[1.1.2] Orbital Utility Vehicle v1.2.4

[nli2work]

1 hour ago, Neutrinovore said:

Uh, okay, but the thing is, I don't even HAVE KAS or KIS installed, not anywhere on my computer, let alone in GameData.  Hmm, I'll investigate this, I did edit some of the configs, perhaps I removed something I shouldn't have.

hm... that's interesting... check the database/assemblies in ALT-12 while at space center, see if KAS.dll is loaded. To remove the winch completely, at the very end of the OrbitalTugPod.cfg there's a section "Start Widgets" with a section starting with @Part[OrbitalTugPod]:NEEDS[KAS]{ stuff }. Delete everything between the curly brackets and that will get rid of the winch, even if you have KAS installed later.

[Enceos]

44 minutes ago, nli2work said:

hm... that's interesting... check the database/assemblies in ALT-12 while at space center, see if KAS.dll is loaded. To remove the winch completely, at the very end of the OrbitalTugPod.cfg there's a section "Start Widgets" with a section starting with @Part[OrbitalTugPod]:NEEDS[KAS]{ stuff }. Delete everything between the curly brackets and that will get rid of the winch, even if you have KAS installed later.

I think he means the model itself, not the module. He wants to get rid of the winch visually.

EDIT: I see the widgets patch which adds the winch to the pod. Strange that it activates without KAS.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Enceos

[speedwaystar]

very minor bug report: the push adapter doesn't have a manufacturer, and so doesn't group with other Ark Propulsion stuff

Edited March 9, 2016 by speedwaystar

[nli2work]

46 minutes ago, speedwaystar said:

very minor bug report: the push adapter doesn't have a manufacturer, and so doesn't group with other Ark Propulsion stuff

Thanks, will be fixed next update.

 

2 hours ago, Enceos said:

I think he means the model itself, not the module. He wants to get rid of the winch visually.

EDIT: I see the widgets patch which adds the winch to the pod. Strange that it activates without KAS.

Yeah, the attached models are added with Model node; if you want the vanilla pod all the time, just delete the widget blocks. same for the drone core.

Edited March 9, 2016 by nli2work

[speedwaystar]

On 2/29/2016 at 0:51 PM, nli2work said:

Push Adaptor/Service Bay; Similar to the adaptor from B9, lets you stack stuff in front of the command pod if you so wish. ...Beware that it will block Command Pod's winch unit from ejecting if mounted to the adaptor's middle node.

i'm a bit confused by this since the Push Adapter seems to fit behind the command pod, over and around the grappler unit. am i assembling it correctly? i don't see how it would fit in front of the command pod. pictures?

[Enceos]

4 hours ago, speedwaystar said:

i'm a bit confused by this since the Push Adapter seems to fit behind the command pod, over and around the grappler unit. am i assembling it correctly? i don't see how it would fit in front of the command pod. pictures?

I'm using the push adapter as a nice extension to tow an extra fuel tank for moar dV.

(tank from the USI Kontainers pack)

[nli2work]

7 hours ago, speedwaystar said:

i'm a bit confused by this since the Push Adapter seems to fit behind the command pod, over and around the grappler unit. am i assembling it correctly? i don't see how it would fit in front of the command pod. pictures?

Yeah, the command modules don't have front stack nodes. I figured the most obvious way to use the adaptor is mounting the command module in the middle stack node. that way you get a bottom/top stack node, and a forward docking node in 2 parts. plus RCS and Mono. Sticking some batteries/RTGs in the service bay can up the EC charge. The structural pillars gives some radial attachment areas as well. Attaching a docking port at the rear gives you a pretty versatile and compact tug in just 3 parts. If going the absolute minimum route you can use the drone core + docking port. 

I'm sure there're many more creative ways to use it, like Enceo's done.

