The Aircraft Endurance Challenge

[Van Disaster]

13 hours ago, Gman_builder said:

Well, theres only one way to find out if your plane will win. But you have to do the whole flight and post screenshots for it to count.

If I had a second PC I could leave something flying on for a week ( yeah, seems easy enough to get that length endurance ) I'd do it, but sadly a 10 year old laptop doesn't make the grade.

[Adelaar]

Well, I'm underway in doing this test and am currently over KSC after one circumnavigation of Kerbin, heading 90 degrees, altitude 21000m and having covered a ground distance of 6530 km and a total distance of 6536 (according to the flight log). Once this test is over I'll try to head westward, see if that makes a difference.

[Gman_builder]

26 minutes ago, Adelaar said:

Well, I'm underway in doing this test and am currently over KSC after one circumnavigation of Kerbin, heading 90 degrees, altitude 21000m and having covered a ground distance of 6530 km and a total distance of 6536 (according to the flight log). Once this test is over I'll try to head westward, see if that makes a difference.

Whats your speed?

[Adelaar]

1200 m/s

[rkarmark]

is KJR (kerbal joint reinfrocemet) ok?

[Gman_builder]

10 minutes ago, Adelaar said:

1200 m/s

hmm. ok. Honestly youll get more range and flight time out of a aircraft that flies subsonic. In my run, my engines were consuming 0.02 units of fuel per second and I maintained 7500 meters. (HINT HINT WHEESLEYS)

Just now, rkarmark said:

is KJR (kerbal joint reinfrocemet) ok?

Technically no, according to the rules. But I don't see how using it could give you any sort of advantage so I will allow it.

[Adelaar]

2 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

hmm. ok. Honestly youll get more range and flight time out of a aircraft that flies subsonic. In my run, my engines were consuming 0.02 units of fuel per second and I maintained 7500 meters. (HINT HINT WHEESLEYS)

I know, but I like SPEEEEEED. Besides, I don't plan on sticking behind my PC the whole day And to top it off; I wanted to test my long range supersonic aircraft's range (albeit with an extra fueltank for MOAR range).

Edited July 5, 2016 by Adelaar

[Gman_builder]

1 minute ago, Adelaar said:

I know, but I like SPEEEEEED. Besides, I don't plan on sticking behind my PC the whole day And to top it off; I wanted to test my long range supersonic aircraft's range (albeit with an extra fueltank for MOAR range).

Ok I understand, but let me remind you, this challenge is about range AND flight time. I have a speed challenge as well that you can check out here if your more interested in that.

go to the second or third page for actual discussion, before that is just some jerk arguing with me.

[Adelaar]

If that was the case, you should've added a multiplier for scoring, so (time * distance / fixed numeric to make the scoring make sense). At this moment, it's just two categories, either distance or time. Not the combination of both. I don't plan on flying the longest. Just far.

[Gman_builder]

13 minutes ago, Adelaar said:

If that was the case, you should've added a multiplier for scoring, so (time * distance / fixed numeric to make the scoring make sense). At this moment, it's just two categories, either distance or time. Not the combination of both. I don't plan on flying the longest. Just far.

Ya that's fine, but you seem to be focused on speed so I just pointed out that I have a dedicated challenge for that.

[Adelaar]

Alright. I just landed on KSC's runway with 4.24 units of fuel to spare (butt clenching moments). I have covered a total distance of 13,084,591 m, and a total ground distance of 13,094,509 m with a flight time of 1:55:16. 

 

[Gman_builder]

1 hour ago, Adelaar said:

Alright. I just landed on KSC's runway with 4.24 units of fuel to spare (butt clenching moments). I have covered a total distance of 13,084,591 m, and a total ground distance of 13,094,509 m with a flight time of 1:55:16. 

 

Alrighty, that puts your entry in second place. With @gridghostclose behind. If this is your official entry, you both can submit a second entry as well. Try and keep it short though.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Gman_builder

[Jakalth]

There are 2 schools of thought for distance records really.

1: fly as high and fast as possible, that way you cover as long of distance in a shorter period of time.

2: load as much fuel as you can and use the most efficient engine available, then fly at an optimum height for as long as possible.

