[1.1.3] TAC - Life Support v0.12.2 - Release 03 JULY 2016

[Crazy-Engineer]

26 minutes ago, not-working-at-work said:

My kerbal keeps dying on her way back from the Mun.

The reason given is "air toxicity", but I checked the oxygen and co2 levels, and they're totally normal.  I even installed the Jettison mod and dumped all the co2, but she still dies!

 

It always happens a little past the 2-day mark of the mission.  I have run out of battery power, if that makes a difference, but I did try it once with the debug menu set to infinite electricity.

 

[edit] ran a test, she survives if she's on EVA, but dies almost as soon as she gets back in the capsule, no matter what the O2/CO2 levels are.

this used to happen back in 1.0.5 even, TACLS needs electricity AFAIK

Also this is one of my fav mods and this shud be stock, glad to know its being updated

[not-working-at-work]

Just now, danfarnsy said:

I remember the first time I let my kerbal go two hours without electric charge. Her capsule's air filtration system stopped working, could no longer filter out her CO2 from the cabin, so she died a glorious kerbal death trapped outside the orbit of the Mun. She was a bad-S scientist too. I was sad for at least a minute or two.

Good job!

Is there any way to tell how toxic the air in the capsule is?  I thought that if I kept an eye on the O2 and CO2 levels, i'd be fine.  I don't have an air scrubber, but there's more than enough oxygen for the trip that I don't need to recycle what I have.

 

Some kind of meter or gauge would be nice, because there's no way to tell.

 

I just ran an experiment, and yes, she dies exactly two hours after the power went out.

[danfarnsy]

17 minutes ago, not-working-at-work said:

Is there any way to tell how toxic the air in the capsule is?

Toxicity isn't measured directly: it's a simple timer. If your craft goes two hours without electric charge, you have to have memorial services for your brave kerbalnauts. Two hours without electricity, two hours without oxygen, 36 hours without water, 360 hours without food... those are your limits. It could be made more complicated than that, but it's not on my to-do list. These are default amounts and can all be changed in the configuration menu at the space center.

[danfarnsy]

57 minutes ago, Crazy-Engineer said:

Also this is one of my fav mods and this shud be stock, glad to know its being updated

This is strong praise for any mod. In addition to the original author, @TaranisElsu, a number of recent contributors have made it possible. The credit and praise belong to them.

That said, I like that this and so many other mods are not stock. Modders give us an incredible array of choices. In the life support category alone, there are several different options, with different designs and underlying mechanics, which is awesome. It means that if you don't want life support, you don't have to have it. If you do want it but you don't like TACLS, you still have choices. This flexibility is what gives KSP so much staying power. I've been playing since 0.17, and not only has the base game evolved in fantastic and occasionally frustrating ways (looking at you, Euler-method instabilities for heat transfer to small parts, 1.0.4), but my own game has evolved into multiple games side by side. I have a heavily modded stock system install, an RO/RSS install, and various rotating setups trying new things. I love starting new games and exploring. Different mods make it something new to explore every time.

[not-working-at-work]

1 hour ago, danfarnsy said:

Toxicity isn't measured directly: it's a simple timer. If your craft goes two hours without electric charge, you have to have memorial services for your brave kerbalnauts. Two hours without electricity, two hours without oxygen, 36 hours without water, 360 hours without food... those are your limits. It could be made more complicated than that, but it's not on my to-do list. These are default amounts and can all be changed in the configuration menu at the space center.

Well, I found a glitch that allowed me to get Valentina home safely.

The ship was already in sub-orbital flight, and I had half an hour left in the capsule (for a five hour trip).  I sent her on EVA, time jumped an hour and a half, and put her back in the ship.  Then, EVA again.  Despite having no power from which to recharge the scrubbers in the EVA suit, the two-hour timer was reset.  Do that until she's just about to hit atmosphere, and I used the remaining half hour of air in the shuttle to land.

 

I didn't know about the electricity rule, I thought I was fine just bringing enough oxygen.  Live and learn!

Thanks for the awesome mod, by the way!

There's a lot of things in there that should be stock.

[permanentlytemporary]

PSA for dummies like me who aren't able to enter any buildings/use the GUI when you first load a save: re-read the known issues in the OP and make sure you've got Community Resource Pack installed.

