[1.9-1.10] Configurable Containers

[Acvila]

2 minutes ago, allista said:

I'm sorry, but do you actually use IFS alongside CC? Or are you just comparing the two? Because the former is highly unrecommended and may cause unexpected results, as both mods patch same parts and are in conflict over part's mass/cost/resources.

As for SSTU and other mods that provide tanks for various resources, understand this: in KSP there's no such thing as resource density. The only "density" we have is tons-per-unit, but units are dimensionless. There's also no notion of volume. Parts are just parts, regardless of actual 3D model used. So a mod that makes tanks is free to put as much of any resource into a part as it likes, and to make that part as light or as heavy as its left leg wants. I cannot tell you why SSTU decided to make its tanks so light and not to consider boil-off; but I cannot agree with that decision as highly unrealistic one.

My Cryogenic tanks add 0.01t per m3 of additional insulation to a tank to prevent rapid boil-off. I calculate boil-off rate from thermodynamics, and that insulation is actually included into equations. They're perfectly usable for space-flight where external temperature is low enough.

CryoCooling tanks, on the other hand, are indeed not intended for ships because the cryo-cooling machinery is heavy.

You mean to pretend that a container is built from different materials depending on the content? No, that's not possible: CC does not modify parts (their hulls, dry weight, models); it only adds tanks inside part's volume, including any additional insulation, structure or machinery.

yes, i use them all... there is the problem. sstu has both version of tanks cryo and cryocooling and has mass difference between them. i use you tanks for mining, fewer containers... best mod for that!

3 minutes ago, allista said:

Reuploaded corrected zip file to SpaceDock:

https://spacedock.info/mod/1002/Configurable Containers/download/2.4.1

did you added Lqd Hydrogen?

[allista]

14 minutes ago, Acvila said:

did you added Lqd Hydrogen?

Yep.

[Gordon Dry]

So how to tamper with the GameData\ConfigurableContainers\Parts\ProceduralParts.cfg for now?

Remove/rename it? Comment out something inside of it?

[allista]

4 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

So how to tamper with the GameData\ConfigurableContainers\Parts\ProceduralParts.cfg for now?

Remove/rename it? Comment out something inside of it?

If you want to use PP as is, without CC in it, just remove the file.

[Bit Fiddler]

I know this is a bit off topic...  but the photo for your avatar; who is this?  is this a picture of you?

just asking because of the hat and the fact you are German yes?  and if so do you watch a German TV show (I do not know the name but there is an American guy named David that is a Cowboy)?

[allista]

2 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

I know this is a bit off topic...  but the photo for your avatar; who is this?  is this a picture of you?

just asking because of the hat and the fact you are German yes?  and if so do you watch a German TV show (I do not know the name but there is an American guy named David that is a Cowboy)?

Yes, that's my photo (somewhat old though), but I'm no German and I don't watch TV; none at all 

[Bit Fiddler]

Ah, my mistake.  I thought you were German...  any way never mind then.  I was going to ask about that show and if it was any good, as the American guy David is my mother's brother.  So was just curious about what the show was like.

[Gordon Dry]

Together with MFT it worked somehow well (IMHO it seems so).

But with newly relesed RF (instead of MFT) I have issues with some parts.

When I use the RF button to "Remove resources" it seems they're gone in the first place, I add RF resources then, but when reverting to VAB from launchpad  when I check that part I still see the CC resources added again.

So I have to go inside the CC UI and remove the old tank setup in there.

But why are both mods active, aren't they mutually exclusive?

[Gordon Dry]

How about this?

 

[adsii1970]

How do I restore the startup screen? Right now, all three Kermen have storage container back packs...

[Aelfhe1m]

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

How do I restore the startup screen? Right now, all three Kermen have storage container back packs...

That's KIS:

 

[allista]

On 8/1/2017 at 4:18 PM, Gordon Dry said:

Together with MFT it worked somehow well (IMHO it seems so).

But with newly relesed RF (instead of MFT) I have issues with some parts.

When I use the RF button to "Remove resources" it seems they're gone in the first place, I add RF resources then, but when reverting to VAB from launchpad  when I check that part I still see the CC resources added again.

So I have to go inside the CC UI and remove the old tank setup in there.

But why are both mods active, aren't they mutually exclusive?

They are mutually exclusive, so you just don't install both of them at the same time. If you're using CKAN, it won't happen; if you're installing manually, it's your responsibility to not end up with two mods that do the same thing and conflict. As for the mentioned "convention"  -- it is not so. A convention is something that people discussed and agreed upon. No one discussed this with me. So I'm not including patches that will effectively render my mod inactive in favor of another mod. The user has the privilege to choose between them. 

