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[1.1.3] TAC - Life Support v0.12.2 - Release 03 JULY 2016

danfarnsy

By danfarnsy
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danfarnsy

danfarnsy

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11 hours ago, Maelin said:

Just spotted a minor issue with the OP, it has a link saying "DOWNLOAD v0.12.2" which directs to https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/releases/tag/0.12.2, while danfarnsy's post on page 6 has a link saying "Download here" which directs to https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/releases.

The problem is, the OP link does not show the actual compiled mod file 'TacLifeSupport-0.12.2.zip', it just shows the two source zip files. So might need to alter the OP link so people coming into the thread can find the mod. :)

Thanks for continuing this mod, danfarnsy! :)

Artifact of fixing some other issue. Typos are the werst.

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Hadleyz

Hadleyz

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Heya! I have this issue, my kerbals doesnt consume oxigen. (while they consume food and water just fine.,) Any suggestions? Maybe an other mod causes this , or anyone else with this problem?

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damerell

damerell

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50 minutes ago, Hadleyz said:

Heya! I have this issue, my kerbals doesnt consume oxigen. (while they consume food and water just fine.,) Any suggestions? Maybe an other mod causes this , or anyone else with this problem?

Have you taken off? If you are on Kerbin and the atmosphere pressure is 0.5 bar or above, life support needs no on-board oxygen or electricity. At 0.2 bar or above, you don't need on-board oxygen if you have electricity (presumably to compress the exterior air).

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Hadleyz

Hadleyz

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Posted (edited)

Oh. never tought of that. I just tested the TAC with the Deep freeze to see if the issue is still up or not. The testing results confirmed that the frozen kerbal consumes the life support, while in deep freeze, so that DF is useless for now. Just cosmetics. However I did not take off from the launch pad. Thank you for the answer Damerell!

Edited by Hadleyz
correction
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MscG

MscG

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On 5/7/2016 at 5:29 PM, Stone Blue said:

Have you checked with the CKAN people yet?... Since its very recent that CKAN is allowing mod devs to control their own meta, its probably good practice to address CKAN issues with the CKAN team, FIRST, especially to find out if it IS indeed the mod dev who is now submitting the meta, BEFORE posting directly to a mod release thread for support.

PS- a nicer tone may get you farther with support... :)
Also, not only do most mod devs not appreciate this type of tone, but MANY mod users also do not, because all it takes is one person to make a mod dev mad, once, and EVERYONE loses out on that mod...Plus, its just plain not nice... :) Please note the last line in my sig.. :P

Dear sir,

what kind of tone are you referring to? I already knew that the @danfarnsy was relying on automatic CKAN discovery since he had the same problem in the previous release. I read about the "developers vs. CKAN" drama story, so I was just asking if it was a developer choice not to publsh the metadata. Then I checked more deeply, spot the problem and signaled it. My only fault is that I posted BEFORE checking the CKAN-meta commits.

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danfarnsy

danfarnsy

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4 hours ago, MscG said:

My only fault is that I posted BEFORE checking the CKAN-meta commits.

If you're interested in discussing the issue (I wasn't, but this is bringing drama to the thread), the other fault was the clumsy way in which you brought the issue up. It sounded accusatory, the same way I say to my kids, "Is there a reason your toys are spread out all over your bedroom floor?" This is what @Stone Blue was referring to, regarding tone. I happened to read it the same way. Then again, it's writing, and it could have sounded totally different in your head when you wrote it. So, even if you intended it differently than we read it, can you at least see how we read it the way we did? You also correctly identified the issue which led to an easy fix. Thank you for that, again.

You were trying to be helpful. Stone Blue was trying to be helpful. Hey, I'm trying to be helpful too! If we stumble a bit in the process and make mistakes or don't communicate clearly, well, we're a community of nerds with underdeveloped social skills. We all benefit from being patient with each other. I'm glad when people are patient with me.

Also, for clarification: I take full responsibility for TACLS's CKAN listing, even though I'm not very proficient with it and have to get help occasionally (read: all the time). That means this is the right place to bring up CKAN distribution issues. As a user, that's confusing of course, because every mod author has his or her own position on CKAN. I find CKAN to be a bunch of voodoo myself, but it's voodoo I'd rather track.

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MscG

MscG

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14 hours ago, danfarnsy said:

If you're interested in discussing the issue (I wasn't, but this is bringing drama to the thread), the other fault was the clumsy way in which you brought the issue up. It sounded accusatory, the same way I say to my kids, "Is there a reason your toys are spread out all over your bedroom floor?" This is what @Stone Blue was referring to, regarding tone. I happened to read it the same way. Then again, it's writing, and it could have sounded totally different in your head when you wrote it. So, even if you intended it differently than we read it, can you at least see how we read it the way we did? You also correctly identified the issue which led to an easy fix. Thank you for that, again.

