My Vision for Exploration of Space

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Pipcard said:

Stuff like this just proves that this is the most anti-space "spaceflight" forum I have ever seen. "We won't get to Mars in this century, nothing is ever going to be possible, why bother, we should all just give up because it is all pointless."

That's is because this is the only forum on the Kerbin Earth where people indeed tried to build a spacebase realistically...

[kiwi1960]

23 hours ago, fredinno said:

"The reason it will not be the USA is because they are so poor they cannot do anything in space anymore and lack the political (and public) will to do so, in fact, to make it worse, they are using NASA as a weapon... they cannot legally work with China on any thing to do with space.... and really, that is sad, Space programs could be used to unite nations, the peaceful exploration of space for scientific gains.... but it won't happen."

NASA has less than 0.5% US budget. And it still has an equivilant NASA budget of all other space agencies in the world, COMBINED. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies

NASA is wealthy compared to CNSA.

 

All that list shows me is... nothing. Most nations who have a space program do not fund their empire over multiple buildings all over the world.... or hire so many to run it... or fund so many research projects (like warp drive) ... and most nations make their money, really, from selling launch space. In 1969, NASA had just put a man on the Moon, things were looking good... but sadly, that was also at the height of the Vietnam war, the people thought Earth was more important than space... the public support NASA had when Armstrong stepped on the Moon didn't last long, while a majority of Americans watched that landing, by the time the last man walked on the Moon, barely anyone was watching it on TV, the media barely covered it... not even Apollo 13 could save it.... they barely had the money to get the Shuttle into space... even so, while they were proud, most Americans thought it was a waste of money....

Till.... today.... the space community got exited about the Pluto photos.... a week before, nothing... now... nothing....

NASA's budget is barely enough to keep it active, many have been laid off... they needed Russia to help with the ISS while they took time to fund a new capsule... as opposed to funding it and getting it ready ASAP....

While the NASA budget is "wealthy" according to you, in real life terms... its NOTHING.... other nations have more for actual launches....

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Maximus97

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

12 hours ago, RainDreamer said:

I think you, as the emperor of giant squids, should order your squids to develop space programs.

Great idea.

 

9 hours ago, Nibb31 said:

Hey, being realistic is just understanding how the world around you actually works. Sorry if it sounds pessimistic, but you won't change anything by ignoring politics, economics and society. 

If you want to go to Mars this century, then you need to find a compelling reason for society to divert the R&D and resources to that goal instead of other stuff. Wishful thinking won't be enough.

 

Good point there. How about materials research, asteroid and lunar mining, making room for an expanding population, uniting the world, and space-based solar power for a reason.

 

 

4 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

All that list shows me is... nothing. Most nations who have a space program do not fund their empire over multiple buildings all over the world.... or hire so many to run it... or fund so many research projects (like warp drive) ... and most nations make their money, really, from selling launch space. In 1969, NASA had just put a man on the Moon, things were looking good... but sadly, that was also at the height of the Vietnam war, the people thought Earth was more important than space... the public support NASA had when Armstrong stepped on the Moon didn't last long, while a majority of Americans watched that landing, by the time the last man walked on the Moon, barely anyone was watching it on TV, the media barely covered it... not even Apollo 13 could save it.... they barely had the money to get the Shuttle into space... even so, while they were proud, most Americans thought it was a waste of money....

Till.... today.... the space community got exited about the Pluto photos.... a week before, nothing... now... nothing....

The USA has, I repeat, lost the will for NASA. Its budget is barely enough to keep it active, many have been laid off... they needed Russia to help with the ISS while they took time to fund a new capsule... as opposed to funding it and getting it ready ASAP....

While the NASA budget is "wealthy" according to you, in real life terms... its NOTHING.... other nations have more for actual launches....

 

STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP.

Be optimistic. What is wrong with my vision? Let Werhner von Braun motivate you a bit.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Maximus97

[fredinno]

13 hours ago, RainDreamer said:

I think you, as the emperor of giant squids, should order your squids to develop space programs.

Giant squids aren;t intelligent enough to build rockets.

 

3 hours ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

DON'T START

It already has.

3 hours ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

Good point there. How about materials research, asteroid and lunar mining, making room for an expanding population, uniting the world, and space-based solar power for a reason.

Those have been there since the beginning. They aren't enough, because they are all long-term, not short term, benefits. Also, space solar is a wet dream, and materials research is too expensive to be viable for more than just government agencies (AKA ISS)

3 hours ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

Be optimistic. What is wrong with my vision? Let Werhner von Braun motivate you a bit.

Even Von Braun's plans were less optimistic than this. Seriously, over-optimism at the end of Apollo era led to the Shuttle (a disaster of a program). The plan given to Nixon (the STS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Transportation_System ) was over-ambitious as a whole (and is actually less ambitious than yours ), and demanded a budget greater than the Apollo peak funding. They learned the hard way evolutionary > revolutionary.

10 hours ago, Pipcard said:

Stuff like this just proves that this is the most anti-space "spaceflight" forum I have ever seen. "We won't get to Mars in this century, nothing is ever going to be possible, why bother, we should all just give up because it is all pointless."

Also, blame the fact that we actually know what it's like to build a space base via KSP, and not just via theory. (well, KSP is theory, but still...)

Hey, @Pipcard, when do you think you will be making Orbiter movies again? I really liked them.

9 hours ago, Pipcard said:

Then what do you think we should do in space? Nothing?

Evolutionary development. I'd be happy if we saw reusable, economical, ion space tugs, and repair. Moon stations and bases don't hurt.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

While the NASA budget is "wealthy" according to you, in real life terms... its NOTHING.... other nations have more for actual launches....

