The battery that can last a lifetime

[Spaceception]

Well? What do you think?

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/new-battery-can-be-recharged-hundreds-thousands-times

[cantab]

Consumer electronics won't care about it. What counts is the energy the battery stores fully charged when new. Indeed it's in the smartphone makers' interests if the batteries wear out over a few years, as a form of planned obsolescence.

[insert_name]

It would be great for spacecraft

[wumpus]

Is it a battery or a capacitor?  A battery stores electricity chemically, then reverses the chemical process to release the energy.  A capacitor stores the charge on plates, then returns the electrons as the voltage changes.  Note that a similar device would be an inductor, which stores current (well, flux.  But in practice it stores current).

Capacitors have essentially infinite lifespans (assuming you don't go anywhere near the voltage rating on the side.  Plenty of computer motherboards have been repaired by replacing these things).  As a better example I will point out that various wireless filters act at the tens or hundreds of megahertz range.  For these things to work properly, they need to charge and discharge (admittedly tiny amounts) millions of times a second, for years at a time.  For all practical purposes, they have infinite amounts of charge cycles.

Note that this might not be true of "ultra-capacitors" as they tend to blend capacitor and battery and might just involve chemical reactions.  Still, I'd expect to use ultra-caps anywhere I needed lots of charging and discharging (like a hybrid car, or perhaps an electric car that wants to preserve the battery).

[sevenperforce]

It is a battery, not a capacitor. That was my first question as well.

[Bill Phil]

27 minutes ago, wumpus said:

Is it a battery or a capacitor?  A battery stores electricity chemically, then reverses the chemical process to release the energy.  A capacitor stores the charge on plates, then returns the electrons as the voltage changes.  Note that a similar device would be an inductor, which stores current (well, flux.  But in practice it stores current).

Capacitors have essentially infinite lifespans (assuming you don't go anywhere near the voltage rating on the side.  Plenty of computer motherboards have been repaired by replacing these things).  As a better example I will point out that various wireless filters act at the tens or hundreds of megahertz range.  For these things to work properly, they need to charge and discharge (admittedly tiny amounts) millions of times a second, for years at a time.  For all practical purposes, they have infinite amounts of charge cycles.

Note that this might not be true of "ultra-capacitors" as they tend to blend capacitor and battery and might just involve chemical reactions.  Still, I'd expect to use ultra-caps anywhere I needed lots of charging and discharging (like a hybrid car, or perhaps an electric car that wants to preserve the battery).

A battery is a collection of artillery guns... Voltaic piles are called batteries because they have multiple units, a collection of units. A collection of capacitor units can equally be called a battery.

[wumpus]

2 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

A battery is a collection of artillery guns... Voltaic piles are called batteries because they have multiple units, a collection of units. A collection of capacitor units can equally be called a battery.

Very funny.  Most "batteries" I've used over my life have been the 1.5V type (the AAA-D cell type).   Is the correct terminology "voltaic pile"?  Then there's always the issue of stringing capacitors in series: while you *should* get higher voltages (and thus more power, but it isn't guaranteed and can always explode on you) you will reduce the capacitance by a factor equal to the number of capacitors added (capacitance adds in series like resistance adds in parallel).  I somehow don't think this type of "addition" really applies to anything you would collectively call a "battery".

[StrandedonEarth]

10 minutes ago, wumpus said:

.   Is the correct terminology "voltaic pile"?

I think they tend to use the term "dry cell" for the typical AAA-D (and other oddball sizes, like N) "batteries". Then you stick a bunch of dry cells in your battery pack.  A typical car battery is 6 lead-acid wet cells strung together.  Note that a 9V battery has 6 dry cells inside it. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by StrandedonEarth

[AeroGav]

 

TL;DR

The short version is that existing lithium ion batteries can last practically forever if you undercharge them.

Charge and Discharge cycles are irrelevant - though since life is normally quoted in terms of "charge discharge cycles" manufacturers do their testing by blitzing the cell with a really fast charge and discharge rate that runs it down (and charges it back up ) in just 20 minutes.   This enables them to  fit as many cycles in as possible before the battery degrades.

What actually causes degradation is unwanted chemical reactions that break down the electrolyte and turn it into solid gunk that deposits on the surface of the anode/cathode. Eventually this plugs the pores and lithium ions can't pass through (fast enough to meet the current needs of your device).   There are three things influence this reaction rate

1. state of charge.  the reactions pick up exponentially after 70% 

2. temperature - lower the better.   hot and fully charged is a particularly bad combo

Spoiler

The Tesla Roadster EV used commodity laptop cells, but standard charge was only to 80%.  Furthermore, when the car was parked, it would run its own air con system to keep the battery pack temperature below 20deg C if the battery was over 50% charged.    If the battery was below 50%, it couldn't spare the power to run the air con loop, but it didn't matter because even in arizona, the degradation reactions slow to a crawl at low cell voltage.

3. additives put in the electrolyte to slow this process

In the above video he talks about some early lithium ion batteries that had been left at 20% state of charge since the 1990s.  They hooked them up and ran a capacity test - they performed like new.

So are manufacturers going to give you a slightly larger battery and charge it to only 70%,  or take a 30% on the claimed battery life for your next smartphone so it'll last a decade or more? Or are they going to charge it to 100% ,  and make a huge profit on the replacement battery market.

 

Gee let me guess...

Edited April 22, 2016 by AeroGav

[Stargate525]

Potentially useful for power-grid buffering, if you can make them big enough. Or long-term spacecraft.

No point making a battery that will last 50 years into a phone; the other parts will still break in 10, and be obsolete in 2.

[WinkAllKerb'']

5 hours ago, cantab said:

Consumer won't care obsolescence.

#yawn ...

geee .... let them guess ...

Edited April 23, 2016 by WinkAllKerb''

[Nuke]

were long overdue for a new battery technology. lithium ion has really been showing its limitations as of late. ive been wanting to get some lifepo4s for awhile, some of the advantages of lithium ion but without all the explodeyness. but the energy density would feel like taking a small step back.