[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[Vanguard-01]

Is there anyone who has played with both this mod and BTSM and can comment on how "tight" this mod feels in terms of progression?

[Box of Stardust]

40 minutes ago, Vanguard-01 said:

Is there anyone who has played with both this mod and BTSM and can comment on how "tight" this mod feels in terms of progression?

Doesn't look like it. Try it yourself. I imagine it would be pretty decent, but I'd be more worried about mod conflicts. 

[Vanguard-01]

Just now, Box of Stardust said:

Doesn't look like it. Try it yourself. I imagine it would be pretty decent, but I'd be more worried about mod conflicts. 

Oh sorry, to clarify i mean anyone who has played this and BTSM separately. Im preparing to build a mod pack for my friends (yes i know BTSM is pretty mod-unfriendly) and was just wondering if this mod had that same feel as BTSM, where things are not stupidly easy and there is a meaningful progression

[Box of Stardust]

Just now, Vanguard-01 said:

Oh sorry, to clarify i mean anyone who has played this and BTSM separately. Im preparing to build a mod pack for my friends (yes i know BTSM is pretty mod-unfriendly) and was just wondering if this mod had that same feel as BTSM, where things are not stupidly easy and there is a meaningful progression

Ah. Well, this mod doesn't affect the tech tree progression too much; it does move around some science parts and switches from manned start to unmanned start. It's not really as hardcore to start off in Kerbalism as it is in BTSM (though I've never played it; only know things about it).

 

It's actually a decent mix between stock and some realism. I'd put it... probably between stock and BTSM in terms of progression. After all, Kerbalism isn't just about the progression, but also the mission gameplay, whereas BTSM has some gameplay altering things, but I think is more focused on the progression. 

[Enceos]

1 hour ago, Vanguard-01 said:

Is there anyone who has played with both this mod and BTSM and can comment on how "tight" this mod feels in terms of progression?

You know what makes progress easier/harder? ) The amount of science you can get from Mun and Minmus. I installed a mod called Celestial Body Science Editor (by DMagic),  and reduced science gain from Mun and Minmus by 70% to encourage myself to get science from other planets. That has really made my progress "tight", try it out.

[Jacke]

25 minutes ago, Vanguard-01 said:

...yes i know BTSM is pretty mod-unfriendly....

BTSM is a total conversion mod designed to give a challenging career.  Its author @FlowerChild want to provide a gameplay experience that he feels is right and interesting to him.  He works a lot to achieve good balance and progression, often removing stock items because they can be a problem for his goals until he can find ways to work them in.  Gameplay is its goal, realism not so much.  FC also completely reworks the tech tree (including renaming and dropping nodes) and contracts to guide the gameplay over the length of a game.  Because FC is going for a gameplay experience, he can keep many things simple so that it's easier for him to design and us to play, because a simple idea is sufficient to affect gameplay.  For example, BTSM just has a simple singular Life Support resource, but its mass is significant and when a game advances to manned interplanetary missions, life support is a crucial planning issue for every mission.

In that context, virtually any part mod and most other mods will sabotage BTSM's challenges (when they don't break because of how BTSM is different from stock), parts to a great extent, other mods to a varying lesser degree.  Total conversion mods in any game are usually like this.

Kerbalism is a bunch of features added to stock that are modeled on things in real world space travel, but in a Kerbal context.  There's a lot in there.  What it appeals to is something a lot of mods for sandbox and stock career do, giving something new and cool to game with.

There's enough similarity between them (changing a lot of things in the stock game) that I can make some predictions about Kerbalism.  What can be a problem with so many extras and changes thrown in is that they can interact in strange ways, not to mention break because of having so many interacting with the rest of the game.  With the fine tuning on these extras, it's likely that Kerbalism in career or sandbox can quickly switch between being too easy to being impossible.  I know many of the difficulties that FC has putting out many BTSM releases as KSP changed and he developed his mod.  Kerbalism is likely to have similar ones.

 

[DarkonZ]

@Jacke

Impossible to use BTSM with kerbalism or not? I've heard of it, just never tried it.