[chrisl]

Does anyone know how to setup a TacGenericConverter so that it'll pull in atmosphere from Duna/Mars?  I tried using the existing "Air Filter" as a model but there is no "IntakeAir" on Duna/Mars.  Unfortunately I'm not sure how to reference a non-oxygen atmosphere though I'm guessing there is a way.

[charliepryor]

Request: Integration with Filter Extensions, so that TAC LS parts appear in the "Life Support" tab instead of Misc.

[MscG]

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 9:51 PM, danfarnsy said:

Oh bother. I didn't have to tell it to update from 0.11.3 to 0.12.0. It just did its indexing thing and figured it out. This time, I did something to confuse it.

Where's a real modder when you need him?

Edit: It should still work just fine as long as you install CRP.

You just missed the "v" in front of the version number when you created the 0.12.1.

CRP fixed the NRE when clicking on the VAB, but it has no connection with the versioning problem. 

[Calvin_Maclure]

@danfarnsy, this may or may not have been addressed by you already, I did try to find if it had, so my apologies if Im making you repeat yourself. 

First and foremost, thanks for your contribution to this mod! I dont know if you know or not but, somebody (I forget who, atm) did create a "hacked" version of TAC LS that was compatible for 1.1.X. I have been using it, and from what I can see, all is well and working correctly with it. Im baiscally trying to figure out what I should do at this point, if I should continue to use the hacked one or the one you've worked on. I dont know what the scope of your work has been on this mod since you've picked it up. Dont know if there's any easy way you can advise?

Cheers,

CM

[danfarnsy]

2 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

@danfarnsy, this may or may not have been addressed by you already, I did try to find if it had, so my apologies if Im making you repeat yourself. 

First and foremost, thanks for your contribution to this mod! I dont know if you know or not but, somebody (I forget who, atm) did create a "hacked" version of TAC LS that was compatible for 1.1.X. I have been using it, and from what I can see, all is well and working correctly with it. Im baiscally trying to figure out what I should do at this point, if I should continue to use the hacked one or the one you've worked on. I dont know what the scope of your work has been on this mod since you've picked it up. Dont know if there's any easy way you can advise?

Cheers,

CM

The "hacked" version from WaylandSmith is included in this release, which is largely why this release is working.  Feel free to upgrade.
 

4 hours ago, MscG said:

You just missed the "v" in front of the version number when you created the 0.12.1.

CRP fixed the NRE when clicking on the VAB, but it has no connection with the versioning problem. 

Derp! Thanks for the keen eyes. That part is now fixed. I need to go through this and the dev thread and start making a checklist of silly mistakes to avoid in the future.

[Calvin_Maclure]

19 minutes ago, danfarnsy said:

The "hacked" version from WaylandSmith is included in this release, which is largely why this release is working.  Feel free to upgrade.

Ah, that's cool! Mind if I ask what you've done to it since? I'm mostly just curious, not skeptical!

Cheers,

CM

[danfarnsy]

14 minutes ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Mind if I ask what you've done to it since?

Changelog from the OP (hidden in the spoiler):

Quote

v0.12.1
Fixed "Release/Release/GameData/..." in the .zip, so it's not so ugly. Mod name and version are reflected in the .zip file too. What a concept! If the mod is already working fine for you, this update is unnecessary.

v0.12.0
Added TMS retextures as standard - thanks TMS
Integrated DeepFreeze compatibility - thanks JPLRepo
Updated part files with search tags
Updated version and licensing files

v0.11.3 - KSP 1.1.2 update - Many thanks WaylandSmith and James3838 for update code.

 

[Galenmacil]

A request: Make it possible to have the mod icon present in the stock toolbar instead of only Blizzy toolbar. Thanks for maintaining it!

[N_Molson]

Quote

The ship was already in sub-orbital flight, and I had half an hour left in the capsule (for a five hour trip).  I sent her on EVA, time jumped an hour and a half, and put her back in the ship.  Then, EVA again.  Despite having no power from which to recharge the scrubbers in the EVA suit, the two-hour timer was reset.  Do that until she's just about to hit atmosphere, and I used the remaining half hour of air in the shuttle to land.