You were trying to be helpful. Stone Blue was trying to be helpful. Hey, I'm trying to be helpful too! If we stumble a bit in the process and make mistakes or don't communicate clearly, well, we're a community of nerds with underdeveloped social skills. We all benefit from being patient with each other. I'm glad when people are patient with me.

Also, for clarification: I take full responsibility for TACLS's CKAN listing, even though I'm not very proficient with it and have to get help occasionally (read: all the time). That means this is the right place to bring up CKAN distribution issues. As a user, that's confusing of course, because every mod author has his or her own position on CKAN. I find CKAN to be a bunch of voodoo myself, but it's voodoo I'd rather track.

Obviously I never meant to be accusatory, expecially toward you, who took over your shoulders the burden of maintaining the mod. The "Talking about moot points" in my previous post was just a playful reference to the drama the spread out between mod developers and CKAN ones and I just meant to use it to introduce a question: I just wanted to know if you decided to join the CKAN-diaspora.

Now, as a software developer who works everyday with dependency tracking systems, let me say that I support you in your decision to control the metadata for CKAN listing: I think it's the best and the most efficient way to avoid problems coming from random people/software trying to do the job in your place. It may take some time, it may be hard at the beginning, but the result will help you and the people using your mod.

Edited by MscG
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spacetackle

spacetackle

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On 5/13/2016 at 7:30 AM, danfarnsy said:

Leaving aside the funky release folder, I overlooked a couple of important issues that I will get fixed as soon as I'm able:

  1. The CKAN meta is missing  {"name" : "CommunityResourcePack" } , so it won't automatically install CRP. You can tell CKAN to install CRP for you, or you can use the manual installation.
  2. This mod does not yet support the stock toolbar, but it does support Blizzy's toolbar. This means that if you don't have Blizzy's toolbar, the control icon will be ugly and difficult to configure. TACLS will still work, so it isn't a "requirement," but I recommend it until I properly support the stock toolbar.
  3. And of course, the "release" folder. Thanks for the slack, folks. I never did any of this until two weeks ago. :)

Edit: CKAN metadata fix submitted. Hopefully it will go through soon.

I Love this mod, thanks for making it!

Looking forward to when it is integrated with stock toolbar :) TAC is the last mod I use that still uses blizzys....I allllmost have all the mods lined up and looking pretty in the same spot :) 

Keep up the great work :)

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Oromis

Oromis

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Hi everyone! How long can a kerbal survive without resources? I play RO/RSS and they don't seem to die at all...
Also, why is electricity always displayed as "infinite"?
And if I "deactivate" a battery to preserve its charge, why can't I unlock it later after I've finished electricity? (this one may not be TACLS-related)

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danfarnsy

danfarnsy

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8 hours ago, Oromis said:

Hi everyone! How long can a kerbal survive without resources? I play RO/RSS and they don't seem to die at all...
Also, why is electricity always displayed as "infinite"?
And if I "deactivate" a battery to preserve its charge, why can't I unlock it later after I've finished electricity? (this one may not be TACLS-related)

Sounds like you've got some funky mod interactions going on. Care to share your log?

 

18 hours ago, sumghai said:

If you're happy with this, I'll email you a higher resolution version, plus the flags and agency assets.

Kachiga! Thank you so much. Very nice icon, simple design that jives with the textures from TMS. I like the way the bolt alternatively suggests a road to the horizon or a resource gauge. Or maybe you had neither of those in mind when you made it, but that's what it evoked for me, which is good. :) I'll PM you an email address.

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Phineas Freak

Phineas Freak

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9 hours ago, Oromis said:

How long can a kerbal survive without resources?

As taken directly from the "LifeSupport.cfg" shipped with RO: 

Max Time Without Food = 2592000 s (30 days)
Max Time Without Water = 259200 s (3 days)
Max Time Without Oxygen = 180 s (3 minutes)
Max Time Without Electricity = 259200 s (3 days)

Some pretty generous max times i have to say...

9 hours ago, Oromis said:

why is electricity always displayed as "infinite"?

Probably because a) the way RO uses Electric Charge (1 EC = 1 kW) leading to very high stored EC values (not unusual for a pod to have more that 20000 units) and b) TACLS not able to handle these values (higher than a specified level == "infinite").

