[Minimum KSP: 1.12.2] Snacks! - Friendly, Simplified Life Support

[Angelo Kerman]

Snacks 1.23.0 is now available:

- You can now disable Snacks/Soil resource processing if desired. Just rename Snacks.cfg to Snacks.txt in the LifeSupportResources folder.

[AmpCat]

@Angel-125, after a brief break from KSP, I'm back at my exploration, but despite a few patches of Snacks! and you adding the battery support, I'm still having the same problem of running out of electricity for my stations' recyclers, when I'm not focused on them. I even have over 75k of EC storage on a small station with just 2 hitchikers, and I still get this issue. The only way for me to avoid it is to turn on Infinite Electricity. The other issues I was having all seem to have been fixed.

I did notice a weird glitch where it seems consumption of snacks halted while at second from max time-warp, but I couldn't reproduce it at the time. I'll keep an eye on that and see if I can get it to happen repeatably.

Edited August 30, 2019 by AmpCat

[golkaidakhaana]

@Angel-125 Ever since reinstalling KSP, I've been experiencing really bad framerate drops whenever I open the Vessel Status tab, and these persist until I restart the game. EDIT: It also appears to drastically increase CPU usage when I open the aforementioned tab.

Output log (from a couple days ago, nothing has changed except for me updating Nvidia):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkrxho31mbic793/output_log.txt?dl=0

Other log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mwm4bvogty7dma4/KSP.log?dl=0

Edited September 2, 2019 by golkaidakhaana

[Angelo Kerman]

20 minutes ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

@Angel-125 Ever since reinstalling KSP, I've been experiencing really bad framerate drops whenever I open the Vessel Status tab, and these persist until I restart the game. EDIT: It also appears to drastically increase CPU usage when I open the aforementioned tab.

Output log (from a couple days ago, nothing has changed except for me updating Nvidia):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkrxho31mbic793/output_log.txt?dl=0

Other log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mwm4bvogty7dma4/KSP.log?dl=0

That's probably the simulator running. There is a stop button in the latest version.

[golkaidakhaana]

On 9/2/2019 at 5:21 PM, Angel-125 said:

That's probably the simulator running. There is a stop button in the latest version.

I did try the "stop" button, but it didn't seem to have any effect on performance.

[Bartybum]

Regarding the simulation stop button, from a QoL perspective why does this issue even exist to begin with? Why does it not just perform a single calculation the moment the Snacks GUI is opened? This is the only thing so far that's stopped me wanting to install the mod

Edited September 14, 2019 by Bartybum

[coredumpster]

On 8/30/2019 at 4:51 PM, AmpCat said:

@Angel-125, after a brief break from KSP, I'm back at my exploration, but despite a few patches of Snacks! and you adding the battery support, I'm still having the same problem of running out of electricity for my stations' recyclers, when I'm not focused on them. I even have over 75k of EC storage on a small station with just 2 hitchikers, and I still get this issue. The only way for me to avoid it is to turn on Infinite Electricity. The other issues I was having all seem to have been fixed.

I did notice a weird glitch where it seems consumption of snacks halted while at second from max time-warp, but I couldn't reproduce it at the time. I'll keep an eye on that and see if I can get it to happen repeatably.

Anyone else seeing this issue?

I'm experiencing something similar.  I'm also using Nertea's Near Future Tech mods, including the latest Dynamic Battery mod.

Seeing strange behavior when running at higher levels of warp, where EC consumption will periodically spike ( even when it's in focus )

I have a couple craft with Soil Recyclers running, and plenty of EC.  2 of them even have Nuke generators, so they are not reliant at all on Solar to generate EC.  They have more than enough generation to cover EC needs, yet I still get warnings about running out of EC at high warp, and soil just builds up, doesn't seem to be getting recycled properly.  :\

I know that Nertea's Dynamic Battery mod adjusts the "buffer" EC available in the background, to cope with the way KSP does background calculations, but even setting that to a higher multiplier it does not prevent the issue.

Is this known?  Any workarounds, beyond not using the recyclers?

[RazgrizThree]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:47 PM, Agustin said:

I was just using Snacks for the first time. I don´t see the fresh air thing/s. Also I was adding Snacks container and the GUI recognized it but my estimated time was stuck in 1.00 years and 407 days, no matter I had 3000 or 5000 snacks recognized in the same GUI. Weird. There were placed before the last stage maybe that´s taken into account and it doesn´t use the snacks in the previous stage?
I am using 1.7.3

Having the same problem here,the timer max out at 1year 407days all in the same stage (Space Station)

[King Arthur]

Also having problems with soil recyclers demanding EC during timewarps at 100x and higher, despite running Dynamic Battery Storage. I don't mind it too much since it's mostly an aesthetic problem, though right-clicking away the messages gets old fairly quickly.

