Hovercraft possible?

[Tr1gg3r]

Hi,

has anyone done or is it even possible yet to make a proper working Hovercraft? Searched the forums but nothing close is showing up.

itll no doubt require Mods to do 'properly' or do the stock physics enable this type of manipulation and use?

would be interested in ppl's ideas, views, list o mods etc.

on side note- been thinking about springs, hydraulics, turbines etc, possible with new unity engine maybe?

food for thought

Edited April 28, 2016 by Tr1gg3r
Note - i post ere, expecting photos of examples :) feel free to move

[Majorjim!]

To get one working like a real one is not possible. Even a mod one would not be simulating the physics involved. It would require a far more accurate model of airflow dynamics. There is nothing to stop you trying to make a fake one though! People make 'fakes' of real things like engines all the time.

[Tr1gg3r]

Hmm, thought as much, shame. 

Another thought, ive seen mention of weather hypothetically being discussed for possible future development etc blah blah, which i would presume would have to include 'like u say - more accurate airflow dynamic' with the intro of wind, air pressure, clouds, rain etc Obviously a massive undertaking and probs wouldnt be seen til KSP 3.0   but im interested in the realms of possibilities i spose.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Tr1gg3r
Topic change :) how quick my post changed into a development discussion. Lol

[mrmcp1]

I found that by using upturned wheels it is possible to make something that handles like a hovercraft. If you put enough of the wheels together you could make them look like the skirt of a hovercraft. 

 

[Tr1gg3r]

 kool, love it.! Im gona work on a transforming car-boat thingamybob tonight.

best boat parts mod? Not made any floaty stuff yet

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

On the weather thing, I doubt that anything as advanced as what you're describing will be added. Most likely what would be added is visual-only clouds and maybe wind similar to that frrom some mods (though I kind of doubt the wind, newB players might probably not like crosswind landings, and they tend to be a focus). But if they do implement that it would be awesome!

On topic: you might be able to make something that looks like a hovercraft using the repulsor things from Kerbal Foundries

Edited April 28, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139
Found it

[Tr1gg3r]

Kerbal foundries, kool ill give them a looksee. Cheers epicspacetroll139

yer, thought i was being a bit dreamy with my hopes for pushing the physics of this game, at this stage anyhow.

 

[selfish_meme]

There was a mod called Kerbal Wind, but it's probably dead by now it was a few versions ago.

[Imperium_Titan_Roma]

7 hours ago, Tr1gg3r said:

Kerbal foundries, kool ill give them a looksee. Cheers epicspacetroll139

yer, thought i was being a bit dreamy with my hopes for pushing the physics of this game, at this stage anyhow.

 

Its a good mod, it provides good hover engines, though control is rather strange since speed can build up rapidly without any easy way to slow down, atleast in my own personal experience, perfect for open fields, but terrible for closed in environments. 

[mrmcp1]

I think this looks a bit more like a hovercraft. (it even works in the water)

[Azimech]

I can try to write an engine that has 100% thrust at sea level but rapidly drops off with a tiny increase in altitude. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is constant on Kerbin so in theory this should work, if I can get the curves right. This means it would only work at sea though. Let me know if you're interested.

[Rath]

I am

[Pds314]

On 4/28/2016 at 8:35 AM, Majorjim said:

To get one working like a real one is not possible. Even a mod one would not be simulating the physics involved. It would require a far more accurate model of airflow dynamics. There is nothing to stop you trying to make a fake one though! People make 'fakes' of real things like engines all the time.

I think it might be possible for FAR to compensate for that effect and the WIG effect if @ferram4 decided to make that a priority.

Alternatively, someone could make a mod with hover-skirt parts and the appropriate sort of low-ratio compressor fans. Basically, the most important factors in a hovercraft are the hover height (determines how quickly the pressure equalizes), the overpressure in the air cushion (determines pressure equalization rate and lift), the perimeter (determines pressure equalization rate), and the lifting area (determines lift). If one so desired, they could also simulate the actual thrust from the compressor, though I assume in any reasonable hovercraft design, this is very low, and mostly comes into play with the WIG effect. (F.E. Helicoper disc area ends up making an air cushion, softening helicopter landings and meaning they don't need as much thrust for takeoff. VTOL jet wings make air cushion, allowing VTOL liftoff without TWR>1.0).

