Thunderbirds are GO!

[TopHeavy11]

Is this it?

[Logan.Darklighter]

No, but that IS a fascinating design! Some fan's radical take on TB3?

 

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Hmm, no TB6?

[Logan.Darklighter]

6 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Hmm, no TB6?

Sure, why not?
 

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

14 minutes ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

Sure, why not?
 

Looks great!  The struts are a nice touch.

[Logan.Darklighter]

So I'm re-thinking my entire approach to building the Thunderbird 1 replica and one of the main hurdles has been the nose. There's no comparable shape in the form of any mods out there that I'm aware of. Plus the fact that the cockpit hatch is INVERTED to the usual pattern when in horizontal mode - it's on the underside and Scott Tracy appears to exit via the seat being lowered on a robotic rail/arm. This is even more pronounced and detailed in the 2015-16 remake series. 

How the HECK do I accomplish this? 

By wholesale INTELLECTUAL THEFT, that's how!!

Check out this craft here on Kerbal X. That cockpit design is INGENIOUS. Kudos to Yakuzi for the design! 

So - I took the basic idea (*YOINK*) and INVERTED it and added some extra toys and... well, here's a preview of the work in progress. Just the nose so far. But I think it's MUCH better than any previous iteration I've done. And I'm just a little giddy nerd at how classic Thunderbirds the ingress/egress is! 

Amazingly there's still headroom to spare in there!

 

[KamenRiderzero1]

been trying model the thunderbirds myself. painful, but worth it.

[Rath]

I saw TB3 and wondered when we started talking about 1939s Soviet bombers.  :/

I need to stop hanging out with history nerds.  

[KamenRiderzero1]

Oh, on the subject,

http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/655633-thunderbirds-are-go-to-make-us-debut-on-amazon

[Logan.Darklighter]

The above is great news! Thanks! 

I've caught a nasty, NASTY bug over the weekend and it's knocked me nearly out. I'm barely able to auto-pilot through work and then crash into bed as of tonight and that's about it. But I did want to post a picture of how things stand in my WIP on TB-1.

NOTE: the fins at the rear of the ship are PLACEHOLDERS and there only to give me a rough idea of the final overall shape and proportions. I will in fact be making the main "thruster block" as a design pretty close to the original and the Thunderbirds 2015 version. 

And the swing wings are going to work with Infernal Robotics.

Speaking of overall shapes, it's surprisingly HARD to get the Thunderbird 1 shape correct with stock and even mod parts, and I'll tell you why. 

Check out this image of the 2015 TB-1. 

Look at the main body from the red nosecone to the roots of the swing wings. Notice that the shape is NOT just a cone and a straight lined cylinder. But has a subtle curve that widens all the way back. 

Maybe it's just my addled sick brain, but I liken it to the difference between the 1960s Corvette series and the 1980-90s version. There's a subtleness to the curves that's like the fender line of those old cars. 

I'm going to continue with my current version, because I think I've got something that works and WILL work. But I'm seriously at this point considering making a second version of TB-1 that uses the procedural part mod so I can actually get the above shape done right. My current version is going to look good, but it's going to be a little "skinny" by comparison, I think. 

 

[Logan.Darklighter]

So, got some more work done tonight. 

I got the engine block and rear fins about 95% done (some tweaks will be necessary I'm certain after test flights.) 

Now I need to figure out the landing gear so I can actually place it on the runway for a first test flight. 

[Scientia1423]

Looks fantastic!

[Logan.Darklighter]

(Some more work and an edited, "Stalinized" post of over-the-top stress induced trauma later...) 

Okay, yeah. I WAS being stupid with the wing rotation. Namely, it makes life a LOT easier if you don't try to use the rotating washers for swing wings (despite how nicely they fit clipped inside where you wanted them) and just go with the actual HINGE parts instead. They use symmetry naturally rather than forcing the user to try and do something with parts that - I see now in retrospect, were not designed for such things. It took a download or two from Kerbal X of successful swing-wing fighter designs and seeing what THEY did that broke my mental lock. 

Swing wings now fixed. Moving on to other, more fun things, like engine and flight tests. Yay!

Edited April 11, 2016 by Logan.Darklighter
Fixed it.

[Logan.Darklighter]

So having gotten the bugs with IR worked out, it's time for some actual field testing. I don't have the landing gear or VTOL jets installed yet. This will be an un-Kerbaled flight test with no expected landing (revert to hanger after test). 

First a static engine test just to be sure the action groups are doing what I want them to do. 

 

And now for the REAL test. For the classic vertical launch, you set the main center engine to rocket mode and the outer booster jets on afterburner. 

Oh - and for some reason, my winamp player went to THIS on random rotation just as I launched. SWEET.  

