The hardest docking * 2

[Sresk]

So I spent almost 2 hours trying to figure out docking, and then another 2 hours fixing a part I broke. I've been launching huge 200 ton stations in only 2 stages because I've been afraid to figure out docking. But one of my stations finally needed some more life support supplies, needed the crew rotated and I figured I'd add some extra radiators and solar panels sooo... its time for a new module to be added.

Built a great SSTO with a nose docking port, added my new module onto that nose and went to the mun. Got into a nice rendezvous without too much trouble and decoupled and docked the module in about 10 mins... I was feeling good so I figured I'd dock the SSTO so I could bring the crew home. I got everything lined up, docking port alignment mod was telling me I was spot on everything looked perfect, but every time I got close I would just slide off... Like 2 magnets with like poles pushing against each-other... 2 hours later I gave up and brought the SSTO home without the crew (I didn't want to ferry 12 kerbals through a space walk after so much time already wasted). I just couldn't figure out what was wrong had everything lined up, docking port alignment mod was telling me I was spot on everything looked perfect, but every time I got close I would just slide off.

I went into the the VAB and guess what... my nose docking port was installed upside down. Facepalm!

However the story isn't over, during all of that silliness with the reversed polarity on my docking port I managed to tap my huge solar blanket and damaged it. So now my station was lopsided because I had to chop off one arm. So... back into space to add another module. 

However this time I didn't even have a docking port to align my nav ball to. I had to put a claw on the front of the new module and pilot it in purely by sight... I'm actually quite proud of the results.

http://imgur.com/gallery/LIUGu

Got it lined up quit well if I do say so myself.

You can see the alignment is good even if the claw is a little off center. Thank goodness my target was a huge strut.

The new Arm was actually bigger than I thought it would be.

The ship that brought it to the mun station is hanging towards the Mun with a crew capacity of 22 ready to bring my station crew home after space camp.

[problemecium]

I'll be honest - I'm actually surprised so many people manage to put docking ports on backwards so often. I don't think I've ever done it o_O

[Waxing_Kibbous]

26 minutes ago, parameciumkid said:

I'll be honest - I'm actually surprised so many people manage to put docking ports on backwards so often. I don't think I've ever done it o_O

I've done it once and since then always snap my docking ports on when placing them, and check them 3 times afterwards. Docking is hard enough when they are actually placed correctly

[cubinator]

Docking is hard...

Docking to a spinning station at a docking port that isn't aligned with the COM is unrealistically hard.

[septemberWaves]

Docking in the prerelease is even more difficult. I've spent all day trying to dock things by eye because that yellow highlight over targeted vessels is missing in version 1532 of the prerelease. Although, it's fine with a large station in the daylight. What's really difficult is trying to rendezvous with a single command pod in the darkness for a rescue mission.

[worir4]

In these situations, there is no time for caution....

[Waxing_Kibbous]

31 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

Docking in the prerelease is even more difficult. I've spent all day trying to dock things by eye because that yellow highlight over targeted vessels is missing in version 1532 of the prerelease. Although, it's fine with a large station in the daylight. What's really difficult is trying to rendezvous with a single command pod in the darkness for a rescue mission.

Hmmm I did a double rescue last night in 1532 and did not have this issue, do you mean the square box that shows the target distance when it gets close enough?

[septemberWaves]

Just now, Waxing_Kibbous said:

Hmmm I did a double rescue last night in 1532 and did not have this issue, do you mean the square box that shows the target distance when it gets close enough?

Yes, that box. It hasn't been showing up for me in that version. I've conducted two rescues in Munar orbit and also constructed quite a large station around Kerbin, and had to do it all by eye.

Edited September 25, 2016 by eloquentJane

[Waxing_Kibbous]

43 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

Yes, that box. It hasn't been showing up for me in that version. I've conducted two rescues in Munar orbit and also constructed quite a large station around Kerbin, and had to do it all by eye.

Are you using mods? I just did some rescues in stock and took screenshots. The fact that you are eyeballing it successfully means to me you have some pretty good skills tho

 

[septemberWaves]

@Waxing_Kibbous I wasn't using any mods (I don't even know of any that work in the prerelease), and after reloading the game, the yellow boxes are back. The version is the same, so I don't know what could've caused the vanishing target marker previously. In any case, I'll be planning rendezvous maneuvers for the daylight in future, since shadows seem to have gotten a lot darker (though that may be because I'm now able to use better graphics settings).

[SpaceastronautX]

19 hours ago, parameciumkid said:

I'll be honest - I'm actually surprised so many people manage to put docking ports on backwards so often. I don't think I've ever done it o_O

That's right, the unic time I docked was in the scenario of "Refueling at Minmus" and I tried and I finally docked half hour later and I was 50 meters below the Space plane

[Sharpy]

The one docking I didn't complete...

Offset the port by some 200 meters away from the actual craft, wanting it to appear just floating somewhere nearby instead of sticking to the target.

So not only my viewpoint was so far off I was looking for a tiny clump of dots in space, all RCS was on the craft so any precision movement of the port was totally impossible - rotating the craft by half a degree would move the port by some 10 meters.

[RX2000]

I'm still having a pretty hard time just rendezvousing 2 ships in orbit, much less docking yet. Gonna keep practicing on getting the rendezvous down. 

[Sresk]

@RX2000 I was in the same place for a while but I'm a dirty cheater and watched mechjeb do it a number of times. And then watched a few videos and then spent a few hours just messing around in orbit trying to do it myself. I'm still not a master but the real trick I found is setting a manuver and then messing with the radial in and out as that really moves your time to intercept the most.