I'm almost tempted to just remove EC consumptions from resource converter modules, which soil recyclers use... :V

Edited September 19, 2019 by King Arthur
Also seeing the problem at 100x if I give it enough time.

[Lach_01298]

Found a Bug: if Air is enabled using classic Stock mode, opening an omniconverter crashes the UI. After a bunch of looking it's because in wildbluetools omniconverters there are 2 omniconverters named  "Air Scrubber". One uses Minerite the other uses Oxium. For a temporary fix i removed the Minerite one.

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, Lach_01298 said:

Found a Bug: if Air is enabled using classic Stock mode, opening an omniconverter crashes the UI. After a bunch of looking it's because in wildbluetools omniconverters there are 2 omniconverters named  "Air Scrubber". One uses Minerite the other uses Oxium. For a temporary fix i removed the Minerite one.

I have to remember to consider that when the WBT UI breaks. I've experienced that too much and caused Angel to run around in circles to debug it.

[Lach_01298]

20 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I have to remember to consider that when the WBT UI breaks. I've experienced that too much and caused Angel to run around in circles to debug it.

Most times I've experienced the UI breaks are when Omniconverters are defined wrong or there are 2 with the same name, as it was in this case. I was just pointing out that for the next release just rename one of the omniconverters.

[coredumpster]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:05 PM, King Arthur said:

Also having problems with soil recyclers demanding EC during timewarps at 100x and higher, despite running Dynamic Battery Storage. I don't mind it too much since it's mostly an aesthetic problem, though right-clicking away the messages gets old fairly quickly.

I'm almost tempted to just remove EC consumptions from resource converter modules, which soil recyclers use... :V

It's more than just aesthetic.

I have a crewed Duna mission en route, with more recycler capacity than kerbals, so it *should* be recycling soil faster than it's generating.  If I let it run in the background unfocused ( IE, while doing other missions around Mun / Minmus ), then I get the warnings about out of resources, and if I change focus back to the ship in question, my Soil resource is full, and I have fewer Snacks than I expect.

Also, now that I have a couple of large stations, I notice that I get the out of electricity alert for *all* craft running Soil Recyclers at the same time.  That happens whether I have all Soil Recyclers enabled, or just a single one.  And it *only* happens when running in the background.  If I keep the craft in focus and run at high warp, I do not get a warning for the craft in focus, only for the ones that are running in the background.  And the craft in focus starts depleting it's Soil resource as the recyclers process it properly.

I've tried cranking up the buffer size in Dynamic Battery Storage, and the problem still happens.

Setting up a sandbox instance to come up with an easily recreated test that shows the problem, but it looks like the bug is somewhere in the background processing calculations.  Maybe when the random event fires?

[King Arthur]

@coredumpster I had a nagging hunch that the recyclers weren't actually doing their thing with how much soil is accumulating in my stations, but I'd never bothered to investigate it. That is concerning. :\

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, coredumpster said:

It's more than just aesthetic.

I have a crewed Duna mission en route, with more recycler capacity than kerbals, so it *should* be recycling soil faster than it's generating.  If I let it run in the background unfocused ( IE, while doing other missions around Mun / Minmus ), then I get the warnings about out of resources, and if I change focus back to the ship in question, my Soil resource is full, and I have fewer Snacks than I expect.

Also, now that I have a couple of large stations, I notice that I get the out of electricity alert for *all* craft running Soil Recyclers at the same time.  That happens whether I have all Soil Recyclers enabled, or just a single one.  And it *only* happens when running in the background.  If I keep the craft in focus and run at high warp, I do not get a warning for the craft in focus, only for the ones that are running in the background.  And the craft in focus starts depleting it's Soil resource as the recyclers process it properly.

I've tried cranking up the buffer size in Dynamic Battery Storage, and the problem still happens.

Setting up a sandbox instance to come up with an easily recreated test that shows the problem, but it looks like the bug is somewhere in the background processing calculations.  Maybe when the random event fires?

I don’t know if dynamic battery storage works in the background. Recently I did two things to help get around the KSP converter timewarp issue. First, I capped resource consumption at the 100x mark, so timewarp past 100x would be treated as 100x. Second, I capped electric charge use to the recycler’s base usage plus crew capacity, so it won’t be consumed faster for more experienced crew members.

For the issue with OmniConverter and Air recycling, I should have a fix later this week.

[King Arthur]

6 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

I don’t know if dynamic battery storage works in the background. Recently I did two things to help get around the KSP converter timewarp issue. First, I capped resource consumption at the 100x mark, so timewarp past 100x would be treated as 100x. Second, I capped electric charge use to the recycler’s base usage plus crew capacity, so it won’t be consumed faster for more experienced crew members.