[Squelch7]

5 hours ago, Deaddin said:

Having some trouble with this Mod on a fresh 1.1 KSP install.

1. The first Oxygen is somewhat high in the tech tree, and the mod did not include oxygen in the default capsules. Luckily, the CO2 scrubber works, but eventually my Kerbal suffocated while flying around in an aircraft at 12km.

2. The only antenna that had the Relay option, was the one included in the Parts folder. The antennas that are located in the SQUAD parts folder did not get edited by the mod, and thus have no relay option. I copy & pasted the MODULE from the Short Antenna CFG file into the other antenna CFG files, and they were able to enable the Relay function, but they have the same range as the basic 8 antenna.

 

You've installed the mod without first installing ModuleManager. I know, because I did the same thing. Once you install ModuleManager, you'll find that all stock antennas are Relays, and that all capsules have a small amount of Oxygen and Food.

@ShotgunNinja, I know "requires ModuleManager" is written on the OP, but is it possible to detect MM's presence at startup and issue a warning if it's not present? I've counted at least 3 of us here who have made this mistake, and presumably it's happened to others who don't frequent the forums. That is, if it's even programmatically feasible...

[Squelch7]

5 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

Ah. Well, this mod doesn't affect the tech tree progression too much; it does move around some science parts and switches from manned start to unmanned start....

Wait, what? Kerbalism doesn't switch to unmanned start. Or were you talking about BTSM?

[dboi88]

13 hours ago, Flashheart said:

The only thing I would suggest is maybe writing the Malfunctions into the vessel notes ?  At the moment I'm scribing on a notepad, unless I've missed something that's already logging them.

Yes this would be great, furiously clicking around trying to find the malfunction is a bit annoying cos i always forget to note what that last warning was.

@ShotgunNinja

 

Absolutely great work here. This mod is so much better than having a mix and match of mods. Yes you lose some functionality but the balance of simplicity and function of it all is amazing.

I'd also like to add that i'm mighty impressed with your attitude towards everyone. The way you've dealt with all the questions and constant requests for features you've already said are a No is commendable. Not many Mod developers are as reasonable and pleasant as yourself. I hope you'll be around for a long time to come.

 

I have experience with Models and Textures so if you need any parts just hit me up i'd be happy to knock anything you need up for you.

[Awaras]

5 hours ago, Enceos said:

You know what makes progress easier/harder? ) The amount of science you can get from Mun and Minmus. I installed a mod called Celestial Body Science Editor (by DMagic),  and reduced science gain from Mun and Minmus by 70% to encourage myself to get science from other planets. That has really made my progress "tight", try it out.

And especially kerbin science gain. In stock you can get pretty far ahead on tech just by puttering around the KSC. In BTSM you dont get any science from anything on the surface of kerbin. The first science you can get is doing pressure and temp readings from above 15km altitude...

[JamesGold49]

Great Mod!!! The perfect balance for realism.  

[danfarnsy]

3 hours ago, Squelch7 said:

You've installed the mod without first installing ModuleManager. I know, because I did the same thing. Once you install ModuleManager, you'll find that all stock antennas are Relays, and that all capsules have a small amount of Oxygen and Food.

@ShotgunNinja, I know "requires ModuleManager" is written on the OP, but is it possible to detect MM's presence at startup and issue a warning if it's not present? I've counted at least 3 of us here who have made this mistake, and presumably it's happened to others who don't frequent the forums. That is, if it's even programmatically feasible...

Even better, MM's license permits redistribution, and most mods which require it also bundle it. Including MM is an easy fix, and it doesn't cause conflicts with differing versions of MM.

[cy4n]

Maybe a custom "Life Support" tab?

MODCAT
{
    folderName = Kerbalism/Parts
    normalPath = Kerbalism/Textures/Category
    selectedPath = Kerbalism/Textures/Category
    title = Life Support
}

 

[crapstar]

@ShotgunNinja Is there a way for me to buy you a cup of coffee or something?

[Melfice]

1 hour ago, danfarnsy said:

Even better, MM's license permits redistribution, and most mods which require it also bundle it. Including MM is an easy fix, and it doesn't cause conflicts with differing versions of MM.

