So, Surface Bases

[DChurchill]

So, I started playing again, having not played since .22. Fired up career mode and wow, many changes. Contracts, mostly, there are lots of new parts and things, but the tech tree was introduced before I stopped playing, so no giant surprises there. In any event, I have some contracts to build surface bases. I'm ashamed to say, that in all my 500+ hours of KSP from .15 to .22, I never built a single surface base. Scores of orbital bases, but never on the surface. Mostly, because it seemed painful, and there was other fun stuff to do.

I built a lame little Minmus base, which was nothing more than a Hitchhiker can with a cupola on top and four landing legs. It qualified, but I want to do something more involved.

I guess what I'm looking for from the surface base enthusiasts is a quick word on how it's done. How do you get the parts all lined up? Wheels? KAS?

Help a returning player out!

Edited May 3, 2016 by DChurchill

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

What? It's just a big lander without a enough fuel to leave (or maybe *with!*)

The ability to drive up and dock other parts is an EXPANDABLE base  

[suicidejunkie]

I usually just hook up with KAS hoses.  They're great for short term use in transferring resources, although long term with save/load cycles, the physics of ground interaction tends to get a bit wibbly-wobbly and occasionally launch things into the sky.

 

One thing I'd like to try is running a girder out to the side, and then putting a docking port on the top of it.  Rovers could then drive over top, and lower their landing gear to hard dock to the base without needing precision engineering.

[Mr Shifty]

RoverDude's USI suite has a set of logistical transfers that allow you to move things around while not connected, just by using proximity.

[DChurchill]

24 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

What? It's just a big lander without a enough fuel to leave (or maybe *with!*)

The ability to drive up and dock other parts is an EXPANDABLE base  

Yeah, expandable.

I don't want to get crazy, but every orbital station I've ever built has been modular and expandable.

 

7 minutes ago, Mr Shifty said:

RoverDude's USI suite has a set of logistical transfers that allow you to move things around while not connected, just by using proximity.

That looks good. I was looking at this, too:  http://mods.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/232217-kerbal-planetary-base-systems

I'm guessing getting it all to line up like the picture, and not having it's component parts get orbited by the physics engine on reload is not really realistic.

I see lots of screenshots of big bases though.

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by DChurchill

[Norcalplanner]

Pathfinder also has some really good parts, including extendable tube to link modules together.

[G'th]

This mod is frankly the best if you want to get into surface bases without it getting too complicated or away from a stock feel. USI and Pathfinder are good upgrades to that that diverge away from stock a large bit more.

 

The other thing to consider with surface bases is the purpose of one. Design a base with a purpose and it will be much more fun to do. For example, on the Mun theres several locations where you have a ton of biomes all in short distance of one another.  Building a base in that location (especially early on if you're in career) will allow you to have a fixed point to hit all those biomes with science from.

Edited May 3, 2016 by G'th

[CrashTestDanny]

I would recommend checking the work of @Temstar  and then follow that up with reviewing and maybe downloading @Rune's base in several boxes.

I have deployed several of Rune's bases (but have not done so in 1.1 yet) and they are a great starting point.

Danny

Edited May 3, 2016 by CrashTestDanny

[sardia]

18 minutes ago, G'th said:

This mod is frankly the best if you want to get into surface bases without it getting too complicated or away from a stock feel. USI and Pathfinder are good upgrades to that that diverge away from stock a large bit more.

 

The other thing to consider with surface bases is the purpose of one. Design a base with a purpose and it will be much more fun to do. For example, on the Mun theres several locations where you have a ton of biomes all in short distance of one another.  Building a base in that location (especially early on if you're in career) will allow you to have a fixed point to hit all those biomes with science from.

Is there a list of locations for each body? I would love to complete a bunch of biomes in one sitting. 

[G'th]

Theres maps if you use google. Just look for ones that are based on colors (Ie, each biome a different color), and look for the rainbow.

 

But, you could also get ScanSAT and find out for yourself 

[DChurchill]

17 minutes ago, G'th said:

But, you could also get ScanSAT and find out for yourself 

I was so glad to see ScanSAT was up to date when I started playing again. I love that mod.

[something]

Well in my career I did finance a lot of trips to Minmus and a few to the Mun by "building" surface bases. Usually those contracts require you to send space for 4-6 Kerbals and a cupola. Thing is, attach a tank beneath and an engine and you have a nice lander which is totally capable of returning to Kerbin. As long as you do not take off from Minmus before the contract is completed (usually like 10s) it is totally legit to fly the entire base back home...

[Rune]

2 hours ago, suicidejunkie said:

One thing I'd like to try is running a girder out to the side, and then putting a docking port on the top of it.  Rovers could then drive over top, and lower their landing gear to hard dock to the base without needing precision engineering.

Actually the method I stole from Temstar works exactly the other way around: you put a docking port below the modules, and then you can drive a rover under it to dock and move it around.

Docking multiple modules then becomes a matter of standardizing leg height relative the the docking port, and locking/unlocking suspensions and such to take care of small inaccuracies.

 

Rune. The rest is up to the imagination, and patience.

