any progress?" won't get anyone anywhere anytime soon. 

[Certexarms]

On 11/20/2018 at 7:47 PM, Zackghostgamer said:

I know the craft files are not available, but when will they be released?

I also want to know this. It looks really cool

[panarchist]

10 minutes ago, Raptor22 said:

I've seen a lot of people saying "be patient, be patient, it'll be released eventually," but in all honesty, it is most likely that this mod is dead. A sort of HL3 scenario - "It'll be done when it's done. Whenever that'll be, no one will ever know."

Just look at the trend. In four days, it will have been one year (Dec 3, 2017) since the last community patch, not even an official fix, and two and a half years since the last official update (June 19, 2016). There have been four major versions since it was last updated - 1.2.2, 1.3.1, 1.4.5, 1.5.1 (sure, there was 1.3.0, 1.4.1, 1.4.3, etc, but I'm talking about the 1.X number updates) - and KSP 1.6 is just around the corner.

I recently tried to run this in 1.5.1, and it really does not fly well at all. I remember that back in 1.1.3 and 1.2.2 this shuttle flew so well (especially the Super-25) that I even used them as attack aircraft - swapped out the SME's for jet engines, put on an intake, and this thing flew better than half of the experimental fighters that I've made. I was able to fly through both island hangars - a difficult task, even with an aircraft meant to perform acrobatics. That's how well this thing performed. A dream machine.
Flash forward to today, I can barely maintain level flight with the shuttle. It's darn-near impossible to get to orbit, even with some modifications (tons of reaction wheels, clipping canards in the front of the shuttle, etc.). Oh, and re-entry? Forget it, you'll spin out of control, flatspinning all the way to the ground. You better have some level 3 kerbalnauts aboard so that you can parachute out.

I'm not a mod author, nor do I claim to be. However, it seems to me that the aerodynamic physics of KSP have greatly changed between 1.1.3 and 1.5.1, judging by how the shuttle could go from flying like a dream to flying like a dead elephant.

 

This mod was one of my favorite mods of all time. I used it for years, since 0.90 at the very least - I can't even remember when I started using it, it's been so long. 

Yet, seeing as it's been two years since the last update, it really does seem to be time to say goodbye to the mod. Who knows, maybe Eskandare can pull off a miracle, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. When a KSP mod is in development hell for that long, the chances that it will come out alive - let alone more than just a fix to get it working, adding more content - are slim to none, with miracle exceptions being few and far between.

 

So, I guess my point is this: Don't bother trying to ask "when" or even "if" the mod will be updated, as chances are 99/100 that you will be bitterly disappointed. Sure, you can check in every few months to see if a miracle has occurred, but if I have learned anything following this mod, continuing to ask "has there been any progress?" won't get anyone anywhere anytime soon. 

I don't think that's a fair characterization. It's only been two months since Eskandere took the mod over with Helldiver's permission. Eskandere and a couple others have been working on patches for the last year - there's a lot of issues which couldn't be addressed prior to September because it requires reworking the models, and the licensing didn't permit that. The aerodynamics model has changed several times since the last time that level of "fixing" was done on this mod. I suspect Eskandere is spending a lot of time on Kerbinside right now rather than KSO - and that's appropriate. There's not a lot of modders left in the community compared to 3 years ago, and those that are around are all maintaining multiple mods. If, a year from now, no love has been shown to this, then I think your points will have merit. (and will prove prescient) But until then, I think those of us who are using more than modding owe it to those who ARE modding to give them the benefit of the doubt for 6-ish months or so. Those who are modding have lives and don't spend 20 hours a week modding KSP. KSO easily needs a couple hundred hours of remedial work to be trouble-free, which is likely part of why Helldiver and Nazari didn't find the time to update this. Their intent was to replace this with a new shuttle, and the community by and large just gave them grief about how long it was taking and badgered them for updates. I'm not saying that you're taking that attitude, Raptor22 - but I am saying that others are, and that all of us shouldn't count this one out just yet.

[Raptor22]

2 hours ago, panarchist said:

I don't think that's a fair characterization. It's only been two months since Eskandere took the mod over with Helldiver's permission. Eskandere and a couple others have been working on patches for the last year - there's a lot of issues which couldn't be addressed prior to September because it requires reworking the models, and the licensing didn't permit that. The aerodynamics model has changed several times since the last time that level of "fixing" was done on this mod. I suspect Eskandere is spending a lot of time on Kerbinside right now rather than KSO - and that's appropriate. There's not a lot of modders left in the community compared to 3 years ago, and those that are around are all maintaining multiple mods. If, a year from now, no love has been shown to this, then I think your points will have merit. (and will prove prescient) But until then, I think those of us who are using more than modding owe it to those who ARE modding to give them the benefit of the doubt for 6-ish months or so. Those who are modding have lives and don't spend 20 hours a week modding KSP. KSO easily needs a couple hundred hours of remedial work to be trouble-free, which is likely part of why Helldiver and Nazari didn't find the time to update this. Their intent was to replace this with a new shuttle, and the community by and large just gave them grief about how long it was taking and badgered them for updates. I'm not saying that you're taking that attitude, Raptor22 - but I am saying that others are, and that all of us shouldn't count this one out just yet.

