[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[cgwhite4]

https://www.pinterest.com/cgwhite4/ksp-bug-involving-rovers-on-eve/

It looks like the screenshots ended up in reverse chronological order: I'll have to remember to start with the one I want last from now on.  For both rovers, the end with the ladder is the front.  The Rolling Auger (on the left in most shots, distinguishable by the drill-like parts with yellow cylinders on top (they are Augers from Extraplanetary Launchpads)) is where the winch is mounted (on its rear).  The Rolling Forge (with the thinner structure beneath its service bay (the smallest of the Smelters from Extraplanetary Launchpads)) has its connector ports mounted to its sides, so it must "cross the T" on the rear of the Rolling Auger.  In the two pictures on the right, the connection is in undocked mode, and both rovers are stationary despite being on a slight slope, thanks to the brakes.  In the middle picture, I have just switched it to docked mode.  Multiple tires blow, and the rovers begin sliding, which continues in the two pictures on the left, which provide a different angle, and a close-up of a blown tire.  You can also see the barriers I had to "spawn in" (by editing the SFS) as a stopgap to prevent the rovers from continuing to slide downhill.

Please note that the brakes on both rovers are constantly on, no directional inputs were issued (pitch, roll and yaw meters remain zero), there are no tire-eating "seams" between my rovers and the barriers, and although I forgot to switch to surface mode, the target is a nearby stationary object, thus surface velocity = target velocity.

[IgorZ]

15 hours ago, cgwhite4 said:

https://www.pinterest.com/cgwhite4/ksp-bug-involving-rovers-on-eve/

It looks like the screenshots ended up in reverse chronological order: I'll have to remember to start with the one I want last from now on.  For both rovers, the end with the ladder is the front.  The Rolling Auger (on the left in most shots, distinguishable by the drill-like parts with yellow cylinders on top (they are Augers from Extraplanetary Launchpads)) is where the winch is mounted (on its rear).  The Rolling Forge (with the thinner structure beneath its service bay (the smallest of the Smelters from Extraplanetary Launchpads)) has its connector ports mounted to its sides, so it must "cross the T" on the rear of the Rolling Auger.  In the two pictures on the right, the connection is in undocked mode, and both rovers are stationary despite being on a slight slope, thanks to the brakes.  In the middle picture, I have just switched it to docked mode.  Multiple tires blow, and the rovers begin sliding, which continues in the two pictures on the left, which provide a different angle, and a close-up of a blown tire.  You can also see the barriers I had to "spawn in" (by editing the SFS) as a stopgap to prevent the rovers from continuing to slide downhill.

Please note that the brakes on both rovers are constantly on, no directional inputs were issued (pitch, roll and yaw meters remain zero), there are no tire-eating "seams" between my rovers and the barriers, and although I forgot to switch to surface mode, the target is a nearby stationary object, thus surface velocity = target velocity.

Please, try one more thing: enable showing auto struts: hit Alt+F12, find menu "Physics", check option "Visualize Autostruts". Then, connect the rovers in docked mode and make a screenshot. If issue is in auto-struts we'll see it.

[cgwhite4]

Autostrut test complete: 3 images highlighting the results have been added to previous link.  The one now in position 3 shows me turning on the autostrut visualization, position 2 shows the undocked state, and position 1 is the image you requested (and the orange beam pattern therein sure looks different from its undocked counterpart shown in position 2).

[IgorZ]

17 hours ago, cgwhite4 said:

Autostrut test complete: 3 images highlighting the results have been added to previous link.  The one now in position 3 shows me turning on the autostrut visualization, position 2 shows the undocked state, and position 1 is the image you requested (and the orange beam pattern therein sure looks different from its undocked counterpart shown in position 2).

It looks the issue is in auto-struts. I'll see what can be done for the old KAS. Meanwhile, you may try TJ-2 part from KAS 1.0. It's not exactly what you need but it lets connecting rovers with a flexible link, and it should handle auto-struts fine.