Edited March 9, 2016 by nli2work

[Neutrinovore]

19 hours ago, nli2work said:

hm... that's interesting... check the database/assemblies in ALT-12 while at space center, see if KAS.dll is loaded. To remove the winch completely, at the very end of the OrbitalTugPod.cfg there's a section "Start Widgets" with a section starting with @Part[OrbitalTugPod]:NEEDS[KAS]{ stuff }. Delete everything between the curly brackets and that will get rid of the winch, even if you have KAS installed later.

Well, here's an update:  I updated this mod to the latest version, and left everything untouched... well, I edited some of the configs to change a few parameters like the amount of torque or monoprop or something like that, but I didn't delete or add anything, but I still have the winch part showing up on the front of the pod, and I'm absolutely 100% certain that I don't have any KIS or KAS .dll's anywhere in my game.  However, I will follow your instructions above and TRIPLE check everything as well, and once again report back to let you know what's going on.

Thanks for the ongoing help, my friend.   

[nli2work]

10 minutes ago, Neutrinovore said:

Well, here's an update:  I updated this mod to the latest version, and left everything untouched... well, I edited some of the configs to change a few parameters like the amount of torque or monoprop or something like that, but I didn't delete or add anything, but I still have the winch part showing up on the front of the pod, and I'm absolutely 100% certain that I don't have any KIS or KAS .dll's anywhere in my game.  However, I will follow your instructions above and TRIPLE check everything as well, and once again report back to let you know what's going on.

Thanks for the ongoing help, my friend.   

can you give me list of the mods you are running? want to see if I can replicate the situation here.

[speedwaystar]

wow, the 

12 hours ago, nli2work said:

Yeah, the command modules don't have front stack nodes. I figured the most obvious way to use the adaptor is mounting the command module in the middle stack node. that way you get a bottom/top stack node, and a forward docking node in 2 parts. plus RCS and Mono. Sticking some batteries/RTGs in the service bay can up the EC charge. The structural pillars gives some radial attachment areas as well. Attaching a docking port at the rear gives you a pretty versatile and compact tug in just 3 parts. If going the absolute minimum route you can use the drone core + docking port. 

I'm sure there're many more creative ways to use it, like Enceo's done.

like this?

i hadn't thought of that configuration. this was my attempt:

which is fine -- the push adapter wraps around the grappler without clipping (much). the only problem is that the top docking port is blocked. i guess it's not possible to make both ends of the same object into docking ports.  really impressed with how these parts all fit together (in various configurations, some probably not intended :D)

this is my simple homebrew tug, which is basically two universal docking ports, a probe body and an OMS.

[speedwaystar]

suggestion: flashing amber hazard lights!

[nli2work]

Yea the first pic is how I originally designed the adaptor... something that fit around the command pod to give it forward stack node. B9 has similar part, where I got the idea from, but that one is for 2.5m parts. I didn't expect the grappler to fit inside the adaptor. the grappler was built to reach around the command pod originally. If you were pulling medium to large asteroids around, the grappler is better, much stronger RCS and SAS. If just moving moderate sized things around orbit, the adaptor is more fitting. You could always stick the stock grappler on the front of the adaptor for variety.

unfortunately game doesn't allow more than 1 docking module on a part; and it can't be  on the same part with a command or grapple module.

Aha! I didn't realize stock docking nodes now support more than one type... which means the adaptor's docking clamp can become a universal docking port! that'll be in the next update too.

Edited March 10, 2016 by nli2work

[ComatoseJedi]

What is the humongous two ended docking port with a shaft down the middle used for? Is that a KSPI-E thing?

[nli2work]

40 minutes ago, ComatoseJedi said:

What is the humongous two ended docking port with a shaft down the middle used for? Is that a KSPI-E thing?

that was a texturing exercise to learn new software... 5m end caps and 1.5m diameter center column that holds Monoprop. RCS on both ends. I thought it'd be too big to be useful, but it fits inside the 3.75m fairing. It'd probably make a good piece for space station. I'll upload it later this week.