[Leafbaron]

This might help- Orbital Rendezvous and Docking Tutorial

 

 

-Leafy

[HvP]

On 9/25/2016 at 0:25 PM, eloquentJane said:

@Waxing_Kibbous I wasn't using any mods (I don't even know of any that work in the prerelease), and after reloading the game, the yellow boxes are back. The version is the same, so I don't know what could've caused the vanishing target marker previously. In any case, I'll be planning rendezvous maneuvers for the daylight in future, since shadows seem to have gotten a lot darker (though that may be because I'm now able to use better graphics settings).

You probably hit F4 at some point. It toggles the vessel indicators off/on. I've toggled that off by accident many many times reaching for F5. There's also an option box for it in the main settings menu for "Show vessel indicators."

[septemberWaves]

4 hours ago, Sresk said:

@RX2000 I was in the same place for a while but I'm a dirty cheater and watched mechjeb do it a number of times. And then watched a few videos and then spent a few hours just messing around in orbit trying to do it myself. I'm still not a master but the real trick I found is setting a manuver and then messing with the radial in and out as that really moves your time to intercept the most.

Using MechJeb's various autopilot features is incredibly helpful for learning to play the game. I couldn't conduct an orbital rendezvous or even an accurate gravity turn until I'd spent some time observing MechJeb.

Also, rather than radial burning, what you could do is move the entire node around the orbit by dragging the white circle along the orbit line. This has pretty much the same effect as radial burning, but doesn't add any fuel cost beyond the cost of raising your apoapsis or lowering your periapsis (whichever is applicable) to meet your target's orbit. That being said however, it does get rather complicated when you're trying to rendezvous with something in a highly eccentric orbit, in which case radial burning can help more sometimes.

[RX2000]

8 hours ago, Sresk said:

@RX2000 I was in the same place for a while but I'm a dirty cheater and watched mechjeb do it a number of times. And then watched a few videos and then spent a few hours just messing around in orbit trying to do it myself. I'm still not a master but the real trick I found is setting a manuver and then messing with the radial in and out as that really moves your time to intercept the most.

Right, I've watched several tutorial videos & know pretty much how its done. Get in an orbit a little or above or below them & then when they are close transfer over. Its not really not knowing how, its more or less just an issue of practice at this point. I'm sure its like most other things, if you do it enough it'll eventually become second nature. Kind of like when you first start KSP & cant even get a rocket into orbit, ("A gravity turn? Whats that?!" lol ) but pretty soon you can do it almost with your eyes closed. Hopefully after I do a few more rendezvous (errm whats the plural of rendezvous?) it'll be like that for me. 

[Sresk]

7 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

Using MechJeb's various autopilot features is incredibly helpful for learning to play the game. I couldn't conduct an orbital rendezvous or even an accurate gravity turn until I'd spent some time observing MechJeb.

Also, rather than radial burning, what you could do is move the entire node around the orbit by dragging the white circle along the orbit line. This has pretty much the same effect as radial burning, but doesn't add any fuel cost beyond the cost of raising your apoapsis or lowering your periapsis (whichever is applicable) to meet your target's orbit. That being said however, it does get rather complicated when you're trying to rendezvous with something in a highly eccentric orbit, in which case radial burning can help more sometimes.

That only works if your already reasons close or are willing to wait several orbits. I'm impatient and want to get the rendezvous done in just one or two orbits. Which is why I've also started putting my stations in much higher orbit. When they are too low I don't have enough room to move my orbit without dipping into the atmosphere.

 

3 hours ago, RX2000 said:

Right, I've watched several tutorial videos & know pretty much how its done. Get in an orbit a little or above or below them & then when they are close transfer over. Its not really not knowing how, its more or less just an issue of practice at this point. I'm sure its like most other things, if you do it enough it'll eventually become second nature. Kind of like when you first start KSP & cant even get a rocket into orbit, ("A gravity turn? Whats that?!" lol ) but pretty soon you can do it almost with your eyes closed. Hopefully after I do a few more rendezvous (errm whats the plural of rendezvous?) it'll be like that for me. 

I used to let mechjeb launch and land for me. Now it's easier to do it myself. I will admit if I had a way to auto doc ports.... I'd probably use that

[Warzouz]

On 25/9/2016 at 3:06 PM, cubinator said:

Docking is hard...

 

Docking to a spinning station at a docking port that isn't aligned with the COM is unrealistically hard.

Is it even possible (in game and IRL) if you can't offset your own COM the same way ?

[eddiew]

With enough RCS and computer control, I imagine you can spin around something that isn't your CoM... but it's not going to be efficient.

Easier to stop the station spinning methinks

[cubinator]

5 hours ago, Warzouz said:

Is it even possible (in game and IRL) if you can't offset your own COM the same way ?

Theoretically, yes:

4 hours ago, eddiew said:

With enough RCS and computer control, I imagine you can spin around something that isn't your CoM... but it's not going to be efficient.

 

4 hours ago, eddiew said:

Easier to stop the station spinning methinks

But if the only way to stop it's spinning is to dock to it and use your own torque...it's necessary.

[Sresk]

Yeah your trying to put yourself in orbit around something with no gravity... so you need thrust to counteract centripetal force... so if you imagine the targets CoM as the middle of a tiny no mass planet that your trying to orbit then  your prograde velocity would need to be equivlent to the targets rotational velocity and you'd need to thrust radial in to maintain that orbit. Oh and you'd need to constantly use torque to keep you nose pointed "down". Once youve established that then you could dock.... there's no way I'd want to do that s by hand and I'd imagine that maneuver would give NASA pilots and comps a run for their money.

If you added any kind of wobble or procession to the targets spinning I bet it becomes physically impossible.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Sresk