[1.9-1.10] Configurable Containers

[Ryusho]

Also the Ckan file may need to be updated for this *and several other mods on ckan actually*

[allista]

5 hours ago, Ryusho said:

Also the Ckan file may need to be updated for this *and several other mods on ckan actually*

What's the problem with CKAN?

[Ryusho]

1 hour ago, allista said:

What's the problem with CKAN?

Because of the 1.2.1 update, since this was made for 1.2, Ckan doesn't know that it would still work with 1.2.1 so it's not allowing it to be downloaded because "It's for an older version of the game" >.< just one of the safety features CKAN has that tends to cause some annoyances.

[Bit Fiddler]

16 hours ago, allista said:

I was able to, but it will take some time to reimplement this inside the Containers.

Correct, a tank needs to be empty in flight; I'll fix that for editor.

The criteria is pretty arbitrary: the volume is < 8m3 = simple tank; otherwise tank manager. I'm not sure if it's even reasonable to make this distinction at all. It just seemed to me that small stock tanks with a single resource should not be allowed the partitioning.

 

ah this explains a lot.  I thought it was me or my install was bad, but I could not figure out why some tanks seem to have the "edit tanks" button and others did not.   Now it is all clear.

 

@Nori I also have this problem as my favorite hull is the MK2...   so I just use the LFO variety all the time so I can partition it.  however sometimes the aesthetics would want one of the others but...  ya I can MM those on my own if I want.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[Murdabenne]

The KSP "point release" (Major.Minor.Point) problem in CKAN can be worked around by making the compatible KSP version number in the form of x.x.99 (1.2.99) in the CKAN metadata.  And if CKAN have not changed the way the code treats that value, "1.2" (instead of 1.2.0) may work for all the patch/point releases off of 1.2 as well (there was a nice CKAN IRC discussion about that back when the whole 1.0/1.0.1/1.0.2 rapid release mess happened)

Edited November 6, 2016 by Murdabenne
clarification

[Nori]

Dry mass for H2 seems quite off. These two tanks are physically the same size but uh more than 20x the dry mass for the jumbo.

[Nori]

There's a bug in the food section of tank types. There isn't a ^ before the = so each setting overwrites the last. While I doubt people will have taclifesupport and USILS, I imagine it is common to have USILS and KolonyTools.

[allista]

12 hours ago, Nori said:

Dry mass for H2 seems quite off. These two tanks are physically the same size but uh more than 20x the dry mass for the jumbo.

Well, this dry mass comes from here (arrow):

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[WarpPlugin|KolonyTools|NearFuturePropulsion|CryoEngines|zzz_CryoTanks|FFT]
{
	name = Cryogenic
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.9
	TankCostPerSurface = 500
	AddMassPerVolume = 0.85 <=
	PossibleResources = 
}

I honestly thought that cryogenic tanks should be heavier than high-pressure gas ones (active cooling, passive cooling, all that stuff), and they have 0.74 t/m3 of additional mass as calculated from  stock parts. The stock parts themselves and more or less all the mods are unbalanced; between them and with mother Nature  The only thing I can say here: let's role-play and say that the CryoTank is so high-tech and specialized that it manages to be so light, while the equipment provided by CContainers to convert a generic volume to cryostorage is heavy. D'you have any better ideas? 

5 hours ago, Nori said:

There's a bug in the food section of tank types. There isn't a ^ before the = so each setting overwrites the last. While I doubt people will have taclifesupport and USILS, I imagine it is common to have USILS and KolonyTools.

Thanks! Fixed.

[TheCardinal]

6 hours ago, Nori said:

There's a bug in the food section of tank types. There isn't a ^ before the = so each setting overwrites the last. While I doubt people will have taclifesupport and USILS, I imagine it is common to have USILS and KolonyTools.

Eerr .... I did................

I've removed USILS, updated Configurable Containers and modified CommonResources. Nevertheless i only get ColonySupplies in the food category (not food in itself) when editing a stock tank. Does it work as designed or is something amiss with my installation?

Edited November 7, 2016 by TheCardinal

[allista]

26 minutes ago, TheCardinal said:

Eerr .... I did................

I've removed USILS, updated Configurable Containers and modified CommonResources. Nevertheless i only get ColonySupplies in the food category (not food in itself) when editing a stock tank. Does it work as designed or is something amiss with my installation?

