OPM in stock?

[Brownhair2]

On 8/3/2016 at 0:31 AM, AlamoVampire said:

Rumor at one point was Eeloo was to be a moon of GP2. Not sure why it got shelved.

It was one of NovaSilisko's ideas, and he left the dev team.

[ElJugador]

Firm no. OPM is decent as a mod, but it hews way too close to the real solar system to be truly interesting for me, and everything beyond Sarnus is kind of lacking because of it too, IMHO. Not enough interesting stuff as far as moons go, besides Wal/Tal and Thatmo.

Furthermore: personally, I think we need one of the gas planets to be bigger than Jool (preferably two of them so Jool is 2nd smallest) and one of them to actually be a huge terrestrial planet in disguise. (Nova...)
 

Edited August 7, 2016 by ElJugador

[AlamoVampire]

@Brownhair2 i think it got shelved before he left <i think> but, still, i think its a valid thing to have. We need more planets and moons and more stuff to see/do when there in stock ya know?

[Scientia1423]

7 hours ago, Brownhair2 said:

It was one of NovaSilisko's ideas, and he left the dev team.

Then CaptRobau moved it in to Sarnus orbit. Trust me, it's a lot difficult to get to when your spacecraft is 10 meters above Ovok then blows up as if the collision mesh says: "I can't let you land your pile of junk here, it needs to die"

Here is my proof: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/93999-112-outer-planets-mod-20-complete-overhaul-better-terrain-nicer-terrain-textures-improved-scatter-etc-21-may/&do=findComment&comment=2690252

This is why we can't have nice things.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Scientia1423
This is why we can't have nice things.

[Hodari]

19 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

At the moment, you visit a planet, that is it.. there is no reason to go back unless you want to build a base...

If anything, this makes a very good argument against adding another gas giant.  There's even less you can do with them since you can't even land on them.  Though having a Saturn analog with a few moons and a ring system would be a cool way to solve that problem, especially if they could make the rings have their own "biome" to collect science from.

[kiwi1960]

4 hours ago, Hodari said:

If anything, this makes a very good argument against adding another gas giant.  There's even less you can do with them since you can't even land on them.  Though having a Saturn analog with a few moons and a ring system would be a cool way to solve that problem, especially if they could make the rings have their own "biome" to collect science from.

I only play sandpit, so do not need science.

However... they could add a freak of nature.. a jelly giant... you can land on it but the landscape is always shifting, moving, collapsing... THAT would be a challenge to land on AND build a base.

(I agree with you that a gas giant with rings and moons would be good though...)

[Scientia1423]

12 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

I only play sandpit, so do not need science.

Sandpit?

[kiwi1960]

31 minutes ago, Scientia1423 said:

Sandpit?

do what you want, nothing locked, no contracts no science.... all facilities at max improvement... no research... etc etc etc etc...

[Third_OfFive]

I disagree. I would like to see new planets added in, sure, but I would much rather have squad take the time to make their own planets rather than just integrate a mod, especially now while they're in the middle of basically restructuring the entire game.

Although I would like Eeloo to be a moon of a second gas giant..

Edited August 7, 2016 by Third_OfFive

[Hevak]

On August 2, 2016 at 3:19 PM, tjt said:

EXACTLY....if the devs have X hours to devote to improving the planetary system I'd much rather see those hours devoted to improving biomes or colonization, etc rather than importing OPM or any planetary mod into Stock.

This, so much this.^

On August 2, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Alshain said:

I think OPM is a great mod and should stay a mod.   The biggest detractor of any further out planets is that timewarp has computational limits even in on-rails mode.  It takes forever to timewarp out to Eeloo in stock, more planets, further out? Nah.

And this ^, yet  below.

On August 2, 2016 at 3:46 PM, The_Rocketeer said:

While I agree with some above that the devs have better uses for their time atm, I also think that OPM is a big step towards making KSP feel like a finished game. The similarities between our Solar system and the Kerbal system are glaring, yet beyond Jool/Jupiter everything just gets a bit weird/non-existant. OPM is one of my most desirable mods despite the fact I've never even visited Eeloo in stock yet (I keep finding reasons to stay on Kerbin). I continue to dream of launching deep-space probes like Voyager, and OPM feeds those dreams in a way that Eeloo alone doesn't (even if I haven't gotten round to either yet).