Finally, the air cushion volume affects the "inertia" of the cushion. A large cushion takes longer to pressurize and depressurize. At low hover heights, this can be a problem, as the cushion might take awhile to compensate, resulting in excessive dragging of the hoverskirt on the ground.

I don't see why a mod would be technically impossible though, at least one which simulates all the necessary effects. In fact, if shape-based effects were included, it might even work reflexively with existing VTOLs, giving them "bonus lift" near the ground. I have a small quadcopter IRL and I can attest to dramatic reductions in power consumption within a few inches of the ground. The throttle for full takeoff is about ~55%, whilst the throttle for "not technically touching the ground" is like ~40%.

On 4/30/2016 at 5:20 AM, Azimech said:

I can try to write an engine that has 100% thrust at sea level but rapidly drops off with a tiny increase in altitude. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is constant on Kerbin so in theory this should work, if I can get the curves right. This means it would only work at sea though. Let me know if you're interested.

Would it be possible to devise an engine which would work based on radar altitude? I realize not with just ordinary configs, but that might be an interesting project for code modders. One thing with real hovercraft, however, is that there is a distinct lag. While hypothetically, a hovercraft at ground level, i.e. skirt altitude of ZERO should generate nigh-infinite lift (well, until the compressor can no longer compress or something pops), it has to wait for the air cushion to fill. So for a large air cushion like that under a Zubr or something, the time it takes for the air cushion to fill is quite noticeable. For a small-cushion'd hovercraft such as an air-hockey puck, the air cushion can reach quite high pressures almost instantly, and so it would behave much like an engine that has an extreme altitude response curve.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Pds314

[Tr1gg3r]

On 30 April 2016 at 1:20 PM, Azimech said:

I can try to write an engine that has 100% thrust at sea level but rapidly drops off with a tiny increase in altitude. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is constant on Kerbin so in theory this should work, if I can get the curves right. This means it would only work at sea though. Let me know if you're interested.

That sounds kool mate, certainly interested, im waiting for few mods atm before i can start designing proper Hcrafts, still looking into some sort of propellar config aswell .

looks like theres few peeps that could be interested in seeing if this is poss, nice one

4 hours ago, Pds314 said:

I think it might be possible for FAR to compensate for that effect and the WIG effect if @ferram4 decided to make that a priority.

Alternatively, someone could make a mod with hover-skirt parts and the appropriate sort of low-ratio compressor fans. Basically, the most important factors in a hovercraft are the hover height (determines how quickly the pressure equalizes), the overpressure in the air cushion (determines pressure equalization rate and lift), the perimeter (determines pressure equalization rate), and the lifting area (determines lift). If one so desired, they could also simulate the actual thrust from the compressor, though I assume in any reasonable hovercraft design, this is very low, and mostly comes into play with the WIG effect. (F.E. Helicoper disc area ends up making an air cushion, softening helicopter landings and meaning they don't need as much thrust for takeoff. VTOL jet wings make air cushion, allowing VTOL liftoff without TWR>1.0).

Finally, the air cushion volume affects the "inertia" of the cushion. A large cushion takes longer to pressurize and depressurize. At low hover heights, this can be a problem, as the cushion might take awhile to compensate, resulting in excessive dragging of the hoverskirt on the ground.

I don't see why a mod would be technically impossible though, at least one which simulates all the necessary effects. In fact, if shape-based effects were included, it might even work reflexively with existing VTOLs, giving them "bonus lift" near the ground. I have a small quadcopter IRL and I can attest to dramatic reductions in power consumption within a few inches of the ground. The throttle for full takeoff is about ~55%, whilst the throttle for "not technically touching the ground" is like ~40%.

Would it be possible to devise an engine which would work based on radar altitude? I realize not with just ordinary configs, but that might be an interesting project for code modders. One thing with real hovercraft, however, is that there is a distinct lag. While hypothetically, a hovercraft at ground level, i.e. skirt altitude of ZERO should generate nigh-infinite lift (well, until the compressor can no longer compress or something pops), it has to wait for the air cushion to fill. So for a large air cushion like that under a Zubr or something, the time it takes for the air cushion to fill is quite noticeable. For a small-cushion'd hovercraft such as an air-hockey puck, the air cushion can reach quite high pressures almost instantly, and so it would behave much like an engine that has an extreme altitude response curve.

