Toggling RCS roll/yaw/pitch with Action Group?

[Tyko]

I was hoping I could toggle RCS roll/yaw/pitch with an action group, but the options don't even appear in the options when I set up a group. Is there a secret here or is it just not an option?

[bewing]

Not currently an option.

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, tjt said:

I was hoping I could toggle RCS roll/yaw/pitch with an action group, but the options don't even appear in the options when I set up a group. Is there a secret here or is it just not an option?

By toggle, what do you mean?

[fourfa]

This would be nice. But can we ask why? If you don't like using RCS fuel for normal attitude control, just globally disable RCS with the R key and let the reaction wheels handle it. Then reactivate RCS only when you need translation. 

If you're looking for a way to have the rotation axes turned off by default (instead of action group), you can easily do that with a custom config. I use one - can post it up if you want

[Tyko]

 

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

By toggle, what do you mean?

Toggle = turn on and off = quickly enable or disable the rotational thrust from RCS

5 minutes ago, fourfa said:

This would be nice. But can we ask why? If you don't like using RCS fuel for normal attitude control, just globally disable RCS with the R key and let the reaction wheels handle it. Then reactivate RCS only when you need translation. 

Sure, because I have fuel tankers that mostly work just fine using Reaction Wheels for rotation and RCS for translation, but when they are topped off with fuel they handle like cows. so when I can take the time to rotate slowly I want to save RCS fuel and when I'm doing final docking I want to toggle RCS rotation thrust on so I can have better control...For that matter, any heavier vessel can rotate on RWs when there's time, but there are times when you need quicker more precise rotation and it would be valuable to only use RCS fuel during those times when you really need faster response

5 minutes ago, fourfa said:

If you're looking for a way to have the rotation axes turned off by default (instead of action group), you can easily do that with a custom config. I use one - can post it up if you want

Already have one...thanks for the offer

Edited July 29, 2016 by tjt

[Snark]

Well, there is one way you can kinda-sorta hack it.

Put two sets of RCS thrusters on your tanker.  That is, twice as many as you would normally have.  Call them set A and set B.

Set A:  they're normal, they're enabled for rotation and translation.

Set B:  you set their toggles in the VAB so that they're translation-only.

Put the "toggle" action for set A in an action group.

There:  you can now use an action group to toggle "use RCS for rotation".

Of course, it's kind of a hack-- you're carrying twice as many RCS thrusters, with the extra mass that entails, and it'll maybe not look so cool-- but it'll get the job done.

[FullMetalMachinist]

22 hours ago, Snark said:

Of course, it's kind of a hack ...  but it'll get the job done.

Those are the best kinds of hacks! 

[Spricigo]

23 hours ago, Snark said:

Well, there is one way you can kinda-sorta hack it.

Put two sets of RCS thrusters on your tanker.... 

...  "toggle" action... 

It's possible to have a translation only set and a rotation only set?  (can't check it myself because my computer is dead :() 

[Snark]

19 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

It's possible to have a translation only set and a rotation only set?  (can't check it myself because my computer is dead :() 

Yes or no, depending on what exactly you're asking.

If you're asking "could you have one set of RCS thrusters that's translation only, and a different set of RCS thrusters that's rotation only, and put each one in a different action group so you can toggle them independently", then the answer is yes. 

If you're asking "could you have only one set of RCS thrusters, and have one action group that toggles the rotation ability and a different action group that toggles the translation ability", the answer is no.  If you're using an action group, you can only toggle any given RCS thruster completely off or completely on-- you can't toggle just the rotation or just the translation for that thruster.

[Spricigo]

37 minutes ago, Snark said:

 

If you're asking "could you have one set of RCS thrusters that's translation only, and a different set of RCS thrusters that's rotation only, and put each one in a different action group so you can toggle them independently", then the answer is yes. 

That was the question,  thanks. Nice little trick to know. 

 

Until now I designed my crafts to deal with rotation mostly using reaction wheels, and to deal with translation reaction engines (RCS included) .  But bigger crafts can be painfully unwield  and that is about to change  (when I revive my computer *sigh*) 

[Montieth]

Place a set of the quad thrusters at the front and back for max effect on the moment arms for rotation. Put another of the single port thrusters around the CoM for the tanslation function. Each set gets its own action group. 

[Snark]

14 hours ago, Montieth said:

Place a set of the quad thrusters at the front and back for max effect on the moment arms for rotation.

Actually:  if you're going to rely on "ring of thrusters at each end of the ship" for rotation purposes, you'd do better to use the unidirectional thrusters rather than the quad thrusters.  They're much more temperature resistant, they're 20 kg lighter per thruster, and they provide just as much thrust as the quad blocks.

Compare a quartet of quad thrusters (say, placed at one end of the ship) with a quartet of the unidirectional.  To thrust in a given direction, the quad thrusters will give 1 kN of thrust, but two thrusters can participate, making 2 kN of thrust in all.  For the unidirectional ports, only one of them can help you to thrust in a given direction... but they get 2 kN of thrust each.  So it's a wash.

The cases where having quad thrusters helps you:

1. If you have only a single ring of thrusters around your ship's "equator" (i.e. at the CoM), instead of putting a ring at each end of your ship.  Then you'd need the 4-way to be able to get rotation ability.
2. If you want to be able to translate prograde/retrograde (since unidirectional thrusters mounted radially won't help with that).

For my own ships, I generally use one of the following setups, depending on size and shape of craft:

• For small ships:  a single ring of four of the quad thrusters, placed around the ship's "equator" (so that the CoM is at the center of the thruster ring).
• For small ships where I can't do the above, because hatch placement or something prevents me from using 4-way symmetry for mounting them:  put a pair of the quad thrusters mounted on left/right sides, and a pair of the unidirectionals also mounted on the left/right sides (right next to the quads).
• For big, massive ships that are very long on the longitudinal axis:  a ring of four RCS thrusters at each end.  One of those rings is unidirectional, the other ring is quads.  (I need the ring of quads so that I have RCS authority on the prograde/retrograde axis.)