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport|USILifeSupport] //arb
{
	name = Food
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95 //cargo needs additional fixation and compartmetalization
	TankCostPerSurface = 2 //pressurized
	AddMassPerVolume = 0.003
	PossibleResources = 
}
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Food 0.8;: }
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[USILifeSupport]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Supplies 0.8;: }
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[KolonyTools]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: ColonySupplies 0.8;: }

Needs to be like this.

[TheCardinal]

1 hour ago, allista said:

....

 

Thank you! That (very speedy) solution works like a beaute!

[Nori]

5 hours ago, allista said:

Well, this dry mass comes from here (arrow):

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[WarpPlugin|KolonyTools|NearFuturePropulsion|CryoEngines|zzz_CryoTanks|FFT]
{
	name = Cryogenic
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.9
	TankCostPerSurface = 500
	AddMassPerVolume = 0.85 <=
	PossibleResources = 
}

I honestly thought that cryogenic tanks should be heavier than high-pressure gas ones (active cooling, passive cooling, all that stuff), and they have 0.74 t/m3 of additional mass as calculated from  stock parts. The stock parts themselves and more or less all the mods are unbalanced; between them and with mother Nature  The only thing I can say here: let's role-play and say that the CryoTank is so high-tech and specialized that it manages to be so light, while the equipment provided by CContainers to convert a generic volume to cryostorage is heavy. D'you have any better ideas? 

Thanks! Fixed.

While I agree that balance is all over the place, I think Cryotanks isn't that crazy vs real life. For example, the Space Shuttle's Orange tank massed 26k kg and can hold 730k kg of LH2/LOX. Saturn 5 had 427k kg of 480k kg as fuel for it's second stage. By mass 92.4% was fuel and apparently that's with engines.

I am not finding much LH2 only tank info. The NERVA massed 34k kg empty and 178k kg full. Includes all the heavy engine components though.

NFT seems to allocate mass for LH2 as 63.9% as fuel.

Anyway, if you want CContainers to be less efficient, that'd be fine, but 20x less is quite a bit overkill.

[allista]

2 hours ago, Nori said:

While I agree that balance is all over the place, I think Cryotanks isn't that crazy vs real life. For example, the Space Shuttle's Orange tank massed 26k kg and can hold 730k kg of LH2/LOX. Saturn 5 had 427k kg of 480k kg as fuel for it's second stage. By mass 92.4% was fuel and apparently that's with engines.

I am not finding much LH2 only tank info. The NERVA massed 34k kg empty and 178k kg full. Includes all the heavy engine components though.

NFT seems to allocate mass for LH2 as 63.9% as fuel.

Anyway, if you want CContainers to be less efficient, that'd be fine, but 20x less is quite a bit overkill.

Yea, I know the figures. The difference is, those tanks have no cooling systems, they were not meant to live longer than few tens of minutes from liftoff. When I implement the boiloff I could make two cryogenic tank types: long-term with cooling and short term that will hold on sheer heat capacity of the fuel mass. Yet again, I don't know what's best here. So I'll stick to Cryotanks for now...

[Kolago]

I don't know if you already fix this in dev version: If I revert my ship into VAB or SPH the tank definitions I made are no longer accessible and I can define more tanks and use the full volume again.

The scroll list of defined tanks doesn't work.

[allista]

1 hour ago, Kolago said:

I don't know if you already fix this in dev version: If I revert my ship into VAB or SPH the tank definitions I made are no longer accessible and I can define more tanks and use the full volume again.

The scroll list of defined tanks doesn't work.

Yep, that too is fixed in dev branch. I'm very sorry I'm still not able to publish. Too much work right now 

[Nori]

20 hours ago, allista said:

Yea, I know the figures. The difference is, those tanks have no cooling systems, they were not meant to live longer than few tens of minutes from liftoff. When I implement the boiloff I could make two cryogenic tank types: long-term with cooling and short term that will hold on sheer heat capacity of the fuel mass. Yet again, I don't know what's best here. So I'll stick to Cryotanks for now...

I get that, but my main issue here is that they mass over 20x. I can't imagine actual refrigeration adding more than maybe double.

