[1.12.x] Konstruction! Weldable ports, servos, cranes, and magnets!

[RoverDude]

It's a bug in one of the supporting DLLs - or rather, something that changed in between prerelease versions.  There will be a new version out later today.

[sarbian]

3 hours ago, Crabman said:

I reported this bug to sarbian, but he didn't liked it and was a little angry about the report (even with provided log and bug description as described on this forum).

If I understood correctly he said the bug is on roverdude's end, but I'm not sure.

Log is here, if anyone is interested. Tested with only MM and Konstruction.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikdbywe1zdkn18v/output_log.txt?dl=0

Yep, i was a little angry. I don't debug others mods.

[JAFO]

...

Edited October 9, 2016 by JAFO

[Beeso3]

On 10/8/2016 at 6:34 PM, RoverDude said:

Too vague, need more info.

Never mind, I just removed my old module manager.

[Kerbart]

Roverdude, awesome mod! It will take some work to learn how to work with it but it should really help with constructing multi-piece bases (either in orbit or on the ground). A few things that I noticed that are not meant as criticism but rather as something that can hopefully be included in updates:

• The welded docking ports are awesome and I love the "poof! smoke! magic!" effect. However, to increase realism and make construction a bit more predictable, instead of deleting the two docking ports, could the be replaced by a "welded docking ring" (a piece that basically does nothing) that provides similar spacing? Personally I also think it'd be fun if the "compress" action can only be done by an engineer, similar to how that works with EVA Struts
• The crane seems to have some issues with transferring forces and torque. When mounted inside a U-shaped transporter, the whole assembly violently flips over backwards when engaging the magnet. Not sure if that's a unity issue or something with the model.
• I have a hard time lifting the cradles with the fork lift. One side will pick it, but the other side goes right though it, throwing it off-angle. As a layman I'd say there's a collider issue, but I'm not an expert at that.

[Wahgineer]

@RoverDude, would you consider making a variant of the crane that has a claw, so we don't have to use gregarious amounts of power to lift stuff? It could also work for early tech in career mode. Love the mod by the way!

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Roverdude, awesome mod! It will take some work to learn how to work with it but it should really help with constructing multi-piece bases (either in orbit or on the ground). A few things that I noticed that are not meant as criticism but rather as something that can hopefully be included in updates:

• The welded docking ports are awesome and I love the "poof! smoke! magic!" effect. However, to increase realism and make construction a bit more predictable, instead of deleting the two docking ports, could the be replaced by a "welded docking ring" (a piece that basically does nothing) that provides similar spacing? Personally I also think it'd be fun if the "compress" action can only be done by an engineer, similar to how that works with EVA Struts
• The crane seems to have some issues with transferring forces and torque. When mounted inside a U-shaped transporter, the whole assembly violently flips over backwards when engaging the magnet. Not sure if that's a unity issue or something with the model.
• I have a hard time lifting the cradles with the fork lift. One side will pick it, but the other side goes right though it, throwing it off-angle. As a layman I'd say there's a collider issue, but I'm not an expert at that.

- I've considered that, tho part of this part reduction.  That may very well be something I do tho.

- I'd need to see the vessel

- Possibly, will have to check.

(For all of these please log separate GitHub issues so they are not lost in the shuffle)

1 hour ago, awsumindyman said:

@RoverDude, would you consider making a variant of the crane that has a claw, so we don't have to use gregarious amounts of power to lift stuff? It could also work for early tech in career mode. Love the mod by the way!

That would move into the realm of moving nodes around, and is out of scope (i.e. I do not want to rewrite IR).

[Wahgineer]

@RoverDude, I just meant to replace the magnet with a claw.

[gmiddlemass]

Wow! Another fantastic mod Roverdude...

Is it sad that I like the little Akita Rover the best?

On that note, I too have a slight problem with the Akita wheels.