 

Both schools of thought are correct.  Both result in long distance flights.  And there are advantages and disadvantages to both.  Going high speed allows you to fly the distance without having your computer running ksp for a long time.  Not everyone has a completely stable computer that can reliably run unattended for hours at a time.  But, going fast burns fuel quickly and less efficiently.  While going slow, efficient, and lofting for a long time lets you squeeze every drop of time and duration out of the fuel you have.  But requires a long term use of the computer, hoping it can run stable for the entire duration of the flight, and constant monitoring of the craft during this flight so it ties you to your computer for a whole day or so.

 

Anyways, 1 day, 4 hours, and 40 minutes into the flight, still got 1092 out of 4620 units of fuel left.  Not going to break a 5 day duration or anything like that, but it's going to go the distance.  12,900Km so far. circumnavigation number 2 closing in on completion.  Also the farthest I've ever flown on Kerbin.

[Gman_builder]

1 hour ago, Jakalth said:

There are 2 schools of thought for distance records really.

1: fly as high and fast as possible, that way you cover as long of distance in a shorter period of time.

2: load as much fuel as you can and use the most efficient engine available, then fly at an optimum height for as long as possible.

 

Both schools of thought are correct.  Both result in long distance flights.  And there are advantages and disadvantages to both.  Going high speed allows you to fly the distance without having your computer running ksp for a long time.  Not everyone has a completely stable computer that can reliably run unattended for hours at a time.  But, going fast burns fuel quickly and less efficiently.  While going slow, efficient, and lofting for a long time lets you squeeze every drop of time and duration out of the fuel you have.  But requires a long term use of the computer, hoping it can run stable for the entire duration of the flight, and constant monitoring of the craft during this flight so it ties you to your computer for a whole day or so.

 

Anyways, 1 day, 4 hours, and 40 minutes into the flight, still got 1092 out of 4620 units of fuel left.  Not going to break a 5 day duration or anything like that, but it's going to go the distance.  12,900Km so far. circumnavigation number 2 closing in on completion.  Also the farthest I've ever flown on Kerbin.

Correct, but if you go the slow and steady route you could potentially break both the distance and flight time records in a single flight(like it did)

[Gman_builder]

23 hours ago, The Optimist said:

Don't worry, he gets triggered occasionally. 

Yo are you Workaroundindutries on KerbalX?

[Cunjo Carl]

1 hour ago, Gman_builder said:

Correct, but if you go the slow and steady route you could potentially break both the distance and flight time records in a single flight(like it did)

Eh, everyone has their own style. I think it's to their credit that people generally prefer style to performance. It makes for fun reading!

I like your flight quite a bit, especially with the broad almost glider-esque wing design. However, I don't think it's a distance record breaker yet, because I've seen a 12 Circumnavigation with a high and fast plane!
http://imgur.com/a/L9L6d

I'm personally going for the hang-time record. My design should loiter around in the air for a Kerbal fortnight. Now I just need a way to make my computer stable for a Kerbal fortnight....
 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Cunjo Carl

[The Optimist]

18 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

Yo are you Workaroundindutries on KerbalX?

ja

[Gman_builder]

22 minutes ago, Cunjo Carl said:

Eh, everyone has their own style. I think it's to their credit that people generally prefer style to performance. It makes for fun reading!

I like your flight quite a bit, especially with the broad almost glider-esque wing design. However, I don't think it's a distance record breaker yet, because I've seen a 12 Circumnavigation with a high and fast plane!
http://imgur.com/a/L9L6d

I'm personally going for the hang-time record. My design should loiter around in the air for a Kerbal fortnight. Now I just need a way to make my computer stable for a Kerbal fortnight....
 

He only flew 17 thousand kilometers and it was done before 1.0.5 so it had a different physics and aerodynamic build. Also, 1.1.3 is really stable, so if you just leave your computer on KSP and don't touch it much or do anything that could make the game prone to crashing you should be OK. For my attempt I was playing on a really unstable system that I don't usually play on so I could use my laptop for other stuff and it still held up fine. I only disturbed the game to take screenshots and check flight stats.

9 minutes ago, The Optimist said:

ja

Dank

Edited July 5, 2016 by Gman_builder

[Azimech]

Let's do something like this with stock turboprops :-)

[Jakalth]

4 hours ago, Azimech said:

Let's do something like this with stock turboprops :-)

Azimech, you crazy!  Don't ever change!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Started my flight on a fine, clear Kerbin day.  The sun was rising into the picturesque morning sky and the Delta Kite was waiting at the end of the runway.  This flight was going to be for the record books.  Our Pilot, Piliana was ready to go, until she was finally briefed on her mission for the day.  2 days in the air, with a limited snack reserve?  Are you crazy?