Yep, i thought bout some of this, i fly RC heli's aswell so understand a bit and looking into what some of these modders are creating, alot of its awesome! Theres people taking things in all sorts of creative directions, with the limit i suppose being, can Unity5 do it? Lets get passed wheels first. Lol bless em

certainly worth getting the discussion going tho, to at least see if its feasible and if peeps wanna collaborate or summin. (After the bugs sprays settled)

[Pds314]

5 hours ago, Tr1gg3r said:

That sounds kool mate, certainly interested, im waiting for few mods atm before i can start designing proper Hcrafts, still looking into some sort of propellar config aswell .

looks like theres few peeps that could be interested in seeing if this is poss, nice one

Yep, i thought bout some of this, i fly RC heli's aswell so understand a bit and looking into what some of these modders are creating, alot of its awesome! Theres people taking things in all sorts of creative directions, with the limit i suppose being, can Unity5 do it? Lets get passed wheels first. Lol bless em

certainly worth getting the discussion going tho, to at least see if its feasible and if peeps wanna collaborate or summin. (After the bugs sprays settled)

I've used Unity before and I'm learning C++. Nonetheless, I've no clue how to mod KSP beyond just simple parts mods. Maybe I'll do some research and see if I can't build a simple physically realistic hovercraft part. Ideally, it would be possible for it to recognize if there are multiple of them and instead of leaking pressure into the Ether, it would leak it into adjacent hoverpads so that they can be modular without consuming way more power than they should.

 

EDIT: hmm I could also just make hoverskirts in fairly convenient shapes, then accomplish any scaling effects via tweakscale configs. I.e. circular, various elliptical shapes, circle-capped lengths, and squares and rectangles. Maybe then add varied heights of hover skirt and possibly multiple types, though those could be part variants.

Hmm. Also, there's a variety of possible compressors. Ideally, these "engines" would be a separate part. In fact, ideally, they'd also run off an actual engine, like a gas turbine or piston engine, which could also be used to power a thrust fan with vectored thrust.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Pds314

[Tr1gg3r]

9 hours ago, Pds314 said:

I've used Unity before and I'm learning C++. Nonetheless, I've no clue how to mod KSP beyond just simple parts mods. Maybe I'll do some research and see if I can't build a simple physically realistic hovercraft part. Ideally, it would be possible for it to recognize if there are multiple of them and instead of leaking pressure into the Ether, it would leak it into adjacent hoverpads so that they can be modular without consuming way more power than they should.

 

EDIT: hmm I could also just make hoverskirts in fairly convenient shapes, then accomplish any scaling effects via tweakscale configs. I.e. circular, various elliptical shapes, circle-capped lengths, and squares and rectangles. Maybe then add varied heights of hover skirt and possibly multiple types, though those could be part variants.

Hmm. Also, there's a variety of possible compressors. Ideally, these "engines" would be a separate part. In fact, ideally, they'd also run off an actual engine, like a gas turbine or piston engine, which could also be used to power a thrust fan with vectored thrust.

I was gona take a rest from Ksp for bit, til they sort it. Lol but now uve got me excited thinking bout all this now. Haha 

im no modder, but ive got everything needed to try, prog's, tools etc been looking into the workflow etc but ive only got laptop, which is obviously gona struggle rendering anything etc so im not much use to be fair, but ill help where i can.

just had thought bout jetski's, pump water in and jet out for propulsion  gona stop now. Lol

On 29 April 2016 at 6:30 PM, mrmcp1 said:

I think this looks a bit more like a hovercraft. (it even works in the water)

Haha what a beast.! What version ksp didu make that? Before wheels went mad? 

Very kerbalesque

[mrmcp1]

1 hour ago, Tr1gg3r said:

Haha what a beast.! What version ksp didu make that? Before wheels went mad? 

Very kerbalesque

Thanks. It works in the most recent version 1.1.2. Weirdly it only works with the 1.1 updates. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by mrmcp1

[Redshift OTF]

Nice idea for the wheels. You could surround them with empty ore tanks so they look like the rubber skirt a real hovercraft has. Maybe make a turboshaft fan at the back for forward thrust. I would make one myself if I wasn't doing anything else.