No they don't. Did you look at my link showing the space agency budgets?

And yes, it's not much on the grand scheme of things

This is just a transitioning period. Someone would have said the same in 1976, after ASTP.

And if they didn't get to the ISS in any way, the US would not have any astronauts on a station they paid the most for. I don't think anyone wants that, after all the time and effort went into the ISS.

 

5 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

and most nations make their money, really, from selling launch space.

That ends up increasing launch costs, and was a key reason why the US lost the lead in space launches. We lost more money coming into the economy overall by doing that by losing the international market for launches. SpaceX is bringing it back, but that was only possible because it was a private nation. Also, it's decreasing launch costs across the board. I think that was a good trade-off.

 

5 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

or hire so many to run it... or fund so many research projects (like warp drive) ...

Indeed, it has a larger budget, and the largest manned space program of all.

5 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

Most nations who have a space program do not fund their empire over multiple buildings all over the world....

Can you show me these NASA world bases? Does NASA have facilities in China? Too much infrastructure in NASA is a problem, but it's a problem for Russia too.

5 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

The USA has, I repeat, lost the political and public will for NASA

BTW, it never had it (except in the space race). Space is very low on the list for prioriites in the budget. I want 1% US budget for NASA, just as much as you. We'd actually get SLS flying with men in a year then.

 

@Emperor of the Titan Squid

Also, Manned Venus Landings are impossible within this century. If you want to see why, watch this KSP RSS video:

You literally need a nuclear Saturn V in orbit to make it possible.

[Tex]

Temporarily closed for thread surgery.

This thread, as many have before it, has been tainted with political discussions and a few mild personal attacks, both of which are forbbiden content according to rule 2.2. I've taken the time and removed offending portions of posts to make this a clearer discussion about the future of spaceflight, so please refrain from political discussion when talking about this topic.

Thanks a bunch. Thread is now out of surgery and on its way to recovery. Please remember to do your PT exercises every day.

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

23 hours ago, fredinno said:

Giant squids aren;t intelligent enough to build rockets.

By Titan, i mean from Titan. what about this is impossible, apart from the Venus thing?

[fredinno]

10 hours ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

By Titan, i mean from Titan. what about this is impossible, apart from the Venus thing?

There is not enough energy for intelligent life on Titan. Brains need lots of power.

And we already told you what about it is impossible, you are just not listening.

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

When i said Venus misson i meant orbital, with a short surface excursion. By shor i mean like, an hour, to test a knew lander.

[YumonStudios]

10 hours ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

When i said Venus misson i meant orbital, with a short surface excursion. By shor i mean like, an hour, to test a knew lander.

Even a short surface mission is improbable, you basically need to create a extraterrestrial submarine, and for what?. And forget about doing an EVA.

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

13 hours ago, YumonStudios said:

Even a short surface mission is improbable, you basically need to create a extraterrestrial submarine, and for what?. And forget about doing an EVA.

This would be in 2040. Think about the materials we would have.

[insert_name]

1 hour ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

This would be in 2040. Think about the materials we would have.

this is space, we don't use cutting edge stuff that could fail, we use reliable, tested equipment. So we probably would only be willing to use materials that we have right now. I also don't see any material that could protect you from 500c while allowing you to move, that can withstand sulfuric acid, coming in 25 years. Also do you expect astronauts to lug around the most op ac unit ever made?

[Butterbar]

5 hours ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

This would be in 2040. Think about the materials we would have.

Nothing we know of today is possible to use in a Venus surface mission.  And then think about the testing, the red tape, the bureaucracy, and the fact that said dream materials and funding would be much better used to build infrastructure on Mars and the Moon as well as pushing humanity into the Outer Solar system than planting a flag onto a literal hellhole of a planet.  Anything we can do on the Venusian surface can be accomplished by probes.  Manned missions are expensive and dangerous, and their intent is to go to places where humans can someday colonize (Apollo program was build-up to ALSS Lunar Base, Proenct Constellation was build-up to Lunar Outpost, NASA Mars Direct has ultimate goal of a Mars base), which is something that Venus is not.  There aren't much in the way of resources on Venus that we can't get elsewhere.  It is a poor target for a manned mission and even poorer target for colonies. 

There is also no political support for a Venus mission, and the fact that the United States Government would rather fund studies on *Interstellar Travel* and outposts in the Outer Solar System rather than a Venus surface mission shows how unlikely we are to land on Venus in this century or the next.  Venus is much more dangerous than Mars, and I'd bet that we will have bases in the Outer Solar System before we ever see a flag on Venus.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Seems reasonable.

However, I think that SpaceX's MCT/BFR will be developed at the same time, and well before a federal NTR MTV.

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

19 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Seems reasonable.

However, I think that SpaceX's MCT/BFR will be developed at the same time, and well before a federal NTR MTV.

Actually its a mutinational ntr mtv.

 

On 4/10/2016 at 11:07 AM, insert_name said:

this is space, we don't use cutting edge stuff that could fail, we use reliable, tested equipment. So we probably would only be willing to use materials that we have right now. I also don't see any material that could protect you from 500c while allowing you to move, that can withstand sulfuric acid, coming in 25 years. Also do you expect astronauts to lug around the most op ac unit ever made?

I do see that coming, and yes, i do expect the ac unit thing.

[insert_name]

6 minutes ago, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

Actually its a mutinational ntr mtv.

 

I do see that coming, and yes, i do expect the ac unit thing.

you realize that most large a/c units weigh more than people, and venus's gravity isn't that low