Firstly I tried the basic Akita cab with a single load platform on the rear (so only a 4 wheel rover) and a science jr. on top the rear platform. I would drive for about 100M with no problems and then the rover would suddenly stop and filp over forwards. I think however it may be down to the weight of the science jr being too much for the wheels as they looked like they were sinking into the ground slightly. Tried repeating the same setup without the science jr and I did not have the issue also the wheels didn't look like they were sinking into the ground so much. This may well be just how wheels work now and it's my fault for overloading them but i thought I would let you know,

Second, with either of the rover builds above I found that I was unable to drive in a straight line and the rover always slowly drifted to the right. It didn't seem to matter which direction I drove so didn't seem to be related to the terrain I was driving on (the runway and the flat grass to the side of it). Checked and made sure that the traction control settings etc. for each wheel were set the same (default) and they were. Again it may well be nothing as often aircraft slip to the side on the runway but I've not noticed that behaviour on the grass before so thought i would report it.

Apologies if this sounds at all like nit picking, I have a tremendous respect for the work that you do on this game and can't wait to try more of your mods in the future.

[The-Doctor]

@RoverDude I REALLY need this mod, also a big thank you. I want to build bases using cx aerospace rather than planetary base systems and I want to do it NASA style, like the below. Also can you add parts to extend the legs? I would really love to can have my landers land cargo pods and extend the legs down far enough to touch the surface. 7:13 in the video.

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by The-Doctor

[Tarheel1999]

2 hours ago, awsumindyman said:

@RoverDude, I just meant to replace the magnet with a claw.

I'm pretty sure he understood the request.  Your request is just more complicated than you think.

[FellipeC]

Thanks Roverdude!

I got some errors and a black screen when I try to lower the leg of the cradle http://imgur.com/a/VDJyo

[goldenpsp]

6 minutes ago, FellipeC said:

Thanks Roverdude!

I got some errors and a black screen when I try to lower the leg of the cradle http://imgur.com/a/VDJyo

Maybe read back a page?  Your exact error is there.

[Kerbart]

7 hours ago, RoverDude said:

- I'd need to see the vessel

Tadaa! The Aristocrats!

I'm not a Github expert but I'll do my best and upload this gif file and the craft file.

Edit: Github updated.

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Kerbart
Updated Github

[Tarheel1999]

 

24 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Tadaa! The Aristocrats!

I'm not a Github expert but I'll do my best and upload this gif file and the craft file.

Edit: Github updated.

 

The problem there seems to be a combination of craft design and too strong magnet. That kind of went exactly as I would have expected. Those girders are pretty light. A similar design might work if you made a H instead of a U. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Tarheel1999

[Seeker89]

@RoverDude I wonder if a good way to counter act problems, like the gif above or using the magnet to throw parts. could be to set the default of the magnet lower?  

[FellipeC]

48 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Maybe read back a page?  Your exact error is there.

Could not find. Found a similar but not the same.

[Kerbart]

14 minutes ago, Tarheel1999 said:

 

The problem there seems to be a combination of craft design and too strong magnet. That kind of went exactly as I would have expected. Those girders are pretty light. A similar design might work if you made a H instead of a U. 

“as expected?” You're aware that the crane is mounted between the wheels, not in front of them? Please draw me a force diagram that shows how this would flip over. Or are you suggesting that it's the momentum of the load that carries over? 

[Tarheel1999]

1 hour ago, Kerbart said:

“as expected?” You're aware that the crane is mounted between the wheels, not in front of them? Please draw me a force diagram that shows how this would flip over. Or are you suggesting that it's the momentum of the load that carries over? 

Since you want to be snippy, how about you engage the magnet at 0 and then slowly ramp it up. Like RoverDude did in his stream. Or build a more stable and/or heavier crane. 

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, Kerbart said:

“as expected?” You're aware that the crane is mounted between the wheels, not in front of them? Please draw me a force diagram that shows how this would flip over. Or are you suggesting that it's the momentum of the load that carries over? 

