Rocket Part Revamp Discussion Thread

[Diche Bach]

Slightly off-topic, but it seems not substantive enough for a new thread: @benjee10: What is the difference between "naturalism" and "realism?"

I seem to recall this distinction being a big deal in a two-semester series of Art History courses I took at Uni decades ago, but the distinction has become blurred.

[benjee10]

Just now, Diche Bach said:

Slightly off-topic, but it seems not substantive enough for a new thread: @benjee10: What is the difference between "naturalism" and "realism?"

I seem to recall this distinction being a big deal in a two-semester series of Art History courses I took at Uni decades ago, but the distinction has become blurred.

We did a module on this in my Film/Theatre degree this year actually, I can't speak for art, but in performance naturalism focuses on something emotionally heightened but presents it in a very realistic way (real-time, no location changes, very detailed set), whereas realism focuses on mundane, every-day events. So I'm not sure it's really applicable to rocket engines, though you could say that an asset has realistic elements without being overall realistic or naturalistic. 

[SmashingKirby148]

So it seems like these didn't make it into 1.2......

Hello darkness my old friend...

[Temeter]

BTW: Looking at the actual devnote, they make it pretty clear that chris' parts didn't make it into this 'realease'. Not to mention general news sayin the rocket part overhaul was delayed.

Why did we start making conspiracy theories about them then?

 

31 minutes ago, SmashingKirby148 said:

So it seems like these didn't make it into 1.2......

Hello darkness my old friend...

Straight from the devnote:

Quote

Furthermore, Nestor has some exciting news about the engine parts Chris was working on previously. If you haven’t seen these parts, well… they look awesome! Unfortunately, these parts didn’t make it to this release, but we know you are excited about them and the good news is that we will be releasing these files for you to add them to your creative inventory. Go nuts and show us what parts you can build with these great 3d assets!

Edited September 11, 2016 by Temeter

[SmashingKirby148]

Just now, Temeter said:

Straight from the devnote:

 

Oh! Ok then, but what does it mean show us what parts we can build with these great 3D assets? Does it mean these engines are like a mod, where we can plop them into GameData and they will work, or will we need to do some stuff in Unity to get them to work?

[Temeter]

5 minutes ago, SmashingKirby148 said:

Oh! Ok then, but what does it mean show us what parts we can build with these great 3D assets? Does it mean these engines are like a mod, where we can plop them into GameData and they will work, or will we need to do some stuff in Unity to get them to work?

It most likely means they are only model data (=3D Assest), maybe even not completely implemented (mb even missing animations?).

Although I'd guess modders realiostically just have to write the configs for these parts themselves.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Temeter

[SmashingKirby148]

1 minute ago, Temeter said:

It most likely means they are only model data (=3D Assest), maybe even not completely implemented (mb even missing animations?).

Although I'd guess modders just have to write the configs for these parts themselves.

Oh, alright then. Well, I guess I have to wait a bit more then

[Red Iron Crown]

Check out this image included in the download package of Porkjet's parts:

[Crocket]

4 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Check out this image included in the download package of Porkjet's parts:

Cool! My pre-release download failed, so do we get the -15 and the -303?

[Red Iron Crown]

1 minute ago, Crocket said:

Cool! My pre-release download failed, so do we get the -15 and the -303?

None of these engines are included in the prerelease. There is a separate download of art assets for modders to use that includes the parts shown in the OP plus a new Mk1 Pod and 1.25m tanks.

[Temeter]

Awesome, we'll even get surface attachable variants without mounting plates!

[Temeter]

Lets try to figure out the engines!

So, Kerbodyne is (advanced?) US rocket engines, that's kinda obvious. New KR-1 is of course F-1 inspired (even got the double KR-1B ). Poodle is AJ10. The Rhino is harder... maybe the dropped M-1 engine (Liquid Hydrogen F1 variant)?

But what are the others? Jebs Junkyard could be early US rocket engines, the LVT-45 seems to resemble an H-1/RS27 engine, poodle is lunar landing module (which was also used as rocket upper stage). But I don't get the LVT15/30. 15 might be russian inspired following a single R108 (soyuz) bell and the pug reminds me just a bit of their fregat upper stage.

A for Rockomax, that's harder. Probably european or japanese engines? I think the skipper resembles the H2B E7 cire engine, and the massive pipe thingy feels less american.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Temeter

[Frozen_Heart]

The new parts look amazing, and I'm really hyped for when they finally make it to the game. Unlike some people I think they match the current realistic style and are exactly where KSP should be. That sheet showing all the new parts is particularly interesting to look at in detail.