Judging from how we're (still) talking about this problem, the workarounds you implemented back in v1.21 in July are probably not working as intended.

If this is all too much of a hassle for you to tackle (it's basically a problem with stock KSP after all, not your fault), how about a workaround where the converters simply ignore ElectricCharge costs during timewarp and/or for inactive crafts? It's a very blunt workaround, but quite honestly I doubt most of us play KSP in a way where we need to budget EC by a razor sharp edge anyway; we usually either have way too much or way too little EC. Could even make it a user-toggleable option if some of us don't want it.

[Cavscout74]

Is there any reason the newest version of Snacks wouldn't be compatible with craft built under an older version?  Specifically, I have a couple craft in career with the radial snack tin mounted on them.  I've been using an older version of Snacks (1.15 I think, but I'm away from my game computer at the moment) and yesterday I finally installed the newest version of Snacks.  When I tried to load my career save, it gave a list of several craft it couldn't load due to the radial snack.  I messed with it a little bit, but finally just went back to the older version.

[Angelo Kerman]

35 minutes ago, Cavscout74 said:

Is there any reason the newest version of Snacks wouldn't be compatible with craft built under an older version?  Specifically, I have a couple craft in career with the radial snack tin mounted on them.  I've been using an older version of Snacks (1.15 I think, but I'm away from my game computer at the moment) and yesterday I finally installed the newest version of Snacks.  When I tried to load my career save, it gave a list of several craft it couldn't load due to the radial snack.  I messed with it a little bit, but finally just went back to the older version.

Do you have Restock installed?

2 hours ago, King Arthur said:

Judging from how we're (still) talking about this problem, the workarounds you implemented back in v1.21 in July are probably not working as intended.

If this is all too much of a hassle for you to tackle (it's basically a problem with stock KSP after all, not your fault), how about a workaround where the converters simply ignore ElectricCharge costs during timewarp and/or for inactive crafts? It's a very blunt workaround, but quite honestly I doubt most of us play KSP in a way where we need to budget EC by a razor sharp edge anyway; we usually either have way too much or way too little EC. Could even make it a user-toggleable option if some of us don't want it.

That might work. I still have to fix the issue for craft currently loaded. I can try reducing the timewarp cap to 10x and see if that helps.

[Cavscout74]

35 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Do you have Restock installed

I do

[Angelo Kerman]

14 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

I do

There should be a restock whitelist in the latest Snacks to fix the issue. It prevents Restock from removing the stock monopropellant tank model that’s used by the Snacks radial snack tin. I don’t have the specifics offhand, but check the folders in Snacks.

[Cavscout74]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

There should be a restock whitelist in the latest Snacks to fix the issue. It prevents Restock from removing the stock monopropellant tank model that’s used by the Snacks radial snack tin. I don’t have the specifics offhand, but check the folders in Snacks.

I'll take a look.  It's the latest version that has the issue though.  I'll see if I lost the whitelist somehow

[Angelo Kerman]

See if Snacks 1.23.2 clears up the issues:

- Reduced timewarp ElectricCharge cap to 3x.
- New game settings: you can turn on/off ElectricCharge consumption for Snacks converters during background processing. Default is ON.

[King Arthur]

Many thanks for the new release, will report back on whether the new workarounds help address the EC issue.

[King Arthur]

Alright, here's my findings:

* The timewarp EC cap did not in any way mitigate the "out of EC" problem in timewarp. Just for clarification, this is for inactive crafts. Active crafts have never had "out of EC" problems during timewarp with regards to Snacks converters.

* The toggle to disable EC consumption for converters during background processing resolves the "out of EC" problem in timewarp.

So overall, while the effectiveness of the EC consumption cap is dubious, the other workaround which involves disabling EC consumption outright does indeed work to fix the problem. Many thanks!

[coredumpster]

16 hours ago, King Arthur said:

Alright, here's my findings:

* The timewarp EC cap did not in any way mitigate the "out of EC" problem in timewarp. Just for clarification, this is for inactive crafts. Active crafts have never had "out of EC" problems during timewarp with regards to Snacks converters.

* The toggle to disable EC consumption for converters during background processing resolves the "out of EC" problem in timewarp.

So overall, while the effectiveness of the EC consumption cap is dubious, the other workaround which involves disabling EC consumption outright does indeed work to fix the problem. Many thanks!

I am happy to report that I'm seeing the same.

I will also note that with background EC consumption disabled, I did receive one warning for each background vessel that it does not have enough soil to continue operating the recyclers.  So the systems are now properly recycling in the background at the rate expected.  ( I sized my crew and recycler capacity so that recycler rate would exceed the soil production rate of the crew to maximize my Snacks supply duration ).