 

:edit: Forgot to mention this...  always seem to do this...  100% stock.  Only mods used are Kerbal Engineer Redux for finding the right twr and delta-v.  And Pilot Assist mod, for auto pilot during the long flight.  Kerbal Engineer is in partless mode. :end edit:

 

Well, liftoff was slow for the Delta Kite.  All the extra fuel made her heavy and a bit reluctant to take off.  She actually needed nearly 3/4 of the runway to lift.  Oh the horrors...  Once in the air, the craft began a slow and steady 10 degree ascent to its target altitude of 10km.  With all the fuel on board, the two Wheezley engines could barely move her faster then 120m/s in the climb, initially, but I eventually had to lower the angle of ascent as we got higher just to maintain airspeed.  Here we are, still climbing up to altitude, having been in flight for over 7 minutes already.

Spoiler

 

With all the extra fuel on board, the Delta Kite was sluggish and slow as we continued the climb.  In fact, she was getting so sluggish the I had to level off at 9500m to maintain enough airspeed to keep her stable at this height.  At this point, we had already covered 248,128m.

Spoiler

 

I ended up need to burn off some more fuel before continuing the ascent so I set the Pilot Assist's altitude hold at 9500m and let the craft stay at this height for a while.  In fact, I let her fly for about 24 minutes at that altitude before ascending to 9700m where I set the altitude hold again until she had burned off more fuel.  At this point, the craft had covered a distance of 632,316m.

Spoiler

 

I left the Delta Kite flying at 9700m for a much longer time then before, so the craft could get a decent amount of speed built up cause she was a tiny bit too sluggish at the controls yet.  So it wasn't until the craft had been in the air for nearly another hour that I brought her up to her cruising altitude of 10Km.  By now, the total distance covered is up to 1,359,154m.

Spoiler

 

After flying for more then an hour at this height, and having a tiny foible nearly ruin the flight, I decide I better set the hold heading option in pilot assist before it wanders off course again.  I also do my first quick save of the craft in case something goes wrong and snap a pic of the F3 screen so I know how far I had already traveled, just in case.  You know, since loading a quicksave can reset the distance traveled...

Spoiler

 

Nothing really happening here.  Just letting the Delta Kite fly its self around the planet.  I set the pilot assist to limit the crafts max velocity to 170m/s since this seemed to be the most optimum airspeed for this craft.  Or at least that is what Kerbal Engineer Redux was telling me...  We've been in the air for over a day now and had already circumnavigated the equator of the planet once already.  Fuel is looking good, fuel consumption is looking even better.  When we had first reach altitude, we had been using fuel at a rate of 0.11, we are now only using it at a rate of 0.08.

Spoiler

 

Been a few hours since the last check now.  10 hours into the flight and the craft is still putzing along.  Nothing to report other then how smooth Pilot Assist is at flying the craft.  Out Pilot, Piliana, was able to complete a pyramid of cards two times over in the boredom that has passed.  Nothing to see here, but a nice view.

Spoiler

 

Once again, our third and final quick save.  Just a quick update on distance and time in the air in case something happens and we have to reload the save.  This way I know how far we've already traveled.

Spoiler

 

Been a long flight, most of it taking place over night while I was sleeping.  The Delta Kite is close enough to see the mountains near the KSC, and our fuel is no longer enough to do another circumnavigation, so I begin preparations to come in for a landing.  It's nearly flown around the world twice now, quite a feat for a semi-conventional slow flying aircraft that was not initially designed for circumnavigation flights.

Spoiler

 

Once the Delta Kite was nearly over the Mountains, I killed the engines, turned off Pilot Assist, and began a slow gliding descent into the KSC.  The Delta Kite is quite good at gliding so I was actually having a hard time getting the craft to loose speed as I descended.  So I extended the landing gear early just to increase the drag a bit.

Spoiler

 

After a bit of maneuvering to get lined up, and some quick snap turns as well as a few quick pitch ups, I was able to bleed off enough speed to land.  Just before touchdown, the craft is still coming in a bit hot, for the Delta Kite anyways.  Considering it can make a smooth, level landing at speeds of only 40m/s with 3600 units of fuel on board.  So yeah, she's coming in fast.