[Neutrinovore]

5 hours ago, nli2work said:

can you give me list of the mods you are running? want to see if I can replicate the situation here.

Oh god, what, all 133 of them??   Yeah, I run a lot of mods.  No, I fixed it by doing what you said, I just deleted the section of the pod's config file that had the things referring to the winch, and now it's fine, problem solved. 

But, are you sure that you're using the correct ModuleManager syntax?  My config file reads thus:

 @PART[OrbitalTugPod]:NEEDS[KAS]
	{	etc...

I'm really not up on the specific MM modifier symbols, but just off the top of my head, shouldn't there be something else other than just ":NEEDS[KAS]"?  Again, I don't know, I'm just asking, someone who's much more expert at computer coding would have to check this.

So, anyway, my particular problem is fixed, so I consider it resolved on my end.  But, of course, if you have any questions it's not like I'm going to just disappear, lol.

Oh, and if you really do need a list of ALL the mods I'm running, someone will have to tell me how to take a screenshot of my GameData folder and post it here, because I'm not going to take the time to manually type out a list of all 130+ of them! 

Later, all! 

[ComatoseJedi]

One of two ways you can do this. 1) Open your GameData folder, press the PrtScrn button, paste the caption into paint or whatever graphics program you wish, save the file. 2). If you have AVC, you can copy the contents of your mod list paste it to a notepad document. While #2 doesn't give a full account of all the mods that are not supported by AVC, it will give a good bit of your mods that are AVC supported. Hope this helps

[nli2work]

8 hours ago, Neutrinovore said:

Oh god, what, all 133 of them??   Yeah, I run a lot of mods.  No, I fixed it by doing what you said, I just deleted the section of the pod's config file that had the things referring to the winch, and now it's fine, problem solved. 

But, are you sure that you're using the correct ModuleManager syntax?  My config file reads thus:

 @PART[OrbitalTugPod]:NEEDS[KAS]
	{	etc...

I'm really not up on the specific MM modifier symbols, but just off the top of my head, shouldn't there be something else other than just ":NEEDS[KAS]"?  Again, I don't know, I'm just asking, someone who's much more expert at computer coding would have to check this.

So, anyway, my particular problem is fixed, so I consider it resolved on my end.  But, of course, if you have any questions it's not like I'm going to just disappear, lol.

Oh, and if you really do need a list of ALL the mods I'm running, someone will have to tell me how to take a screenshot of my GameData folder and post it here, because I'm not going to take the time to manually type out a list of all 130+ of them! 

Later, all! 

That's correct MM syntax far as I know. that tells MM to modify the Part, when (and only when) KAS.dll is loaded, with the parameters inside the curly brackets. The modifier parameters adds the model, and associated KAS modules to make it work. As far as I have tested with a variety of setups here it works as expected... a game with 6 or 7 plugins; 0 mods; KSPI-E only. Removing KAS should remove the winch. 

Otherways I could do this is just put them into individual parts... that ups the part count, kind of defeats the purpose of combining them during game load. Or I can split the configs into separate files that load multiple variants as individual parts... that would be more or less free as far as computer resources cost, but can add to part list clutter in VAB/SPH especially if you have a lot of part mods running.

[Enceos]

Orbital Tug IVA

Inbefore while we wait when the awesome internal from nli2work comes online I made a quick patch for the IVA lovers.

• Remade the cupola internal to fit the cabin, removed cupola windows from the model
• Placed the portrait cam at a new angle
• Made internal lights more subtle and less distractive
• The front window is clickable to zoom-in the view
• RPM support with autodetection patch
• All textures are referenced from the Squad folder

DOWNLOAD from DROPBOX

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Enceos

[speedwaystar]

having an issue where turning on SAS causes all the RCS thrusters to continuously fire -- fighting one another to keep the prograde vector aligned.

same problem arises in this configuration:

EDIT: although it might be the fault of GravityTurn, according to ExceptionDetector:

that's a lot of exceptions!

uninstalling GravityTurn didn't help.

