The Grand KSP 1.1 Discussion Thread

[Alshain]

2 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

All,

 I'm trying a new fix for the gear skittering problem. If you have a moment, please give it a go and report back your results.

 

Thanks,
-Slashy

What are you calling skittering?  Is what you see in my video above the same thing or is that a different issue?

Edited April 23, 2016 by Alshain

[GoSlash27]

4 minutes ago, regex said:

Make no mistake, the wheels still need work to handle multiple edge cases but, by and large, they're perfectly fine for general usage right now.

regex,

 This may vary according to user. Before I started playing with the gear settings, the LY-01 was completely useless to me no matter what I tried to do with it. I've seen others report no problems.

Best,
-Slashy

[regex]

Just now, GoSlash27 said:

This may vary according to user. Before I started playing with the gear settings, the LY-01 was completely useless to me no matter what I tried to do with it. I've seen others report no problems

I doubt it.  I think it has more to do with the colliders it uses and how people place them.  Notice how the wheels are placed on both those craft I posted: zero camber or toe-in/toe-out.  Until the colliders are fixed to handle edge cases you should strive to play to the wheel's orientation.

Wheels are fine, until you try to get fancy.  I've been told not to use clipping, now I'm telling people to play to the wheel's strengths.

[GoSlash27]

2 minutes ago, Alshain said:

What are you calling skittering?  Is what you see in my video above the same thing or is that a different issue?

Alshain,

 It's a completely different problem.

Upon spawning, the wheel vibrates rapidly between clipping into the surface and fully compressing. The vessel slides around on the surface and bounces, possibly flipping the craft. It is impossible to hold the craft still, even with parking brakes engaged. That's what I refer to as "skittering". I have not experienced the problem in your video.

Best,
-Slashy

[Alshain]

Just now, regex said:

I doubt it.  I think it has more to do with the colliders it uses and how people place them.  Notice how the wheels are placed on both those craft I posted: zero camber or toe-in/toe-out.  Until the colliders are fixed to handle edge cases you should strive to play to the wheel's orientation.

Wheels are fine, until you try to get fancy.  I've been told not to use clipping, now I'm telling people to play to the wheel's strengths.

What I'm seeing is it is a little inward from the wheels orientation.  I had the wheels perfectly straight, but I moved them as you see in basic.syntax's image and that fixed it, which makes the wheels look as though they are pointed inward a little.

[regex]

Just now, Alshain said:

What I'm seeing is it is a little inward from the wheels orientation.  I had the wheels perfectly straight, but I moved them as you see in basic.syntax's image and that fixed it, which makes the wheels look as though they are pointed inward a little.

Well, whatever works for you.  Kind of reminds me of Mainsail dancing before the joint strength was fixed.

[GoSlash27]

4 minutes ago, regex said:

I doubt it.  I think it has more to do with the colliders it uses and how people place them.  Notice how the wheels are placed on both those craft I posted: zero camber or toe-in/toe-out.  Until the colliders are fixed to handle edge cases you should strive to play to the wheel's orientation.

Wheels are fine, until you try to get fancy.  I've been told not to use clipping, now I'm telling people to play to the wheel's strengths.

I'm certain the wheels are not "fine". I think you're just not experiencing the same phenomenon that others are reporting. You'd definitely know it if you were.

Best,
-Slashy

[regex]

1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

I'm certain the wheels are not "fine". I think you're just not experiencing the same phenomenon that others are reporting. You'd definitely know it if you were.

People tell me the tier 1 runway is crap too but I seem to be able to use it just fine with those supposedly "bugged" wheels.  vOv

[GoSlash27]

Just now, regex said:

People tell me the tier 1 runway is crap too but I seem to be able to use it just fine with those supposedly "bugged" wheels.  vOv

Well bully for you

 I can also use the tier 1 runway now that I have fixed the problem *I* was seeing. Clearly it's not the same as your problem (or lack thereof), because in my case the runway didn't matter. The craft would spawn, skitter around, flip inverted, and explode. This is *before* it started rolling.

 If you haven't seen this happen yourself, then you have no frame of reference to comment on this problem.

 

[regex]

Just now, GoSlash27 said:

 If you haven't seen this happen yourself, then you have no frame of reference to comment on this problem.

Then perhaps it belongs in a bug report or support forum, and not in General Discussion?

Forgot your sig, too.

[GoSlash27]

Just now, regex said:

Then perhaps it belongs in a bug report or support forum, and not in General Discussion?

Forgot your sig, too.

It *is* in the bug report forum. Squad doesn't have a fix for it. That's why I'm working to come up with one.

 

[Alshain]

10 minutes ago, regex said:

People tell me the tier 1 runway is crap too but I seem to be able to use it just fine with those supposedly "bugged" wheels.  vOv

Lol, that is a different issue entirely.  The wheels are just bugged, the runway is bad game design.  I can land on the tier 1 runway too, but I still think it shouldn't be the way it is.  It makes no sense to start beginners out on something more difficult and then make it easier as the game progresses.  But that is another discussion entirely as well.

[regex]

4 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

It *is* in the bug report forum. Squad doesn't have a fix for it.

Squad is probably working on it.  Have faith.

[GoSlash27]

1 minute ago, regex said:

Squad is probably working on it.  Have faith.

Gee, thanks

Any more useless advice to pass on about a bug you are totally unfamiliar with, or is that it?