Spoiler

 

Touchdown is smooth, not even a bump.  This is normal for this craft, with its exceptionally low stall speed at sea level and good gliding characteristics.  We stop short, coming to rest well before the turn to the SPH.  The Delta Kite being just as happy on its landing gear as it is in the air.

Spoiler

 

Final verdict:

Total distance Traveled = 15,214,469m

Total time in the air = 2days, 0hours, 42minutes, 30 seconds.

Fuel remaining = 585 out of 4620 units

Estimated flight time remaining = 1hour 30minutes (+/- 15minutes)

Estimated range remaining = 1,500,000m give or take 150,000m

Spoiler

 

The remaining fuel was not enough to do another circumnavigation, and I do not know the location of KSC2, or at least I have never been able to find it...  So I had to cut the flight a bit short.  I could of spent the rest of fuel circling around KSC, but I also didn't feel like spending the time to do so.  Call my lazy if you will.   Anyways, with the remaining fuel, I took off again and got some speed and performance numbers from the craft before landing once again, on the runway.

Top speed when light on fuel, at sea level, is 267m/s.  Not bad from 2 Wheezlys.  Performing some acrobatic maneuvers, I was able to get it to max out at 15.3G.  Which is quite good for a craft that is not a fighter, and is only using the Wheezlys, which have no thrust vectoring.  Finally I climbed back up to 10km and put the hammer down, she was able to max out at 236m/s in level flight.

 

This last bit was just testing, and when I landed, I still had over 400 units of fuel.  Silly Delta Kite, not quite sure what role it's supposed to fill; fighter, cargo plane, endurance aircraft...

Edited July 5, 2016 by Jakalth

[DualDesertEagle]

My attempt is being done. Plannin' to mid-air-refuel as I pass the KSC again, in theory my plane carries enough fuel to make it 1 and a half laps around kerbin.

[Gman_builder]

4 hours ago, Azimech said:

Let's do something like this with stock turboprops :-)

Ya man for sure, they just have aweful fuel efficiency. I don't expect anymore than 500 kilometers max but we can give it a go. I'll start a challenge thread.

[DualDesertEagle]

Just went past my second sunset, so now I've officially circled the planet once. About 60% fuel left so my assumption that I could make it 1 and a half laps around the planet wasn't that far off.

 

I just noticed that I got a little off course so I'm gonna have to correct that.

 

 

Looks like I'm gonna have to refuel on the night side of kerbin, I'd better add some lamps to the refueler

 

 

 

About to hit the 2nd sun rise and I'm honestly not too confident that I'm gonna make it back to the space center anymore. While I've circled the body of kerbin a bit more than 1 and a half times now I only made it half-way around relative to the planet's rotation as I'm heading east. Should've gone west instead.

 

Oh, and I'm about to cross one HELL of a huge ocean, so I should also prepare for a water landing.

 

 

Just completed the second lap relative to the sun. Relative to the planet's rotation I'm about 2/3 of the way around. Wether or not I make it back to the Space Center, it's gonna be a close race! Jeb and bill have been sittin' in their seats for the last 8 hours and are probably dyin' to take a pee but I'm thinkin' about wether or not I should risk swapping out the crew during refueling (provided I make it to that point!).

 

 

Growin' more and more confident that I'm not gonna make it back to the KSC and instead will be forced to land in the desert, the west coast of kerbal africa or the sea inbetween.

 

 

Just hit the third sun rise and I'm about to pass the last bit of desert before crossing the ocean that separates kerbal africa and the desert! 20% fuel left, I MIGHT just make it!

Edited July 6, 2016 by DualDesertEagle

[StahnAileron]

14 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said:

 Another finding, when traveling in a straight line (and ignoring climbing/decent), ground distance covered seemed to accrue about 2-3 times faster than horizontal speed for low (<10m/s) speeds, regardless of direction. Weird. More experimentation is needed.

That sounds like after ~10m/s, the game switches reference frames, like switching to orbital velocity (referencing the current SoI center) rather than surface velocity (relative to the ground directly below the vessel). Or the game is just buggy/quirky, of which none of us should be surprised.

This one of those moments when I understand why some people just can't get physics. I love the sciences, but it requires you to look at things in a way you normally wouldn't in everyday life.

[DualDesertEagle]

Finally back at the Space Center I'm stuck with a problem: How can I deploy my refueling plane with the challenge plane still in the air?

Edited July 6, 2016 by DualDesertEagle