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by speedwaystar

[Neutrinovore]

1 hour ago, speedwaystar said:

having an issue where turning on SAS causes all the RCS thrusters to continuously fire -- fighting one another to keep the prograde vector aligned.

same problem arises in this configuration:

EDIT: although it might be the fault of GravityTurn, according to ExceptionDetector:

that's a lot of exceptions!

uninstalling GravityTurn didn't help.

 

Yeah, I've experienced this type of thing too.  It happens when you have a small lightweight craft with too much torque for its weight, and/or RCS thrusters that are too strong in the same way.  One thing you can do is tweak down the torque and RCS in flight until you're ready to push something heavy around, then crank them back up when you need them.    Uh, well, I guess you can do that if you have TweakableEverything installed, that is.  Also, if you're using MechJeb I'd guess that you'd have to use the Attitude panel to fine tune the sensitivity of the PID controller as well.

[armegeddon]

4 hours ago, speedwaystar said:

having an issue where turning on SAS causes all the RCS thrusters to continuously fire -- fighting one another to keep the prograde vector aligned.

same problem arises in this configuration:

EDIT: although it might be the fault of GravityTurn, according to ExceptionDetector:

that's a lot of exceptions!

uninstalling GravityTurn didn't help.

 

I experienced a similar effect, but on large ships. The root cause ended up being the flight assist modules from FAR being turned on. Even though they aren't supposed to work in space, they caused mechjeb to have issues with RCS. That, plus inadvertent clipping, would also sometimes cause MechJeb to spin my ships of all sizes at rapidly increasing speed until SAS was turned on to stabilize. Simply making sure no flight assists, from FAR, Pilot Assist, or Atmosphere AutoPilot are active in space caused everything to start working correctly again.

 

Edit:  The GravityTurn exception is caused by GT checking over the ship continuously, even when it isn't running. I get the same thing on spaceplanes and rovers with RCS for stability.  That author needs to get a put in a check for if GT is active instead of running all the time.

Edited March 11, 2016 by armegeddon
GT NRE info

[Jimbodiah]

Excellent mod!!!

Same observation about the SAS with RCS, they fire continously and drain the 150MP in a matter of seconds.

Alse the NV engines burn LF but not Oxidizer, yet there is no option to just choose LF as a fuel.

Looking forward to the next release!

[Enceos]

20 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Excellent mod!!!

Same observation about the SAS with RCS, they fire continously and drain the 150MP in a matter of seconds.

Alse the NV engines burn LF but not Oxidizer, yet there is no option to just choose LF as a fuel.

Looking forward to the next release!

Engines of this vehicle burn both resources. Tweak down your RCS power, cause it's meant for rotating asteroids and other heavy stuff. Rightclick on your part with RCS and move the thrust power slider to 20%, you don't need any mods for that, the slider is stock. This will stop the SAS overcompensation.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Enceos

[nli2work]

SAS over compensate for light parts... it's a long standing issue in stock parts too. I can replicate the issue with the stock Mk1 cockpit on adaptor rig. Setting SAS to anything other than stability assist causes jitter and if RCS is on, will cause continuous firing till Mono is empty. It's less obvious with heavier vehicles. You can try Claw's stock bug fix collection. Aside from that best thing I can suggest is turning off the stronger SAS and RCS until you need it to maneuver large objects. SAS alone on the pod should be more than enough for most other situations.

I'll reduce the pod's SAS strength and see how things work. Will fix the fuel for the engine as well, I didn't realize Squad changed the nuclear engine to LF only.

[Jimbodiah]

When I disable the pod's RCS and add stock thrusters to CoM, then RCS works like a charm. Having RCS at the front and rear of a tug (stock parts) to create a lever when a load is present still gives me a stable ship while docking without the load on it, so I'm thinking it's a balancing issue on this tug (thrust power vs position).

I'll try the thrust slider to see if it helps in the meantime.