Avoiding a bad connection through a stack separator

[MaxwellsDemon]

I've had a few cases where I used a low-profile stack separator (which I tend to prefer for aesthetic reasons) but the two parts intended to be separated by it were actually linked to each other, rather than via the separator... which obviously defeats the purpose.   Most notoriously, this can happen when a service module is attached to a capsule heat shield "through" the separator, rather than via it, so it leaves me unable to jettison the service module before reentry.   Is there a simple way to avoid this while still avoiding the big ugly shroud that appears when the parts are spaced farther apart?

[Snark]

12 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

I've had a few cases where I used a low-profile stack separator (which I tend to prefer for aesthetic reasons) but the two parts intended to be separated by it were actually linked to each other, rather than via the separator... which obviously defeats the purpose.   Most notoriously, this can happen when a service module is attached to a capsule heat shield "through" the separator, rather than via it, so it leaves me unable to jettison the service module before reentry.   Is there a simple way to avoid this while still avoiding the big ugly shroud that appears when the parts are spaced farther apart?

The connect-through-the-separator problem is annoying, yes.  The only defense I've found is to just be very careful about placement-- the decoupler has a non-zero thickness, a part that's connecting through-it versus to-it will jump some distance on the longitudinal axis when that happens.  Just make sure you're really connecting to the bottom of the node.

I agree that the heat-shield shroud is kinda ugly.  I like that there is one... but the particular implementation of it has always seemed kind of jarringly half-baked to me, it doesn't match the visual style of all the other rocket parts and seems sort of like a not-quite-done-yet placeholder texture.  Not to mention sticking out so far to the side, as it does.  I wish the heat shield shrouds looked more like the auto-shrouds that get added to the various rocket engines.

That said... IIRC, isn't there a tweakable option for the heat shield in the VAB to control whether to show the shroud or not?  (Am not in front of a KSP computer right now, so can't check it for myself, and it's been a while so I could be misremembering.)  If indeed there is a shroud-display option, you could just turn that off, if that's your problem.

[Signo]

Yep, you can get rid of the shroud right clicking on it in the VAB.

[MaxwellsDemon]

Yes, but removing the shroud just leaves a visible gap between the stages, like there's some levitation going on... which isn't much better than the ugly shroud.  Using a higher-profile separator solves the problem, of course, but it wouldn't be my first preference.   If there's some way to be certain I'm connecting on the right node-- making sure I'm connecting the stages to the separator rather than to each other-- that would be ideal.

[swjr-swis]

10 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

If there's some way to be certain I'm connecting on the right node-- making sure I'm connecting the stages to the separator rather than to each other-- that would be ideal.

The offset gizmo (called 'Tool: Move' in the editor) is your friend. Connect the separator by itself first, then with the offset gizmo, pull it away from the node until it is outside of the node 'ball' (*). Now you can safely place the next part and it will attach only to the separator. Next select the offset gizmo again, select the separator, and hit space - voilá, it resets to its default location, and all parts are connected to the correct nodes.

 

(*: note that sometimes, you cannot pull it out enough in the longitudinal direction, but that's ok, it works just the same pulling it sideways.

Edited August 4, 2016 by swjr-swis
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[MaxwellsDemon]

Thanks.   I'll give that a whirl!

[klesh]

 

19 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

Yes, but removing the shroud just leaves a visible gap between the stages, like there's some levitation going on... which isn't much better than the ugly shroud.  Using a higher-profile separator solves the problem, of course, but it wouldn't be my first preference.   If there's some way to be certain I'm connecting on the right node-- making sure I'm connecting the stages to the separator rather than to each other-- that would be ideal.

 There are 2 places to attach available on the bottom of the heat shield.  The lower attachment point produces the shroud, which as you mention will leave a gap when disabled.  The upper attachment point is direct and wont create a shroud.  This is the one you want.  

In the MkII form I always put a heat shield under the capsule and attach the thin blue separator to it, and fine tune the distance with the Move tool.  If it is too close the separator can become stuck to the heat shield and will need to be spun or pulled off by a Kerbal on EVA.

[MaxwellsDemon]

7 minutes ago, klesh said:

In the MkII form I always put a heat shield under the capsule and attach the thin blue separator to it, and fine tune the distance with the Move tool.  If it is too close the separator can become stuck to the heat shield and will need to be spun or pulled off by a Kerbal on EVA.

Yeah, though I usually discover it at the point where a Kerbal EVA is out of the question!      But I'll definitely check out the move gizmo.  If i can get it right once, I can save it as a subassembly and not have to worry about it subsequently.