Why weren't the part upgrades included for the old parts?

[LordFerret]

5 minutes ago, regex said:

Does Squad want us to rebuild everything every update?

I'm on my 5th time around playing a Science game; So I'd say that's a "yes". At least, I'm convinced of it.

[Temeter]

10 hours ago, regex said:

Seriously, this is such a cool feature I have to wonder why it was left out of this release. It's not like it couldn't have been done for the existing engines that will eventually get the new assets, all the stuff is right there.

Basically, in case you've been living under a rock (even I, Mr. I-Can't-Be-Bothered-To-Load-The-Game-This-Month, downloaded and checked it out), Porkjet's current grab-bag of re-styled assets was released presumably to show off what has been done (it's amazing) while also serving to showcase the new part upgrade system (it's amazing).

Here's an Imgur album that kind of shows off the system. I checked out the part config files to see how it was managed, created a new career, cheated in a ton of science, and then followed the upgrade path. You'll also notice that the craft file includes the upgrades used.

http://imgur.com/a/Ipy3A

So yeah, it's working for the LV-T range, that could have been included in this release, it's purely config changes. For that matter, the art assets in the pack could have been included in this release as well because damn does my Saturn Ib thing look awesome. Only problem with it is that you can't specify the upgrades in sandbox (which makes me sad).

I think they didn't use it because the whole engine sortiment is probably going to be rebalanced around some new engines and the upgrade system when the rocket overhaul hits. So some of the old work would just become obsolete when the next version hits.

Porkies new part chart and the new engine stats (e.g. stronger LVT 40, 303, etc) strongly imply that there is going to be quiet a bit of rebalancing, especially finally some work on the 1.25m engines.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Temeter

[regex]

 

5 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

(Note: While I implied it would work with my phrasing, do not try to splice my words into the above sentence in place of "want" unless you're trying for for the most rudimentary of amusements.)

<insert "Squad is a pretty cool guy" crack here>

3 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

I'm on my 5th time around playing a Science game; So I'd say that's a "yes". At least, I'm convinced of it.

Every new install of RO for me is pretty much an entirely new game, what with updates and all, so it's mandatory.

Edited September 15, 2016 by regex

[Superfluous J]

11 minutes ago, regex said:

insert "Squad is a pretty cool guy" crack here

Eh updates game and changes parts and anything.

[Corona688]

29 minutes ago, regex said:

So, wait, you want to rebuild everything again twice? Because you can bet everyone's going to be rebuilding after all these fixes, and then they'll rebuild again after all the new parts come out.

We'd all prefer a magic happyland where saves are compatible for all eternity no matter how drastically the game mechanics change, but I had to give up my 0.8.5 ships eventually.

Meanwhile, my 1.1 ships are working as well or better in 1.2.  I haven't rebuilt anything -- or rather, carried on the same design progression I was doing in 1.1.  So far I've found no break-the-world changes.  If anything it's a relief.

Quote

Do you think ...

Does Squad want us to rebuild everything every update?

Squad really can't win, can it?

It's a large part of the game.  You don't have to redesign but were probably doing so anyway.

And now, having given people what they wanted, physics improvements and game expansion for the existing game, everyone's angry and screaming for the new parts which would break their saves.  Do they want to start over?  Do they want to rebuild everything every update?

Squad really can't win, can it?

The main difference is choice.  I have the choice to continue my 1.1 save in 1.2, expand it into one using commnet, leave as is, alter my ships to 1.2's more accommodating wheel physics or use as-is, etc, etc.  I don't think having this choice is a bad thing.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Corona688

[klgraham1013]

6 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Squad really can't win, can it?

Don't apply one person's negativity to the whole community.   Most of us are quite satisfied.  

Criticism is not always bad.

Edited September 15, 2016 by klgraham1013

[Corona688]

Fair enough.  One gets a skewed impression reading the dev threads.

[regex]

3 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Squad really can't win, can it?

I think they're winning pretty well, what with a successful title on multiple platforms.

3 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

And now, having given people what they wanted, everyone's all angry and screaming for all the new parts which will break their saves instead.

Hell yeah I want new or overhauled parts! Porkjet is doing some amazing work and it'd be nice to have some coherency in the design. The closer we get to everything looking and working realistic the better; I don't want to hand my kid a game that looks like a cartoon, after all.

I need that new Skipper, srsly guise.

[Corona688]

10 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Criticism is not always bad.

Eh...  Until now I'd never seen anyone complain that Squad didn't break all their saves and ships.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Corona688

[Temeter]

10 minutes ago, regex said:

I need that new Skipper, srsly guise.

Dat Mainsail, tho.

[pincushionman]

I swear I read from a developer that the "part upgrades" feature was intended for modders to take advantage of, and wasn't planned to be used at all in stock. I thought it was said by @NathanKell in the devnotes thread, but I can't find it there. It was in the last couple of days.

Edited September 15, 2016 by pincushionman

[Superfluous J]

5 minutes ago, pincushionman said:

I swear I read from a developer that the "part upgrades" feature was intended for modders to take advantage of, and wasn't planned to be used at all in stock. I thought it was said by @NathanKell in the devnotes thread, but I can't find it there. It was in the last couple of days.

There was a strong note of "currently not, and we don't know if ever" in that.

Game programmers don't generally work on stuff they never intend to include in their game.

[regex]

4 minutes ago, pincushionman said:

I swear I read from a developer that the "part upgrades" feature was intended for modders to take advantage of, and wasn't planned to be used at all in stock. I thought it was said by @NathanKell in the devnotes thread, but I can't find it there. It was in the last couple of days.

Oh, you mean this?

Quote

Also, regarding upgrades, I said we had not used them ourselves yet, but that modders could. I did not say we never would.

Hello meaningful progression!

[monstah]

2 hours ago, regex said:

So, wait, you want to rebuild everything again twice? Because you can bet everyone's going to be rebuilding after all these fixes, and then they'll rebuild again after all the new parts come out.

Do you think ...

Does Squad want us to rebuild everything every update?

Haven't we been doing this since forever? I have  

[Temeter]

2 hours ago, regex said:

Hello meaningful progression!

It's like suddenly it makes sense the early parts are kinda excrements, since they become better over the course of the tech tree!

I'm hoping very much Squad follows the ideas found in the early material we got, a well as the upgrading.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Temeter

[regex]

7 minutes ago, Temeter said:

I'm hoping very much Squad follows the ideas found in the early material we got, a well as the upgrading.

I have a feeling they will.

[W. Kerman]

4 hours ago, regex said:

So, wait, you want to rebuild everything again twice? Because you can bet everyone's going to be rebuilding after all these fixes, and then they'll rebuild again after all the new parts come out.

Do you think ...

Does Squad want us to rebuild everything every update?

Isn't that the point of KSP? You building things? Not a huge problem for people who don't make SSTOs and planes.

[Frozen_Heart]

I'm hoping that even if they weren't planning on doing the part upgrades for the stock game, they see this feedback and decide to change their mind and add it in.

 

 

[regex]

9 minutes ago, W. Kerman said:

Isn't that the point of KSP? You building things? Not a huge problem for people who don't make SSTOs and planes.

Not a huge problem for those people either, since that's the point of the game, amirite?