Tested the engine block rotation at full power and afterburner to make sure it would work and be stable. There's a BIT of torque wobble when it turns, but nothing serious. Why add this feature? Because the new TOG series does it, and because - having seen it in action - I knew it would come in handy later for placing landing gear and thrusters for VTOL. 

So - how fast DOES TB-1 go? Pretty damn fast! I'm still tweaking the flight profile, but I already got her up to Mach 4+ on her first flight and think I might be able to squeeze out a bit more speed once certain other bugs are fixed (see below). 

 

The booster engines are good for the push above Mach 2+, once at that speed you can turn them off completely, the main engine is more than capable of accelerating from that point on up to top speed and altitude.
 

 

Unfortunately, I still have some fuel flow and overall balance issues. Shortly after the above screen was taken, I ran too low on fuel and the flight envelope got REAL squirrelly.  Ever seen the end of the movie "The Right Stuff" when Yeager uncorks that F-102 Starfighter at 104,000 ft and gets into a tumble he can't get out of? 

Yeah... so that happened... 

 

Lets just say it's a good thing I didn't put a Kerbal in the cockpit...

So basic flight characteristics are sound. Balance/fuel distribution needs some work. And VTOL and landing gear need to be added and tested. 

But so far it's looking REALLY good!  This is one of THE most complicated builds I've ever done. And I'm surprised it's working as well as it is, quite frankly! 

[Logan.Darklighter]

Right, then. Not a lot of time available tonight. Tweaked the balance and proportions. Put some weights in the nose. Replaced the KW Rocketry "Waist Tank" with a Rockomax stock tank. Also placed some VTOL engines prior to testing. Still trying to figure out how to work the landing gear. I might need to fall back on IR Robotics for that... 

This has the advantage of allowing me to use Kerb Paint to color the appropriate pieces since they are stock parts! Just a LITTLE dab of color in the right spots REALLY makes this design POP and brings it that much closer to the original! 

Now I just need to find some "decals" to change into Flags files for use with the Custom Flags mod so I can slap that big number "1" on the main tank and "TB-1" on the tail.

 

 

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

13 hours ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

 

Now I just need to find some "decals" to change into Flags files for use with the Custom Flags mod so I can slap that big number "1" on the main tank and "TB-1" on the tail.

Looking great!  What you need is NEBULA decals.  It either still works in 1.0.5, or there's a patch in the latest posts.

[TopHeavy11]

CHALLENGE!!!

Make some vehicles from the Thunderbirds 2086 series.

If you don't know what that is, GOOGLE!

Edited April 23, 2016 by TopHeavy11

[Logan.Darklighter]

On 4/22/2016 at 8:51 AM, TopHeavy11 said:

CHALLENGE!!!

Make some vehicles from the Thunderbirds 2086 series.

If you don't know what that is, GOOGLE!

Interesting idea, that. And I've considered it certainly! 

One of the main issues I could see right off the bat is that the SHAPES would generally be easy to re-create, but the DETAILS are all in the color and paint. Particularly with TB-1. And TB-2 is so... bland. But the design is so dirt simple and rugged I think it would work nicely. TB-3 though... Yow! What a LAND BATTLESHIP that thing would be! 

Another interesting angle to the Thunderbirds 2086 fleet of vehicles is that... well... it's a FLEET of vehicles! Stuff in the classic Thunderbirds like the elevator cars or the drill machine that's simply carried in TB-2 but never named beyond it's function are actual designated Thunderbird ships. Some would appear in a couple of episodes, but others only would appear in one or only part of one. Anything that had a specialized function was a "Thunderbird" with it's own number. The fleet numbered up to Thunderbird 17!  Lots of interesting ideas to pick from!

http://thunderbirds.wikia.com/wiki/Thunderbirds_2086

[TopHeavy11]

Hey, @Logan.Darklighter, here's some artwork to help you out!

 

Here's a link to some Deviantart recreations for easier KSPcation.

http://haryopanji.deviantart.com/art/Thunderbirds-2086-Vehicles-509368911

And here's a link to some Deviantart art of a mashup of TB86(ThunderBirds 2086) 1, 2, and 3!

http://haryopanji.deviantart.com/art/Thunderbird-1-2-and-3-Link-up-479782818

 

Some of these can be...ah...HUGE...so you might want to download the welding mod and TweakScale for some of these.

Oh, and BDArmory. You NEED this mod to at least try and get close to the shear military might of some of these things. Luckily, the guy who did the artwork also provided armory specifications. Hey, @BahamutoD, it'd be great if you could make some custom weapons for this project!

Edited April 29, 2016 by TopHeavy11

[TopHeavy11]

@Nertea said his Mk4 space-plane fuselage was designed after the original Thunderbird 2. It might aid in the construction of certain 2086 variant vehicles.

[Logan.Darklighter]

On 4/29/2016 at 6:17 AM, TopHeavy11 said:

@Nertea said his Mk4 space-plane fuselage was designed after the original Thunderbird 2. It might aid in the construction of certain 2086 variant vehicles.