[flori1994]

wow that mod is simple said fantastic. i want to use it for a System to get a stranded space probe into a ssto cargobay. have anyone a good advice how to build something like that?

[cgwhite4]

flori1994: Unfortunately, the best way is not possible if you are referring to a pre-existing probe, as it would require installing connector ports and/or magnets on the probe (I mainly use the winch/connector system from this version of KAS) to serve as receptors for your connection.  If I recall correctly, you may still be able to achieve this with a harpoon-type connection, but doing so risks damaging the probe.

[IgorZ]

I tried to make a video for you, guys. But Windows 10 failed me in this effort So here is just a final screenshot.

It's a prototype of wire rope part. It will replace "strut" in old KAS.

UPDATE. Ops! It's supposed to go into KAS 1.0 thread. Sorry.

Edited December 23, 2016 by IgorZ

[cgwhite4]

I now have the penultimate piece of my Extraplanetary Launchpads supported Eve base in position.  I am having further issues getting it connected, which I am sure has to do with the auto-strut bug, and having to perform some SFS-edits to get it to work.  For comparison, problems on Duna, where the rovers use the connectors from KAS 1.0 Beta, have been non-existent.  Once I get the final piece installed, I'll probably just use the facility to replace itself with the new version (and build a recycling rover to recover what metal I can from these problematic rovers).

I wonder if the auto-strut issue is also responsible for a number of Krakens I have experienced at my Gilly base (which also has winch connections, but the components are on landing legs, not wheels).  The five components there have pretty much remained connected throughout operation though: not being caused by making a new connection, but instead seems to occur when a landing ship is approaching within 200m, or when a ship is lifting off from the EL launchpad.  If it is auto-struts, maybe some form of new style connection would help with that too.  May have to test it somehow

[IgorZ]

Auto strut mechanism works really awkward. They only disable when all of the parts report unlocked joint. And when they do the following happens:

I guess that was the main reason of introducing autostruts. Without them system on wheels or legs quickly enters the auto-resonance state.

I'll disable auto-struts for winches in the next patch (0.6.2) but be aware of the side effects.

[IgorZ]

0.6.2 (December 26th, 2016)

• [Fix #191] Unable to use winch with attached in VAB parts with wheels.

[kcs123]

Similar findings regarding struts and wheels in IR thread:

@Araym have also found some settings in game config file that might be useful to know:

Quote

Not tested, BUT I found THIS line in the setting cfg of the whole game:

 

AUTOSTRUT_SYMMETRY = True

Not exactly same thing, but something that is good to know when using KAS parts too, as those are similar to IR mod.
Might be useful for users who don't mess with IR mod at all.

[cgwhite4]

After some careful maneuvering last night, I was able to get the my RollingWorkshop attached to the RollingForge and RollingAuger.  I did, however, have to forego the use of time warp while processing the resources, as when I tried using time warp, part of the RollingWorkshop would undergo Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly upon dropping out of time warp (probably caused, at least in part, by a structural weak point not standing up well to the physics easer).  I am not sure exactly when I will send the final rover to complete my EL Eve base, but it is certainly a good thing that I have the KAS 1.0 beta, as the winch system, while working ok for groups of landers (such as on Mun, Minmus and Gilly), does not seem to be faring well for my rovers on Eve.  My Duna base is currently operating on the KAS 1.0 beta connection system, and will continue do so at such point as I upgrade it from refueling to launching capability.  Should I get that far, an eventual base on Laythe will also use the new system, and the Eve base will almost certainly be tasked with its own replacement once the final piece is installed.

At this point, I have yet to update to KAS 0.6.2, which I will probably try tonight.  That "auto-resonance" state you describe sounds a lot like the Kraken that I periodically experience on Gilly, and the "RUD" depicted in the video looks pretty much exactly like it.  Hopefully, I will not be forced to revert.  I'll be sure to let you know what happens.