On line 86 of tanktypes.cfg I believe you are missing a semi-colon after the RefinedExotics listing. I think that's why Lithium doesn't show up for me.

[Kolago]

Take a look on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_external_tank

This is a good example of an insulated real world tank.

SLWT Specifications

• Length: 153.8 ft (46.9 m)
• Diameter: 27.6 ft (8.4 m)
• Empty Weight: 58,500 lb (26,500 kg)
• Gross Liftoff Weight: 1,680,000 lb (760,000 kg)

[Nori]

Sooo, any chance of getting the ability to dump the resources in a tank while switching in flight?

[Bit Fiddler]

there is a fuel dump mod that has a spout you attach to a tank then it dumps it in a nice shader vapor cloud or fire ball depending on if you dump to an engines heated area or not.  no idea if it still works with 1.2.1 but could try.  also smart parts has a fuel dump part to dump tank contents.  and other mods have added the "jettison tank contents" right click action to other types of tanks.  so there are many options for this already, but ya to make it simple and all in one mod might not be a bad idea.

 

 

[allista]

5 hours ago, Nori said:

Sooo, any chance of getting the ability to dump the resources in a tank while switching in flight?

3 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

there is a fuel dump mod that has a spout you attach to a tank then it dumps it in a nice shader vapor cloud or fire ball depending on if you dump to an engines heated area or not.  no idea if it still works with 1.2.1 but could try.  also smart parts has a fuel dump part to dump tank contents.  and other mods have added the "jettison tank contents" right click action to other types of tanks.  so there are many options for this already, but ya to make it simple and all in one mod might not be a bad idea.

There's the stock MODULE for this -- ModuleFuelJettison. It does not require any configuration and adds the abovementioned right-click action to the part menu. So there's no need to reimplement it in CContainers; and the decision about adding it to a particular tank I'll leave to the part/patch makers (Squad, for instance, decided to omit it from fuel tanks).

[Nori]

8 hours ago, allista said:

There's the stock MODULE for this -- ModuleFuelJettison. It does not require any configuration and adds the abovementioned right-click action to the part menu. So there's no need to reimplement it in CContainers; and the decision about adding it to a particular tank I'll leave to the part/patch makers (Squad, for instance, decided to omit it from fuel tanks).

Oh cool. Didn't know that they added that. 

[GantradiesDracos]

hey guys. been meaning to ask, if there are no known compatibility issues with the latest version of KSP, would it be possible to update the listing for config containers/ the core version on ckan?

i know how to do a manual install, im just having some odd issues (claims that somethings already been claimed by another mod/file, and a more generic/unhelpful error message if the file in question is removed. for the record, im maintaining a small-ish modpacky thingy that several other friends use in DMP, which is why its a minor pain >.> guys keep asking if/when it'll be updatable). not a really high priority or anything, would just make untangling whatever's broken a little easier given my relative lack of in-depth knowledge for sorting this sort of thing out.

 

*edit* i was getting confused why i was getting the message (as it wasn't listed as required/a dependency in any of my installed mods) till i double-checked the thread title and realised its allready included in AT utills, which for some reason is listed as downloadable in ckan despite not supporting the latest ksp version >.>

Edited November 12, 2016 by GantradiesDracos

[allista]

Configurable Containers v2.3.1 for KSP 1.2.1 (2016.11.13)

ChangeLog:

Spoiler

• Corrected Cryogenic tank type parameters.
• Fixed Food tank type.
• In Editor automatically removing current resource when trying to switch it or the tank type.
• Fixed Soil TANKTYPE definition.
• Fixed installation directive in CC-Core.netkan
• Fixed ProceduralParts bug and return to VAB bug.

Edited November 13, 2016 by allista

[Kolago]

Drop down list for the Tank Types is still not scrolling down.

[Nori]

9 hours ago, allista said:

Configurable Containers v2.3.1 for KSP 1.2.1 (2016.11.13)

ChangeLog:

  Hide contents

• Corrected Cryogenic tank type parameters.
• Fixed Food tank type.
• In Editor automatically removing current resource when trying to switch it or the tank type.
• Fixed Soil TANKTYPE definition.
• Fixed installation directive in CC-Core.netkan
• Fixed ProceduralParts bug and return to VAB bug.

Excellent. Thanks!