Also this ^  lol. 

So I think for now keep it a mod, and improve planets overall first. Then add in some new planets/moons. I'd like to a see a lot more varied features and places to see on planets like others have mentioned many times. I'd love to have procedurally generated planetary features for everything except kerbin, to add a bit a newness to each play through of the game. Possibly a few different procedurally generated features on some parts of kerbin. Though I think due to the planet, kerbin should probably be unchanged, because the options for making it different each time would be lower than you could do with say minmus, dres, duna etc. they could be varied much more every time. 

 

2 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

I only play sandpit, so do not need science.

However... they could add a freak of nature.. a jelly giant... you can land on it but the landscape is always shifting, moving, collapsing... THAT would be a challenge to land on AND build a base.

(I agree with you that a gas giant with rings and moons would be good though...)

That is an interesting idea. Though I fear it wouldn't work well with the kraken issues that plague ground bases even on stable planets. But if the base itself could be stable enough it would an interesting concept for sure.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Hevak

[Joonatan1998]

I think the OPM planets are too obiviously analogs to real planets to fit the stock system that well.

I mean:

Stock: Moho, Eve ,Kerbin, Dres, Jool, Eeloo.

Only Jool is even somewhat similar to the name of the real planet.

OPM: Sarnus, Urlum, Neidon

All of those names are similar to the real ones.

The colors of the OPM gas giants all similar to the real planets, unlike stock.

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Joonatan1998

[Alshain]

6 hours ago, Joonatan1998 said:

I think the OPM planets are too obiviously analogs to real planets to fit the stock system that well.

I mean:

Stock: Moho, Eve ,Kerbin, Dres, Jool, Eeloo.

Only Jool is even somewhat similar to the name of the real planet.

OPM: Sarnus, Urlum, Neidon

All of those names are similar to the real ones.

The colors of the OPM gas giants all similar to the real planets, unlike stock.

 

Dres and Ceres?  Mun and Moon?  Even Moho is as close to Mercury as Jool is to Jupiter.

I mean, I agree, I don't want to see OPM in stock but that just struck me as an odd justification.

Also Eve and Venus are both historical beautiful women in different theologies.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Alshain

[Joonatan1998]

3 hours ago, Alshain said:

Dres and Ceres?  Mun and Moon?  Even Moho is as close to Mercury as Jool is to Jupiter.

I mean, I agree, I don't want to see OPM in stock but that just struck me as an odd justification.

Also Eve and Venus are both historical beautiful women in different theologies.

I don't know how I didn't notice Dres and Ceres...

I think I just looked at the first letters.

I was talking specifically about planets, because most moons in stock don't really have an obivious analog.

 

 

 

 

That mean that adding 3 planets with names so similar to the real ones (2 first letters) would fit, one or even 2 of them could have such names, but not all 3.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Joonatan1998

[The_Rocketeer]

I don't really care what the planets are called... I mean, what does that have to do with anything?

[Codraroll]

7 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

I don't really care what the planets are called... I mean, what does that have to do with anything?

The names themselves aren't problematic, they're rather... symptomatic. It's the whole thing with having a Mercury analog near the Sun, followed by a Venus analog, followed by an Earth with a large, Moon-like moon, then a Mars analog further out, followed by Ceres and Jupiter... once you start thinking about it, the Kerbal solar system is an awful lot like the real one. Sure, there are a few extra moons here and there, but the overall trends are very similar to what we know from real life. I can understand that some players would like this fantasy solar system to differ a bit more from real life. Not having roughly the same planets in the same order.