[regex]

1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

Gee, thanks

Any more useless advice to pass on about a bug you are totally unfamiliar with, or is that it?

Nope.  Anymore useless back-and-forth on an issue that clearly not everyone experiences and that could best be fixed by reporting findings directly to Squad in the appropriate places?

[basic.syntax]

12 minutes ago, Alshain said:

What I'm seeing is it is a little inward from the wheels orientation.  I had the wheels perfectly straight, but I moved them as you see in basic.syntax's image and that fixed it, which makes the wheels look as though they are pointed inward a little.

Also moving the wheels further behind COM seems to help with swaying. I moved the wheels back to straight up/down & maintained fair stability.  Wheels are like "the new aero" of v1.0. New physics changes for us to puzzle out & find equilibrium points. 

But if wheels are placed too far behind COM, craft won't lift off so easily  

[GoSlash27]

1 minute ago, regex said:

Nope.  Anymore useless back-and-forth on an issue that clearly not everyone experiences and that could best be fixed by reporting findings directly to Squad in the appropriate places?

Not with you, no. So if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to work looking for a solution to a problem you don't believe exists, but still feel the need to comment on.

[Alshain]

2 minutes ago, basic.syntax said:

Also moving the wheels further behind COM seems to help with swaying. I moved the wheels back to straight up/down & maintained fair stability.  Wheels are like "the new aero" of v1.0. New physics changes for us to puzzle out & find equilibrium points. 

But if wheels are placed too far behind COM, craft won't lift off so easily  

Well, the problem there is if you move them too far back you won't get the nice fulcrum action when taking off.

 

EDIT: I just saw your small text.  Sorry, my eyes suck so that small text is hardly visible to me.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Alshain

[Mike Mars]

43 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

Not with you, no. So if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to work looking for a solution to a problem you don't believe exists, but still feel the need to comment on.

GoSlash,

I am experiencing the same problems with wheels since upgrading to 1.1 that many others have encountered.

Thank you for your efforts in trying to develop a fix.

MM

 

[Pthigrivi]

Yeah I had a crazy deadline this week but finally playing with it tonight and a) yeah, the wheels have some issues. I'm sure they're working on it, b) the memory improvements are fantastic, and c) I effing love some of the new UI changes, especially the trajectory fade and being able to make the right-clicky dialog boxes persistent. Its killer.

[mcirish3]

@Alshain  I don't disagree with you but your video them plain shimmied exactly like in 1.0.5, I guess I don't see how it different.  But then again I haven't tried to make a plane yet in 1.1 so I probably should shut up.  Also your point about the newbie runway being illogical and silly is spot on!

Edited April 23, 2016 by mcirish3

[MaxPeck]

53 minutes ago, Mike Mars said:

GoSlash,

I am experiencing the same problems with wheels since upgrading to 1.1 that many others have encountered.

Thank you for your efforts in trying to develop a fix.

MM

 

Ditto here.  I'm experiencing it with all of the landing gear, not just the light ones.  Makes aircraft almost completely useless right now, which is depressing to me, because for me it's one of the highlights of the game.

Digging the improved performance overall though, game really flies now (no pun intended).

[Alshain]

19 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

@Alshain  I don't disagree with you but your video them plain shimmied exactly like in 1.0.5, I guess I don't see how it different.  But then again I haven't tried to make a plane yet in 1.1 so I probably should shut up.  Also your point about the newbie runway being illogical and silly is spot on!

That exact plane worked fine in 1.0.5.

[Jetski]

1 hour ago, Mike Mars said:

GoSlash,

I am experiencing the same problems with wheels since upgrading to 1.1 that many others have encountered.

Thank you for your efforts in trying to develop a fix.

MM

 

@GoSlash27 Same problem here.  A very basic science rover (not even trying to fly) jitters and explodes no matter what I do.  It's just a cockpit, a sci Jr, and a fuel tank.  I attach the LY-01 wheels to it, it skitters around and cannot be stopped or controlled.  Brakes are useless.

Screenshots are a lousy way to show this, video would be better, but you can see the rover has moved.  Jeb EVAd and was thrown into the air.  If this is done on the starting runway, I explode quite quickly.

 

 

[mcirish3]

28 minutes ago, Alshain said:

That exact plane worked fine in 1.0.5.

Went and tested things and wheels do behave even less like the real world equivalent than they did in 1.0.5.  The first set of wheels you get is completely jacked up!  The LY-05 is clip into the ground, and most of the time blows up when you initiate physics.  The other ones(I forget their name) initiate horrible wobbles much worse that 1.0.5 and then promptly destroy themselves. I am sure I could make something that works to fly but would I want to NO!  Wheels in general are wonky in the extreme based on the other ones I tried also.  It is like they are both on glass but then suddenly they will stick like glue.  I am luckily a rocket man so not a big deal to me but wow I bet the spaceplane guys are mostly livid.  I hope rovers are not too horrible since I need to make some of them now for my vanilla play through.

Edit:  Oh ya breaks, do the new ones even work.  Even the more advanced wheels seemed to work poorly considering in the real world they can hold a jet in place at full thrust.

In short if real world wheels worked this way I probably would not make it to work alive, I live in MN USA and am no stranger to Icy roads but these wheel behave as if they were on a an ice rink, even with high friction.  

Edited April 23, 2016 by mcirish3