It might do.
I've had games do very weird stuff when two different versions of MM were loaded/present.

[dboi88]

Just now, Melfice said:

It might do.
I've had games do very weird stuff when two different versions of MM were loaded/present.

It used to but this was specifically fixed quite a few versions back.

[Box of Stardust]

6 hours ago, Squelch7 said:

Wait, what? Kerbalism doesn't switch to unmanned start. Or were you talking about BTSM?

Wait, it doesn't?

 

I think I got screwed up a bit, since I also have ETT installed. Whoops. It does move around the science stuff though, I think. 

[dboi88]

I'm not sure if you would call it a bug but if you copy the updated version and replace existing files instead of deleting and replacing with the new folders it removes all contracts on any save game that you load, it took me a while to pin it down. This can be reliable repeated.

 

Not sure if this is something you can fix or if just place a prominent a warning for idiots like me not to do that. I've luckily got a backup so all's well.

[Nansuchao]

21 minutes ago, dboi88 said:

I'm not sure if you would call it a bug but if you copy the updated version and replace existing files instead of deleting and replacing with the new folders it removes all contracts on any save game that you load, it took me a while to pin it down. This can be reliable repeated.

 

Not sure if this is something you can fix or if just place a prominent a warning for idiots like me not to do that. I've luckily got a backup so all's well.

It is never a good idea to update a mod overwriting his files. Delete the complete folder and install the new version is the best way, for every mod.

[sp1989]

I have to test this mod but from the description it seems you have created the holy grail of life support mods. @alexustas would do well to incorporate this into KONQUEST when ever he start working on it again. 

[Jacke]

11 hours ago, DarkonZ said:

@Jacke

Impossible to use BTSM with kerbalism or not? I've heard of it, just never tried it.

It would be very hard to use BTSM and Kerbalism together.  Both change a lot of stock KSP and neither is designed with the other in mind.  Conflicts are almost certain.  The game would likely be unplayable.  More details in the spoiler.

Spoiler

With both installed, both will try to change many features, sometimes the same features, as well as introducing similar features (both have life support) or features that will conflict with the other (e.g. Kerbalism's challenges versus BTSM's tight gameplay).  No telling without extensive study or testing what would be the result.  Both are designed only with stock and their own separate lists of required and recommended mods.

BTSM has gameplay with a series of challenges throughout the career, in the form of what parts are available to make rockets to do what contracts are available and what science experiments can be run in order to earn funds and science to progress.  The changes from Kerbalism would change what parts are available as well as change the nature of the challenges, maybe making things too easy or even trivial, and likely at times making the game impossible.

To make them work together without conflict would be designing a mod combination that isn't quite either, in some ways harder than designing a mod, as the combo would have to be checked and updated whenever any of stock KSP, BTSM, or Kerbalism change.  It would need familiarity with both mods independently, both as they play and as they are designed.  It would require adding metamod components, at least Module Manager scripts, for both.  That may not be enough and it might require coding a plugin to sort things out.  And there's no guarantee of getting anything playable or enjoyable after a lot of work.

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Jacke

[Squelch7]

3 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

Wait, it doesn't?

 

I think I got screwed up a bit, since I also have ETT installed. Whoops. It does move around the science stuff though, I think. 

Yeah, it switches the thermometer and atmospheric pressure gauge with the mystery goo and materials bay, IIRC. That's pretty much it, though.

[Norcalplanner]

I've played both BTSM and Kerbalism at different times. I prefer Kerbalism. The whole potato battery thing, with it taking a really long time to get the first solar panels, meant that BTSM was one of the grindiest careers I've ever played. I did appreciate other new lower tech parts, just not the batteries.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Norcalplanner

[veritassapere]

On 4/27/2016 at 4:24 PM, cicatrix said:

From water  Mine ice, melt it, decompose, get O2 + H2 as a bonus.

What mods do I need in order to do this? Or does kerbalism already support this? Since having to find water on planets which I can then use for life support and fuel is certainly a good recipe for fun.