I'm not saying that he can't do it, nor that he won't make an attempt to do it. However, seeing as how long this mod has been in development hell, and how much stuff Eskandare is already having to take care of (having to not only maintain but expand his other mods, plus having an actual life), I'm pointing out that people shouldn't be too quick to get their hopes up concerning a revival. It may come with a miracle, who knows. I'm just bringing light to past trends, as they can be used to extrapolate the future.

[Phoenix13]

Hello I use this mod for a long time and I'm still a big fan. today I have a problem with the launcher engines and shuttles no longer available. some idea?

Spoiler

Bonjour j'utilise ce mod depuis longtemps et j'en reste un grand fan. aujourd'hui j'ai un problème avec les réacteurs du lanceur et des navettes n'appairassent plus. quelq'un une idée?

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Val
Google translated

[shdwlrd]

On 1/14/2019 at 2:58 AM, Phoenix13 said:

Hello I use this mod for a long time and I'm still a big fan. today I have a problem with the launcher engines and shuttles no longer available. some idea?

Try deleting the parts database file and restarting KSP. If that works, update module manager and KSP. There's a bug in 1.6.0 that isn't allowing MM to rebuild the parts database file. KSP 1.6.1 and the latest build for MM corrects it.

[Phoenix13]

On 17/01/2019 at 16:25, shdwlrd said:

Essayez de supprimer le fichier de base de données de pièces et de redémarrer KSP. Si cela fonctionne, mettez à jour le gestionnaire de module et le KSP. La version 1.6.0 contient un bogue qui n'autorise pas MM à reconstruire le fichier de base de données de pièces. KSP 1.6.1 et la dernière version pour MM le corrigent.

 

thank you for your answer, I already have version 1.6.1 of ksp and Mmanager has 3.1.3. Where can I find  the parts database file ? The file from ksp is empty ?

[shdwlrd]

39 minutes ago, Phoenix13 said:

Where can I find  the parts database file ? The file from ksp is empty ?

It's in the root KerbalSpaceProgram directory. (User/kerbalspaceprogram/) You have to delete it. KSP won't rebuild the file if it exists, even if the file is empty. If that still doesn't work, if using Steam, verify the files or redownload and reinstall. (Don't worry, you won't lose your mods.)

[Eskandare]

Hey guys, I'm still working on it, around keeping myself alive and sheltered. I have a new KSR update coming out, soon once I am satisfied everything is working flawlessly, and this is high priority after that. 

[smotheredrun]

On 2/22/2019 at 1:35 AM, Eskandare said:

Hey guys, I'm still working on it, around keeping myself alive and sheltered. I have a new KSR update coming out, soon once I am satisfied everything is working flawlessly, and this is high priority after that. 

Hazah!!

[saltandvinegar]

On 2/22/2019 at 12:35 AM, Eskandare said:

Hey guys, I'm still working on it, around keeping myself alive and sheltered. I have a new KSR update coming out, soon once I am satisfied everything is working flawlessly, and this is high priority after that. 

I haven't played KSP since 0.90ish. Decided to come back and see if this mod is around. Awesome to see people are still working on this mod! It felt like a must have when I was playing KSP.

[smotheredrun]

On 3/30/2019 at 5:28 PM, saltandvinegar said:

I haven't played KSP since 0.90ish. Decided to come back and see if this mod is around. Awesome to see people are still working on this mod! It felt like a must have when I was playing KSP.

The Super 25 flies well-ish in 1.3.1, but I haven't flown the Dauntless since about 1.2 or something.  That one liked to do space gymnastics on the launch pad.

[Raptor22]

When this does get updated, one thing that you'll need to look at are the RCS transforms.  It appears that 2 years between versions has caused some slight problems with rendering the of the RCS effects, as they're both backwards, firing from the wrong thrusters (pretty much every single thruster fires just for a roll), and way too large:

Now, the RCS still works to move the shuttle - it just doesn't function properly. I've tried to make my own fix with little luck (I can only really do the most basic of config edits).

Realplume still appears to work, which is nice.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Raptor22

[smotheredrun]

@Raptor22 lol yeah, it seems like the KSP developers (or someone) keeps changing things with RCS....

 

[shdwlrd]

There were patches written that fixed that...

[Raptor22]

10 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

There were patches written that fixed that...

Well, they don't appear to be in the over-a-year-old community patch, which is the most recent file that I can find of the thing.

[linuxgurugamer]

Take a look at KWRocketry Rebalanced for examples of how to fix the rcs problems

You neex to replace ModuleRCS with ModuleRCSFX