Edit: So far so good.  I even did a hardware replacement at my Gilly base (one element had been damaged a bit from some of the various Krakens), which involved connecting and disconnecting hardware, and no issues occurred.  I have yet to check any other base at this point: my current primary target is Moho, so the delta V requirements pretty much dictate that launches occur from my Gilly base.  The final rover to Eve will likely be sent the next time I get a bad interplanetary angle when it is time to start a mission.

Edited December 28, 2016 by cgwhite4
Progress report

[IgorZ]

@cgwhite4, thanks for testing it so thoroughly. It really helps. And just FYI: be careful about KAS beta because it's "beta" Parts can change in the final release.

[Newbie user]

Hi IgorZ. I was testing KAS 0.6.2

 

I don't know if this is a known issue but when I used the winches (IW 50, RW 50) to pull a SC62 container, then I dettached and began to retract the winch without anything attached to return the connector to its original position the game just crashed. Sometimes when its complete retracted or when I change the camera for the EVA kerbal.

I'm using

KAS 0.6.2

KIS 1.4.0

KSP 1.2.1

 

[ExplorerKlatt]

1 hour ago, Newbie user said:

Hi IgorZ. I was testing KAS 0.6.2

 

I don't know if this is a known issue but when I used the winches (IW 50, RW 50) to pull a SC62 container, then I dettached and began to retract the winch without anything attached to return the connector to its original position the game just crashed. Sometimes when its complete retracted or when I change the camera for the EVA kerbal.

I'm using

KAS 0.6.2

KIS 1.4.0

KSP 1.2.1

 

When posting a bug report it would be best if you read this first. 

 

[cgwhite4]

Understood.  I'm currently only using TJ-2 and the corresponding receptor from the beta parts (JS-1 if I recall).  So far, only one such connection is in existence (on Duna).  In the event that the notes for an upcoming patch mention a change to these parts, I may go in and disconnect these connections for safety before updating, and then reconnect after the patch.  Hopefully, nothing will be so bad that I would have to SFS-edit out my Duna rovers (and any such rovers that may eventually be deployed to Eve or Laythe) to allow my save to load.

Edit: After repeatedly encountering a Kraken during an Extraplanetary Launchpads construction procedure (specifically, it occurred when dropping out of time warp to turn equipment on/off) on Gilly, I determined that my "JunkEater" rover, which I had attached to my base via winch to consume off the metal it had produced during recycling, was being thrown into the air, and due to the winch cable, was usually colliding with the workshop module it was attached to.  Manually activating the auto-strut for the specific winch in question prevented the Kraken from occurring, and with the JunkEater's metal tank then at zero, I was then able to turn the auto-strut back off and unplug without incident.  This was the first time since KAS 0.6.2 came out that I attempted a time warp for a rover connected to a lander (I have not yet attempted a time warp for connected rovers with KAS 0.6.2).  If anyone has been experiencing similar issues since 0.6.2 came out, temporarily activating the auto-strut may allow you to proceed: they are certainly causing some problems, but may be preventing others.  Lander-lander connections appear to be ok for the most part: one minor issue did occur, but it happened during an EL "Finalize Build" command, which causes the vessel that is currently to spawn on top of a launchpad, invisibly connected to said launchpad until a subsequent "Release" command is given (the connection allows for fueling and, if necessary, boarding).  Strangely, the part that was most adversely affected during the "Finalize Build" command was 3 winch connections away from the launchpad, so I may have to try activating auto-struts for all winch connections before issuing the "Finalize Build" command.

Edited December 30, 2016 by cgwhite4
New information.

[Mokmo]

For some reason the Portable Strut doesn't have the stacking optionin the inventories of my career and sandbox saves.
I updated to KAS 0.6.4 and KIS 1.4.0, no change. 
Am i missing something here ? hadn't used them for a while... 