The only changes I'd suggest would be:

Bring the Thrust up to 25 and 20kn respectively, while upping their weigh and lowering their ISPt. Atm they don't really have a role, and are only used as they are so tiny they provide good dV. IMO they should act as probe sized launch engines, with clusters able to launch 1.25m vehicles.

The new fuel tanks still have that black line at the end of each, which makes stacks of them look like stacks of small fuel tanks. Remove that line and imo it would look much nicer and more like a single fuel tank.

 

[tater]

The design sheet is awesome. Kudos, @Porkjet! Exactly what parts have needed for ages, a coherent design document looking at the parts as a whole. Truly excellent work.

[Wjolcz]

2 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Check out this image included in the download package of Porkjet's parts:

Oooooh, these are so pretty. I need them. All of them.

Bravo, @Porkjet. You are a true artist.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Veeltch

[lCristol]

OK now I'm totaly confused. 

Did these parts just didn't make it in time for the pre release of 1.2 but will be included in the final 1.2 update or do have to wait for 1.3?

[Wjolcz]

11 minutes ago, lCristol said:

OK now I'm totaly confused. 

Did these parts just didn't make it in time for the pre release of 1.2 but will be included in the final 1.2 update or do have to wait for 1.3?

I feel like they weren't finished on time. The "Puff" engine made it to the release. I think it's because it doesn't need a tankbutt/boat tail (it's radial). It seems like they want to include a tweakable for full size/boat tail/compact, but probably don't have time for it, or something.

It would be awesome to have such tweakable IMO.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Veeltch

[Frozen_Heart]

10 minutes ago, lCristol said:

OK now I'm totaly confused. 

Did these parts just didn't make it in time for the pre release of 1.2 but will be included in the final 1.2 update or do have to wait for 1.3?

I think 1.3 for most of them. Though maybe some will appear in 1.2.1, 1.2.2, etc

[Capt Snuggler]

just so we can quantify the love for Porkjet's work here, all those in favour click "like" the OPs comment.

-or can we add a poll..?

[IronCretin]

So, In the package of new rocket parts, in addition to the parts, is this image, outlining porkjet's plans for the revamp:

http://imgur.com/fi1JHNK

(If someone could tell me how to embed an image, I'd greatly appreciate it. I cant seem to make it work.)

 

Interestingly, it looks like we'll be getting stock mesh switch, giving us regular, boattailed, and compact mount versions of the engines. There will also be three new engines, the LV-T15 "Valiant", a small 1.25m lifter engine; the KR-1 "Boar", a 2.5m lifter egine, split fron the Twin-Boar, and modeled after the F-1; and the LV-303 "Pug", A smaller orbital engine to fill the gap below the poodle (and yes, those tanks contain fuel). In addition, many peple will be happy to know that the Vector will become a 2.5m engine, though it still has a mountless version. There's a few other interesting bits, and I thought I'd share this with anyone who didn't go poking around in the package.

Edited September 14, 2016 by IronCretin

[Red Iron Crown]

@IronCretin Merged in your thread to the one already in progress about the revamp.

[IronCretin]

@Red Iron Crown Sorry, I looked, and I couldn't find one.

[KSK]

7 hours ago, tater said:

The design sheet is awesome. Kudos, @Porkjet! Exactly what parts have needed for ages, a coherent design document looking at the parts as a whole. Truly excellent work.

Couldn't agree more.

I've expressed concerns about the rocket part overhaul on other threads and I'm very happy to admit that I was wrong! The engine designs look great anyway and having the regular and boat-tailed versions of each is inspired. A simple (in hindsight) and effective way of letting people pick between a more rugged, early space program aesthetic, or going for someting sleeker if that's their preference.

Top quality job @Porkjet!

Edited September 14, 2016 by KSK

[tater]

Having a plan is actually the key issue that prevents the balkanization of parts that plague the current game.

[Merandix]

It seems KSP is now suffering from an old problem.

KSP was designed, the rocket-parts where a bunch of raked together random bits of art. Squad didn't like them, but priority was never there. Everyone thought they looked weird.

They looked weird for so long, many people are now loving the raked-together feel of the parts. It's KSP's look.

Except it isn't.

It was never intended to be the look of the game, they were merely placeholders that have been there for too long. It merely BECAME the look of KSP. Unintentionally

I'm fully in favour of Squad releasing an official mod with the old engines as a little goodbye to the old art... but I LOVE the new engines. A shame they're not getting in the game for the coming update. Also.. do I spy more possibilities for tiny rockets? Will we be getting sounding rockets now? Will that mean we will also be getting a new tech-tree? Is that perhaps the reason the engines got 'delayed'?

So many questions.