9 hours ago, Oromis said:

if I "deactivate" a battery to preserve its charge, why can't I unlock it later after I've finished electricity? (this one may not be TACLS-related)

True, this comes from KSP itself (and more specifically the versions from 1.1.0 and upwards): you deactivate a battery trying to "cheat" and preserve it for later. If you run out of ElectricCharge then you will have no way to activate the battery (since no means of controlling the action exists). This was actually a bug in the previous KSP versions...

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Oromis

Oromis

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@danfarnsy @Phineas Freak Thank you so much for your support!

 

14 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

True, this comes from KSP itself (and more specifically the versions from 1.1.0 and upwards): you deactivate a battery trying to "cheat" and preserve it for later. If you run out of ElectricCharge then you will have no way to activate the battery (since no means of controlling the action exists). This was actually a bug in the previous KSP versions...

Argh, no more emergency batteries then :( I also tried activating them during and EVA but no luck! This may be a "cheat" with an umanned probe, but I think a manned capsule would be realistic to have a manual switch to activate/deactivate a battery.

 

14 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Probably because a) the way RO uses Electric Charge (1 EC = 1 kW) leading to very high stored EC values (not unusual for a pod to have more that 20000 units) and b) TACLS not able to handle these values (higher than a specified level == "infinite").

Since TAC-LS is the major LS mod support by RO, is there any chance it will be updated to correctly calculate EC? It'd be useful to have an estimate in the VAB.

 

15 hours ago, danfarnsy said:

Sounds like you've got some funky mod interactions going on. Care to share your log?

 

14 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Some pretty generous max times i have to say...

My three kerbals remained in orbit without water nor EC for about 7 days so there definitely is something wrong. In what situation should I provide the output_log.txt (or is it the KSP.log?): while the ship is in orbit? Or after >3 days without water and EC?

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Phineas Freak

Phineas Freak

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Oromis said:

Since TAC-LS is the major LS mod support by RO, is there any chance it will be updated to correctly calculate EC?

Please do note that i assumed that these were reasons (i can be 100% wrong and it may actually be a bug in the code or something else completely) and i am not in position to say that it can/will be fixed.

1 hour ago, Oromis said:

My three kerbals remained in orbit without water nor EC for about 7 days so there definitely is something wrong.

In that case, yes, the logs (either the output_log or the KSP.log) can provide a means of checking if TACLS is operating correctly. @danfarnsy will have the last word though on what is required.

Edited by Phineas Freak
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Gryphon

Gryphon

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1 hour ago, subyng said:

Thanks!

So since Kerbals can survive for 30 days without food, essentially if your mission is less than 30 days you don't need to pack any food?

...Perhaps if you're a monster.

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danfarnsy

danfarnsy

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2 hours ago, subyng said:

Thanks!

So since Kerbals can survive for 30 days without food, essentially if your mission is less than 30 days you don't need to pack any food?

Yes, if you're trying to trim every last bit of weight down, you could do small hex cans without including food, or such. Keep in mind your pod has enough resources for three days, so you only need to bring extra oxygen and water for missions beyond that, basically allowing a Minmus landing and return. TACLS doesn't provide any mechanism for your kerbal to start acting delirious when he or she is starving, nor for them to get extra grumpy, so you could do it this way without penalty.

Maybe it's worth having some sort of reputation penalty in career mode for starving your kerbalnauts, even if you don't kill them. :) It probably won't be a feature.

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subyng

subyng

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I think that would definitely be a good addition! Otherwise the only reason not to starve your Kerbals is for RP purposes, I suppose. Credit, reputation, and/or XP loss would be a good incentive I think. 

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autumnalequinox

autumnalequinox

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On 7/10/2016 at 7:44 AM, Oromis said:

Hi everyone! How long can a kerbal survive without resources? I play RO/RSS and they don't seem to die at all...
Also, why is electricity always displayed as "infinite"?
And if I "deactivate" a battery to preserve its charge, why can't I unlock it later after I've finished electricity? (this one may not be TACLS-related)

I had the same infinite electricity and opened the config menu at Space Center and found consumption at 0.  I adjusted it until it worked out nicely with RO (about 10/5 gives 20 minutes in a 3-person pod).

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Mo3pp3l

Mo3pp3l

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Shown values of max time before energy runs out is not right handled by TACLS.

Any generated or consumed energy from a part never counts. TACLS has only on math for displaying this values.

  
private double CalculateElectricityConsumptionRate(int numCrew, int numParts)
{
return (globalSettings.ElectricityConsumptionRate * numCrew) + (globalSettings.BaseElectricityConsumptionRate * numParts);

}

 

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