Hell, dude - what do you think I made Thunderbird 2 out of? In fact that mod alone INSPIRED this whole process!

Well - I finally have the landing gear figured out. VTOL jets are still giving me problems, but the ones I have are at least able to assist in STOL lift-offs from the runway! 

EDIT: And yes - the entire back end rotates 45 degrees from the "cross" configuration to an "X" and a pair of the rear fins folds in to provide clearance. 

The VTOL flight issue is the last thing I have to solve before I'll feel ready to post the design. Once I'm confident TB-1 can maintain altitude and orientation in a hover then I'll post the design. (Unless you guys would like to work with what's already there and help me figure it out?)

Edited April 30, 2016 by Logan.Darklighter

[selfish_meme]

4 hours ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

Hell, dude - what do you think I made Thunderbird 2 out of? In fact that mod alone INSPIRED this whole process!

Well - I finally have the landing gear figured out. VTOL jets are still giving me problems, but the ones I have are at least able to assist in STOL lift-offs from the runway! 

EDIT: And yes - the entire back end rotates 45 degrees from the "cross" configuration to an "X" and a pair of the rear fins folds in to provide clearance. 

The VTOL flight issue is the last thing I have to solve before I'll feel ready to post the design. Once I'm confident TB-1 can maintain altitude and orientation in a hover then I'll post the design. (Unless you guys would like to work with what's already there and help me figure it out?)

Amazing stuff

[TopHeavy11]

5 hours ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

EDIT: And yes - the entire back end rotates 45 degrees from the "cross" configuration to an "X" and a pair of the rear fins folds in to provide clearance. 

The VTOL flight issue is the last thing I have to solve before I'll feel ready to post the design. Once I'm confident TB-1 can maintain altitude and orientation in a hover then I'll post the design. (Unless you guys would like to work with what's already there and help me figure it out?)

Maybe a mod list and savegame would help, and since you seem so keen on rotating parts, what about another one of those "cockpits" with a powerful engine concealed inside, with weaker engines on a swing-down 0-45 degrees rotating for flight and landing.

5 hours ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

Hell, dude - what do you think I made Thunderbird 2 out of? In fact that mod alone INSPIRED this whole process!

So? If you can use it for (O for Original) O-TB2, than you can use it for 86-TB2, 3, 17, doesn't matter!

Also, for 86-TB3, you might want to implore the usage of  Kerbal Base Systems...and LOTS of structural panels.

[Logan.Darklighter]

2 hours ago, TopHeavy11 said:

Maybe a mod list and savegame would help, and since you seem so keen on rotating parts, what about another one of those "cockpits" with a powerful engine concealed inside, with weaker engines on a swing-down 0-45 degrees rotating for flight and landing.

So? If you can use it for (O for Original) O-TB2, than you can use it for 86-TB2, 3, 17, doesn't matter!

Also, for 86-TB3, you might want to implore the usage of  Kerbal Base Systems...and LOTS of structural panels.

 

I'll be posting the design at Kerbal X and linking it back here, not to worry! So a full mod list will be generated by K-X by default. But I can tell you right away that the major parts mods include B-9 and B-9 Procedural wings, Infernal Robotics, Near Future Construction, Mk 4 Spaceplane Mod, Adjustable landing gear Lackluster Labs and KW rocketry. 

Mods you WILL NEED in order to fly the thing (and I'm not kidding, you WILL need them) are TAC Fuel Balancer, Mech-Jeb and Throttle Controlled Avionics. At least for anything involving VTOL operations. And that includes the basics like take-offs and landings in horizontal flight mode. Because even though the landing gear works, in NO WAY would I trust it to keep the craft pointing straight or not flex during a standard landing/take-off. You'll need the VTOL jets working for that. 

In fact when I post this I'm going to put up a warning in general:  FOR EXPERT PILOTS. 

You know, I was going to use the small cargo bay behind the cockpit for things like winches or perhaps docking ports. But I'm thinking that maybe I should just concentrate on getting the darn thing to FLY right first. To that end, I could possibly pull that cargo bay one segment back and pull the existing fuel tank behind it forward. That would improve balance and instead of a cargo bay, I could use that section as the place to fit in a more powerful central VTOL engine! The only problem is that I'd have to do a LOT of work redesigning where to place all the Infernal Robotics parts that are clipped in to that tank and alter the placement of the swing wings. Gah... Let me think on it some more. 

I like the idea of using KBS to make some of the shapes for TB-86 craft. That makes a lot of sense! 

[TopHeavy11]

19 hours ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

I like the idea of using KBS to make some of the shapes for TB-86 craft. That makes a lot of sense!

Why thank you!

 

19 hours ago, Logan.Darklighter said:

Gah... Let me think on it some more

Yeah. That's a good idea with some of these things...