The 5th fundy force

[PB666]

You guys n gals are going to love this one 

http://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-think-they-might-have-just-detected-a-fifth-force-of-nature?

EDIT:http://phys.org/news/2016-05-case-nature.html

So two teams now say they are observing a spike of something between electron and protons mass emitted when protons are bombarded into an isotope of litium. 

Of course to support the claim Eureka Alert pointed to a wiki page on it. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_force

Of course if you think that there is a consistent thought on the matter think again

Some think this is a:

dark photon or some form of dark matter, photons of course don't have rest mass so they are proposing some kind of massive dark photon, yeah I said it, don't shoot the messanger. 

Something about as strong as gravity, here again not sure what the evidence is. These are based on a variance of the gravitational constant by very small values when an object is surounded by increasing amounts of mass, problem is that the constant also varies with temperature and other varieties of change. The constant itself may only be conditionally constant. 

Something that explains dark energy and dark matter, and gravitational interactions at great distances. 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by PB666

[sevenperforce]

Gravity is not very strong.

Just saying.

[Scotius]

Did they find...the Force?

[kerbiloid]

6 minutes ago, Scotius said:

Did they find...the Force?

No. The Love.

2 hours ago, PB666 said:

dark photon

Photons of darkness, darkons. A lantern which emits darkness supressing light.

Edited May 26, 2016 by kerbiloid

[PB666]

4 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

No. The Love.

Photons of darkness, darkons. A lantern which emits darkness supressing light.

Dark the force, ready it was not.

[hypervelocity]

5 hours ago, PB666 said:

dark photon or some form of dark matter, photons of course don't have rest mass so they are proposing some kind of massive dark photon, yeah I said it, don't shoot the messanger. 

I giggled!

[Scotius]

So - that would be what? A footprint of the negative energy\mass we need for Alcubierre\Warp drive to actually work? Maybe a force that lets Quantum Thruster pump the virtual quantum plasma? Or maybe it's that elusive pixie dust something allowing the EmDrive to produce thrust out of seemingly nothing?

[kunok]

Basically this article from nature:

It's a big claim and can be very revolutionary, but I don't even imagine the consequences, this is far beyond my knowledge

http://www.nature.com/news/has-a-hungarian-physics-lab-found-a-fifth-force-of-nature-1.19957

Well physic guys what do you think?  @K^2 you are the physics particle guy here

I principally want to learn reading people discussing this. Always feel very instructive.

[Red Iron Crown]

Merged in a duplicate thread.

[sevenperforce]

Not a lot to say until more research is done. We weren't really looking for another particle in this area, so it's odd to find it, but at the same time the existence of a noticeable signal where we weren't looking is significant.

If real, this particle is a gauge boson, but a massive one like the Higgs rather than a massless one like the photon. Its energy level suggests a region of action on the order of the diameter of an atomic nucleus. This could provide an explanation for how dark matter interacts with itself.

[kunok]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Merged in a duplicate thread.

Sorry i didn't seen

[PB666]

https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160607-new-boson-claim-faces-scrutiny/

[PB666]

http://phys.org/news/2016-08-physicists-discovery-nature.html

 

[K^2]

If the carrier boson is 17MeV, this is going to be something very short-range. In fact, only massless bosons are going to correspond to long-range forces.

Of course, existence of a new Higgs-like boson could point to a yet undiscovered massless boson, such as dark photon, as a side effect, but it's a very drawn conjecture at this point, even if we take existence of that new 17MeV particle as a given.

[ProtoJeb21]

5 hours ago, PB666 said:

http://phys.org/news/2016-08-physicists-discovery-nature.html

 

*brain explodes*

I've done research on subatomic physics for at least 4 years, but I can't understand this X Boson stuff. Help me! 

[K^2]

8 hours ago, ProtoJeb21 said:

I've done research on subatomic physics for at least 4 years, but I can't understand this X Boson stuff. Help me! 

Do you understand Higgs Mechanism and why photon is the only massless boson resulting from the SU(2) x U(1) symmetry group?

[PB666]

I have read a few of these articles now, it does seem so be more hand-waving than actually based in experiments. A force that once (why not now) governed the interaction of electrons and neutrons. How does this particularly help the dark energy and gravity problem.

The way I see dark energy is this  a force of energy that only acts at great distances (in fact measurements conclude conclusively that it does not affect interactions as a close range at all-meaning whatever its contribution we cannot distinguish it from the standard variation already seen in the universal gravitational constant). Therefore dark energy will not directly have anything to do with electron neutron interactions. Neutrons in general move to slowly (and also scatter) and electrons are scattered to easily to interact at long distances.

Dark matter from what I understand is either a cryptic source of gravitation (the warping of space time) whose interactions are also observed over great distances. If the force is a boson, that acts over great distances like light, it cannot be confined to any unit of space, there is nothing over 100,000s of years to confine it to regions of space or any thing, it would simply diffuse out. So dark gravity cannot behave like a infinite-range field interaction, it would have to simple force that looped or spiraled over sub-galactic distances or a more complex particle.

Either this fifth force is something they are not talking about or its theoretical physics run amock.

 

[K^2]

Your description of dark energy, as a very weak repulsive force that increases over distance, leads precisely to a formulation of it as another fundamental force coupled with gravity in a mechanism not entirely unlike Higgs, which naturally leads to existence of a new boson that is relatively light, but couples very weakly to matter, making it very difficult to detect. This is precisely what these guys claim to have detected, which is precisely why they are talking about dark energy, dark matter, and fifth fundamental force.

Still hand-waving, of course, with a great deal of wishful thinking. Until we have confirmation of the particle from other groups, as well as some measurements on its quantum numbers, there isn't much to talk about.

[PB666]

You forgot the essence of the complaint, what needs the argument a 'once' particle that provides for neutron-electron interaction.