Notice that in real life they don't have to use electricity to recharge EVA suits CO2 scrubbers. Those are chemical devices (LiOH cartridges), that are replaced once used, which means they need to have a little stockpile aboard the ISS. So in your case, its more like you have an infinite supply of LiOH cartridges in your ship. Now the batteries of an EVA suit have to be recharged after each sortie (from heating/cooling to frontlights, communications and display to the fans that are necessary to cycle the air throughout the suit). Without EC, an EVA suit is a death trap passed a few minutes.

[Diddly Feelerino]

I dunno if it's TACS' latest release or Planetary Bases, but it seems that when you have more than one vessel travelling for lengthy periods the recycling systems don't appear to work as well....

I have 3 ships en route to Sarnus (OPM), with 2 mini greenhouses, a water recycler and o2 recyclers. The oxygen is running out around 3 years in everytime (that or food) - which makes no sense considering that in prior missions with only 1 ship (to the same specifications) I was able to travel for 6/7 years with only a minor dip in my oxygen or food....

[Calvin_Maclure]

2 hours ago, Diddly Feelerino said:

I dunno if it's TACS' latest release or Planetary Bases, but it seems that when you have more than one vessel travelling for lengthy periods the recycling systems don't appear to work as well....

I have 3 ships en route to Sarnus (OPM), with 2 mini greenhouses, a water recycler and o2 recyclers. The oxygen is running out around 3 years in everytime (that or food) - which makes no sense considering that in prior missions with only 1 ship (to the same specifications) I was able to travel for 6/7 years with only a minor dip in my oxygen or food....

Have the rates of consumption changed? Have a look at the values. They may be more aggressive then they were before.

CM

[Diddly Feelerino]

But I haven't upgraded from the last install before this problem occurred. It doesn't happen when you focus on one craft (but it affects the other two travelling alongside if you aren't focusing on them when you warp).

[Calvin_Maclure]

2 hours ago, Diddly Feelerino said:

But I haven't upgraded from the last install before this problem occurred. It doesn't happen when you focus on one craft (but it affects the other two travelling alongside if you aren't focusing on them when you warp).

Can you provide more details about the issue (i.e.: are you using the TAC LS components or TAC LS empowered components, e.g.: Universal Storage has its own components that are compatible/empowered by TAC LS)? What version of TAC LS are you using with which you noticed the issue? What version of KSP when you started noticing the issue? Have you tried to uninstall-reinstall TAC LS? and anything else you might deem helpful. 

CM

[Diddly Feelerino]

I installed the latest version of TAC LS (1.1.2/0.12.1 updated last week). I have the latest of Planetary Base mod also. The only resource used outside of TAC proper is "organics", which is utilised by PBM.

I will delete both, reinstall and see where that leads.

PS - I should reiterate that it affects craft travelling at high warp only if you don't focus on them. I know this is abnormal as I had a Joolean mission of 5-6 years and my resources were absolutely fine - maybe 30% loss in total. Now when I run the supplies are AT 30-40% by the 3rd year. Something is amiss......

[Calvin_Maclure]

So its almost like the fast time warp accelerates the consumption rates, if Im getting this correctly? And, this may be a silly question but, has the number of Kerbals aboard changed?

CM

[Diddly Feelerino]

It seems to do so aye. And no, the number has remained at 4 Kerbals everytime.

[danfarnsy]

@Diddly Feelerino I suspect PBS's internal greenhouse modules are the problem, since it uses its own module instead of the TACLS generic converter. Of course, since I don't know how PBS's module works, I'm just guessing.

[Diddly Feelerino]

Just tested it there again - this time on a single vessel which I kept on "view" for the entire trip. The bug didn't manifest that time (although as I said, it seems to affect ships travelling on warp if you DON'T focus on them).

[superstrijder15]

Hello,

I'm still on ksp 1.0.5, and wanted life support, so i got tacls 0.11.2. I also got PBS's 1.0.5 version. the weird thing is: my kerbals don't need anything( or so it seems). I think I installed the wrong bits(do you need to copy anything but GameData?), as the download is quite messy. I also use KJR,MechJeb and Kerbal Alarm Clock and Remotetech. those all seem to work properly. It would be nice if somebody could help me, cause I really want to kill my kerbals without explosions!

superstrijder