[DChurchill]

11 minutes ago, Rune said:

Actually the method I stole from Temstar works exactly the other way around: you put a docking port below the modules, and then you can drive a rover under it to dock and move it around.

Docking multiple modules then becomes a matter of standardizing leg height relative the the docking port, and locking/unlocking suspensions and such to take care of small inaccuracies.

 

Rune. The rest is up to the imagination, and patience.

That's actually a brilliant idea.

[Violent Jeb]

In principal it works but in practice the suspension changes dramatically in different gravity. Something that lines up perfectly on kerbin won't line up the same on the mun unless the two masses are equal. Having boosters or extra legs on your "transport rover" helps so that you can get aligned, but it's not fool proof. I've been out by half a decoupler more than once, so ymmv. Ultimately, i imagine using hyperedit to "test" the base before launching is the safest bet, but there is no universal solution.

 

[DChurchill]

3 minutes ago, Violent Jeb said:

In principal it works but in practice the suspension changes dramatically in different gravity. Something that lines up perfectly on kerbin won't line up the same on the mun unless the two masses are equal. Having boosters or extra legs on your "transport rover" helps so that you can get aligned, but it's not fool proof. I've been out by half a decoupler more than once, so ymmv. Ultimately, i imagine using hyperedit to "test" the base before launching is the safest bet, but there is no universal solution.

 

This is why I never tried it before. LOL

I might just go the KAS and Infernal Robotics and build a crane.

[Violent Jeb]

KAS is the most "realistic" way to make this happen. I can't imagine trying to dock two massive objects on a non-breathable body IRL, without anything more than decouplers. At the very least, there should be connectable tubes or some other structure for kerbals to move from one module to the next, which would be attached via EVA. 

Because of the way that stock treats modular basebuilding (as a nigh impossible, fruitless task), I usually don't bother. I send down single all-in-one units, which may or may not return afterwards. I am also perpetually sad.

[Rune]

1 hour ago, Violent Jeb said:

In principal it works but in practice the suspension changes dramatically in different gravity. Something that lines up perfectly on kerbin won't line up the same on the mun unless the two masses are equal. Having boosters or extra legs on your "transport rover" helps so that you can get aligned, but it's not fool proof. I've been out by half a decoupler more than once, so ymmv. Ultimately, i imagine using hyperedit to "test" the base before launching is the safest bet, but there is no universal solution.

 

I beg to differ. Form Minmus to Kerbin gravity, my modules dock to each other no matter the order you put them in. The trick are the corridor sections between them, which have a bit of play to take care of terrain irregularities, and locking the suspension on all legs. And if after that a port won't connect on the first try, working the legs on/off will usually do the trick. Building modules of roughly the same size also helps, of course. As an example of what I'm talking about:

 

Rune. Real-time adjustable suspension would be the lazy man's modded solution... if the mod existed. Quick, get coding guys!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Rune

[Brofessional]

I've done cranes before, but they've always ended up being more trouble than they're worth. 

If you're going to use Infernal Robotics the way to go is probably to just build all your base segments with wheels on adjustable rails.  That way each segment can drive itself up for docking and adjust the wheel height for uneven terrain.

[max_creative]

Just send a lander, then on landing "accidentally" destroy the engine, and decide to rename it as a base so you don't have to go rescue those poor Kerbals.

[Skystorm]

Speaking of resource transfers, you can also use the EVA Resource Transfer mod without needing to dock the vessels.

Kind of works like a KAS pipe but more limited and without the docking aspect.

[Violent Jeb]

2 hours ago, Violent Jeb said:

Something that lines up perfectly on kerbin won't line up the same on the mun unless the two masses are equal.

1 hour ago, Rune said:

I beg to differ..The trick are the corridor sections between them, which have a bit of play to take care of terrain irregularities, and locking the suspension on all legs. And if after that a port won't connect on the first try, working the legs on/off will usually do the trick. Building modules of roughly the same size also helps, of course.

So just like i said, it works but there are a bunch of caveats and it's a pain in general.

What do you beg to differ about exactly..?

Sure, you can make it work, you need to plan for every different thing, etc etc.

[LameLefty]

Last time I played around with surface bases, I used RoverDude's MKS/OKS modules from his Kolonization System ... Worked great! It's been since about 0.90 or thereabouts, I guess, but the last time I tried them you didn't need to use any life support/consumables unless you wanted to.

 

 

[Majorjim!]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

I beg to differ. Form Minmus to Kerbin gravity, my modules dock to each other no matter the order you put them in. The trick are the corridor sections between them, which have a bit of play to take care of terrain irregularities, and locking the suspension on all legs. And if after that a port won't connect on the first try, working the legs on/off will usually do the trick. Building modules of roughly the same size also helps, of course. As an example of what I'm talking about:

 

 

Rune. Real-time adjustable suspension would be the lazy man's modded solution... if the mod existed. Quick, get coding guys!

I would check this in 1.1.2 as we can no longer lock suspension.

[Temstar]

They took away lock suspension AGAIN? Man maybe Squad just hate bases.