There are good outliers, though. I applaud Eve for being very little like Venus, so technically my comparison isn't all that accurate. The purple is a nice touch too. Duna having a huge moon like Ike is cool too, I like Minmus very much, and Laythe is awesome. But I feel it wouldn't have hurt to be a little less conservative with KSP's planets. There could be rocky worlds with rings, planets of strange colours (again, kudos to Eve), worlds with extreme mountains, gas giants with a solid core you can land on, planets going the other way around the sun, planets in extremely elliptical orbits, or tons of other little quirks, many of which are explored in mods already. Instead, we have a system that is very Sol-like, with a Kerbal analog for most of the inner bodies. It's not a 1-to-1 likeness, but close enough for us to long for a little more creativity.

[The_Rocketeer]

27 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

the Kerbal solar system is an awful lot like the real one.

I completely agree with this statement, and completely disagree with the gist of your post. I would like the Kerbal system of 'finished' KSP to be much more like the RL solar system, by having the rest of the missing planets! I don't see similarity or parallels with the solar system as creativity-damping, or in any way negative - on the contrary, the similarities ground the game in reality and feed the imagination of those who know even a little about RL space exploration. Any players of KSP with even the least interest in the Apollo program has doubtless at least tried to recreate it in game. Making KSP too strange and random would make it much less approachable for many players - more game-like and less of an extension of the various physics/rocketry hobbies or interests that we already have.

That being said, I'm completely happy with the idea of mods that totally alter and alien-ate the Kerbal system or even add other visit-able systems, but stock KSP should always be mostly analogous to our own system imho.

Edited August 8, 2016 by The_Rocketeer

[ElJugador]

@The Rocketeer I'm afraid I have to disagree. Too much similarity would make the system (especially the outer system) rather dull and boring in my opinion, as I have already pointed out previously. Would we be so eager to go to Jool if all we had there was three small rock moons of a few colors and a Mun-sized icemoon?

Edited August 8, 2016 by ElJugador

[Tyko]

I actually agree with @The Rocketeer - my initial draw to KSP, and the thing I tell others first about it, is how amazing it is to be able to capture the general experience (if not the nitty details) of the real space program. Keeping things somewhat consistent reinforces that, like the physics engine, it's a whole heck of a lot like the real thing. In a world of dozens (if not hundreds) of space ship games. The idea that this game "feels real" is what I love most about it.

I think they struck a great balance between keeping things semi-real and adding enough twists like Laythe and Purple Eve to add a sci-fi flavor. I still wish there were more actual points of interest to visit and collect science on than just Mun's Highlands, Minmus' Highlands, Duna's Highlands, etc etc

Edited August 8, 2016 by tjt

[The_Rocketeer]

3 hours ago, ElJugador said:

Would we be so eager to go to Jool if all we had there was three small rock moons of a few colors and a Mun-sized icemoon?

Eager? As far as I'm aware the majority of KSP players have never left Kerbin's SOI, let alone been to Jool. Besides, what more is there to Jool's moons apart from rock, ice and colour - o wait, I know - Laythe. I myself have never put a Kerbal into the Jool SOI. The point isn't that I'm eager to go to these planets, it's that the more KSP feels like the real thing, the more it makes me feel like I'm doing something that real people only get to do if they have far more wealth, intelligence and influence than I do. That's a mighty powerful draw, far stronger for me than just playing a game with game reasons to do things - that I can get anywhere.

All that being said, the 'quirks' of the Kerbal system (Eve, Laythe, Ike, Minmus etc) are very flavourful and I wouldn't demand that they be changed at all - if I really wanted that I would play RSS. Nor do I want to just bung Saturn, Uranus and Neptune into KSP, but OPM's Sarnus, Urlum and Neidon? Yes, those I'm very comfortable with. They certainly don't belong in RSS, and they (and particularly their moons) certainly fit with the stock-Kerbal styling and standard - some would say they even elevate them.
 

2 hours ago, tjt said:

I think they struck a great balance between keeping things semi-real and adding enough twists like Laythe and Purple Eve to add a sci-fi flavor. I still wish there were more actual points of interest to visit and collect science on than just Mun's Highlands, Minmus' Highlands, Duna's Highlands, etc etc

Yes, this, and oh god THIS.

[Francois424]

I like the Idea, because as opposed to KER, KAS, and any other mods that changes the core experience of KSP, all that OPM does is gives you a bigger sandbox to play in.