I believe what's happening is that the mass of the load is being computed at the one known location for the crane - the base.  A sudden load gets transferred to the suspension of the wheels - towards the back - which bounce up and the slight vertical offset is enough to continue the tip.  A slower load takeup would likely help as the bounce wouldn't occur, and the flat system could remain stable.

Of course, the other option is that the magnet is trying to pick up the front of it's own vehicle - and succeeding.    (Reduce the traction on the front wheels, pull everything forwards and up, and the back brakes aren't strong enough to hold things in place...)

[RoverDude]

6 hours ago, awsumindyman said:

@RoverDude, I just meant to replace the magnet with a claw.

That would be node manipulation, or a serious chunk of code.  Out of scope at this time.

6 hours ago, gmiddlemass said:

Wow! Another fantastic mod Roverdude...

Is it sad that I like the little Akita Rover the best?

On that note, I too have a slight problem with the Akita wheels.

Firstly I tried the basic Akita cab with a single load platform on the rear (so only a 4 wheel rover) and a science jr. on top the rear platform. I would drive for about 100M with no problems and then the rover would suddenly stop and filp over forwards. I think however it may be down to the weight of the science jr being too much for the wheels as they looked like they were sinking into the ground slightly. Tried repeating the same setup without the science jr and I did not have the issue also the wheels didn't look like they were sinking into the ground so much. This may well be just how wheels work now and it's my fault for overloading them but i thought I would let you know,

Second, with either of the rover builds above I found that I was unable to drive in a straight line and the rover always slowly drifted to the right. It didn't seem to matter which direction I drove so didn't seem to be related to the terrain I was driving on (the runway and the flat grass to the side of it). Checked and made sure that the traction control settings etc. for each wheel were set the same (default) and they were. Again it may well be nothing as often aircraft slip to the side on the runway but I've not noticed that behaviour on the grass before so thought i would report it.

Apologies if this sounds at all like nit picking, I have a tremendous respect for the work that you do on this game and can't wait to try more of your mods in the future.

All good, not sure why the Akita is giving you problems - post pics please, confirm wheels face the right direction.

 

4 hours ago, The-Doctor said:

@RoverDude I REALLY need this mod, also a big thank you. I want to build bases using cx aerospace rather than planetary base systems and I want to do it NASA style, like the below. Also can you add parts to extend the legs? I would really love to can have my landers land cargo pods and extend the legs down far enough to touch the surface. 7:13 in the video.

 

Awesome video!  Not sure what you mean by extend the legs?  WRT the wheels - it's a bit sticky at the moment with stock wheels.

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Tadaa! The Aristocrats!

I'm not a Github expert but I'll do my best and upload this gif file and the craft file.

Edit: Github updated.

 

Start magnets at zero, slowly move up.  Otherwise hilarity will ensue.

2 hours ago, Seeker89 said:

@RoverDude I wonder if a good way to counter act problems, like the gif above or using the magnet to throw parts. could be to set the default of the magnet lower?  

Yeah, default of zero would make sense

[Kobymaru]

8 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Tadaa! The Aristocrats!

Yeah, that does not look like physics. (Would be a cool magic-magnetic-torque-drive though ).

Looks like somewhere, some newtonian "counter" forces need to applied, no?

[gmiddlemass]

Hmmm... Strangely enough the rover's behaviour seems to have changed since trying it this morning. The small rover now behaves perfectly and drives straight and true.

The rover with the Science Jr on the back no longer flips but does slip very slowly to the right. I suspect it's probably just me or one of the other mods I'm trying so I'm going to start a fresh game today anyway when the full 1.2 version drops.

Pics anyway for reference...

[RoverDude]

Possibly wheels were put on incorrectly?

[nekokamiguru]

I am using a near fresh install of version KSP v1.2 and I am having difficulties getting the mod correctly installed, I have unpacked the file in the gamedata directory and only the construction ports are turning up in the parts list. I only have mechjeb installed as my only other mod. Do I need other mods to make it work properly or have I done something else wrong?

Edited October 11, 2016 by nekokamiguru