[IgorZ]

3 hours ago, Mokmo said:

For some reason the Portable Strut doesn't have the stacking optionin the inventories of my career and sandbox saves.
I updated to KAS 0.6.4 and KIS 1.4.0, no change. 
Am i missing something here ? hadn't used them for a while... 

This happens when some other mod adds a new module to the part. KIS allows stacking parts only of they have known modules. In order to fix it you need to figure out the module and add it to KIS config (or ask mod's author to do it).

[Mokmo]

9 hours ago, IgorZ said:

This happens when some other mod adds a new module to the part. KIS allows stacking parts only of they have known modules. In order to fix it you need to figure out the module and add it to KIS config (or ask mod's author to do it).

Could Tweakscale do that? Seems the Interstellar Fuel Switch maker started including it... 
I've already found a MM patch that tweaks the portable strut (yeah that fast, problem is new, Tweakscale is new)

 

[cgwhite4]

It now looks like I am getting best results with winch autostruts enabled with respect to timewarping while focused on connected landers.  Anyone using Extraplanetary Launchpads (for which KAS is a pre-requisite) like me should take note of this: you may want to manually override the winch autostrut settings for your EL bases.  It appears to work module by module: switching the settings for any winch on a particular lander will affect all winches on that lander.  Not sure what other mods would be particularly affected.

I still have yet to revisit my Eve base in KAS 0.6.2, which is where the autostruts were actually causing me problems (with rover-rover connections).  When making rover-rover connections, you will likely want winch autostruts off (otherwise, you will probably blow multiple tires, and if you are on a slope, you may start sliding even if you were stationary with brakes on before making the connection).  The TJ-2 connector in KAS 1.0 Beta does not suffer from this problem (as determined by my testing on Duna).  In addition to IgorZ's warning about parts changing in Beta, be aware that you will need to get your rovers much closer together to make the connection (close to 2m as opposed to 50m), so be careful with extendable solar/radiator panel placement if you choose to go this route.

[Mokmo]

4 hours ago, Mokmo said:

Could Tweakscale do that? 

 

Took out the KAS patch in the Tweakscale directory... found my culprit... 

[cgwhite4]

Finally managed to get the rover with the EL Launchpad into position on Eve and get everything hooked up (after having to work through / SFS-edit through multiple issues: it certainly is not helping that my complicated set of winch connections exists on a slope).  Another SFS-edit will be required to stabilize the Rolling Auger (damaged by the physics easer) before beginning construction.  Once I get a recycler rover to clean up the old equipment and an adapter to allow the old to temporarily connect to the new for resource transfer, it will be time to construct replacements using the KAS 1.0 Beta connection system, which hopefully will eliminate the problems I have been having on Eve.

[Meltdown]

I finally installed KSP again after 6 month of absence. At my last mission to the Mun, I forgot to attach a darn parachute on my return vessel so I tried to attach two of them on my capsule but somehow they just dissappear but are recognized by the engine as mounted if I switch back into the pilotseat. I know that there was some kind of workaround for that problem but I have forgotten how to rescue kerbal without pulling off a new rescue mission as I allready sent an engineer up with a screwdriver and two chutes in his inventory. Any hints on how to get those darn chutes attached? Maybe another unmaned rocket with preattached chutes which I can disassemble from the rocket and put it on the capsule?

[cgwhite4]

That sounds like a KIS issue, not a KAS issue.  If I recall, the two were once a single mod, but have since been separated (though KIS is required to use the survey stakes in KAS).  If you scroll up to IgorZ's most recent post, you should see six links at the bottom.  The first of these is for the KIS thread, which IgorZ also runs.  In addition to that technically being the correct place to post for your issue, you may find that the information you are looking for is already present on the KIS thread since the issue you are having already occurred at some point in the past.  I have KAS but not KIS, so I am not familiar with the issue myself.  Best to head over there and have a look.  Good luck.

[EstebanLB]

Suggestion, EVA Trusts and Fuel transfer should be at the same tech level as the vanilla ones, why are they higher on the tech tree?