I've wanted this since January or so.  OPM is such a wonderfully crafter and professionally done addition that I don't see any reason to not make it stock.
People have been waiting for new places to explore for RL years now.

+1 from me.   In the meantime I will always install that mod.  It's just too good to pass.

[Joonatanr]

This is honestly the best addition I could imagine to KSP at this point. OPM is such a high quality mod and I never play without it.
It would make a lot of sense to integrate it into stock as it would save Squad lots of dev resources and give a huge effect in terms of gameplay. (Dozen more bodies to explore and all the work's basically done.)

Also despite the fact that OPM is a great mod, it still suffers from the general problems that mods have. Definitely not blaming any mod devs here, just to be clear. But the thing with mods is that people 
develop them out of their free time and they only develop them as long as they have the motivation to perform what is essentially unpaid work. Eventually OPM might no longer be developed and KSP might be updated
to a version that makes the mod incompatible. This means that a very large portion of the game will suddenly stop existing.

This is for example what happened to Astronomer's Visual Pack, an absolutely amazing mod that at one point was ismply made obsolete by stock developments. It would be such a shame if this 
were to happen to OPM. So it seems to me there is good reason to integrate this into stock - as long as the mod devs are OK with at ofcourse.

 

[AlamoVampire]

is it possible to run OPM w/out module manager? Id LOVE to have more places to go, but, because I refuse to use Module Manager, I had to remove OPM. any thoughts?

Edit: Color me beyond angry. I just tried OPM with Kopernicus after deleting the module manager dll. I am not a programmer and running anything that is a programming related mod just isnt going to happen in my KSP install. I installed OPM and Kopernicus and as I said deleted that infernal module manager and the mod refuses to work. 

I now, more than ever would like this to be stock. We need more planets and more to do at them. This mod becoming stock would help a great deal. I hate the fact that my lack of programming skill is keeping me from mods that look like fun.

Edited August 11, 2016 by AlamoVampire

[Hevak]

3 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

is it possible to run OPM w/out module manager? Id LOVE to have more places to go, but, because I refuse to use Module Manager, I had to remove OPM. any thoughts?

Edit: Color me beyond angry. I just tried OPM with Kopernicus after deleting the module manager dll. I am not a programmer and running anything that is a programming related mod just isnt going to happen in my KSP install. I installed OPM and Kopernicus and as I said deleted that infernal module manager and the mod refuses to work. 

I now, more than ever would like this to be stock. We need more planets and more to do at them. This mod becoming stock would help a great deal. I hate the fact that my lack of programming skill is keeping me from mods that look like fun.

I don't understand what programming skills have to do with using mods, or why you hate module manager so much? Just install those 3 mods and you're good to go. No programming skills involved, I have below zero programming skills and I can use these mods fine. 

module manager just allows the  mods to make changes to parts and other things in the game that they need to so they can work. You don't have to do anything but drop the mods in the gamedata folder.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Hevak

[AlamoVampire]

@Hevak firstly, i dont code,thus a mod that is designed to allow scripting is a no go. Period. Beyond that is not being discussed. Secondly to me a mod not improving Ksp gameplay or being directly utilized such as mechjeb or chatterer and is laying dormant, is a mod that has no place eatting resources. It would be like getting TAC life support and never launching a kerbal, or say getting kerbal alarm clock and only running a single mission and never setting an alarm. To that end, i dont code and do not alter files for ksp, thus its wasted resources. I dont expect you understand what im driving at.

Edited August 11, 2016 by AlamoVampire

[Hevak]

15 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Hevak firstly, i dont code,thus a mod that is designed to allow scripting is a no go. Period. Beyond that is not being discussed. Secondly to me a mod not improving Ksp gameplay or being directly utilized such as mechjeb or chatterer and is laying dormant, is a mod that has no place eatting resources. It would be like getting TAC life support and never launching a kerbal, or say getting kerbal alarm clock and only running a single mission and never setting an alarm. To that end, i dont code and do not alter files for ksp, thus its wasted resources. I dont expect you understand what im driving at.

Nah, I get what you're driving at,  its not that difficult to get  and it's cool that's your decision.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Hevak