[Gordon Dry]

The thing is that I just can't choose between CC and RF because I need both, CC as dependency for GC and all your other mods and RF for my liking of having not only stock fuels.

But I'm aware of checking if there is a CC button inside the context menu of a new added part...

[allista]

3 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

The thing is that I just can't choose between CC and RF because I need both, CC as dependency for GC and all your other mods and RF for my liking of having not only stock fuels.

But I'm aware of checking if there is a CC button inside the context menu of a new added part...

Yep, that's a problem. And i don't know how to solve it properly. CC allows me to use any resources in CRP in my mods without the need to bloat the game with even-more-poorly-modeled recourse tanks. But both RF/MFT and IFS also modify stock tanks, hence the conflict.

Most of CC patches check for all known conflicting mods and do not install CC modules if they're found. But MM patch ordering mechanism is not sophisticated enough to resolve circular dependencies because of the FINAL stanza which most of these mods use.

The only thing you, as a user, can do, is to remove CC patches to only have CC functionality in dedicated parts from my mods.

[LatiMacciato]

I'm trying to trace down Snacks and it's values to have that as indice for implentation in containers.

so far the resource definition is Snack and Soil (waste which is deactivateable):
density = 0.001, unitCost = .5, volume = 1 (I assume it is 1u/L too but I'm not sure tho)
source

Snacks also adds 50 Snack capacity per Kerbal for every crewable part (yes even the Spaceport :D), but no Soil

Now  .. how to determine if Soil is present and activated through Snacks so CC can show-off in any configurable container? (maybe I'm thinking too far .. possibly its just ok to add Soil likewise)

Some Snack-containers have the option to have Snacks and Soil  in a 1:1 relationship.

Possibly its good to have 3 options on a Snacks category, like Snacks (10u/10L), Soil (10u/10L), or Sacks & Soil (5u/5L).

I hope this makes sense

EDIT:
Ok, I cannot remember when I restarted KSP the last time so often just to test "some" values

there are 2 ways to properly implent Snacks and Soil

first idea --> give SnackLS an own category (the easy way)

Spoiler

TankConfigs.cfg

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[Snacks] 
{
	name = SnacksLS
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95
	TankCostPerSurface = 1 // might need more testing (and boosters)
	AddMassPerVolume = 0.003
	PossibleResources = Snacks 1; Soil 1;
}

TankTypes.cfg

TANKCONF:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	name = Snacks and Soil
	TANK
	{
		TankType = SnacksLS
		CurrentResource = Snacks
		InitialAmount = 1
		Volume = 50
	}
	TANK
	{
		TankType = SnacksLS
		CurrentResource = Soil
		InitialAmount = 0
		Volume = 50
	}
}

 

second idea --> give Snacks and Soil a place to be without an own category (the more appropiate, proper, but still fitting-the-idea-of-this-mod-way)

Spoiler

 

TankConfigs.cfg
 

TANKTYPE
{
	name = Soil
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 1
	TankCostPerSurface = 1
	PossibleResources = Ore 0.185; //cfd
}
@TANKTYPE[Soil]:NEEDS[KolonyTools] //cfd
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Dirt 1; Mulch 1; Fertilizer 1; ExoticMinerals 1; MetallicOre 1; Substrate 1; Minerals 1; Polymers 1; Hydrates 1; Gypsum 1; Silicates 1; Silicon 1; Organics 1; RefinedExotics  1;: }
@TANKTYPE[Soil]:NEEDS[WarpPlugin]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Alumina 1;: } //cfd
@TANKTYPE[Soil]:NEEDS[Launchpad]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: MetalOre 0.7;: } //cfd
// @TANKTYPE[Soil]:NEEDS[Snacks]
// { @PossibleResources ^= :$: Soil 1;: }

// unsure how to implent the UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95 Soil has same values as Snacks
TANKTYPE:NEEDS[Snacks] 
{
	name = Soil
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95 // has same values as Snacks - arb
	PossibleResources = Soil 1;
}

-snip-

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport|USILifeSupport|Snacks] //arb
{
	name = Food
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95 //cargo needs additional fixation and compartmetalization
	TankCostPerSurface = 2 //pressurized
	AddMassPerVolume = 0.003
	PossibleResources = 
}
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Food 0.8;: }
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[USILifeSupport]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Supplies 0.8;: }
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[KolonyTools]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: ColonySupplies 0.8;: }
@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[Snacks] // SnacksLS - arb
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Snacks 1;: }

TankTypes.cfg
 

TANKCONF:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	name = Snacks and Soil
	TANK
	{
		TankType = Food
		CurrentResource = Snacks
		InitialAmount = 1
		Volume = 50
	}
	TANK
	{
		TankType = Soil
		CurrentResource = Soil
		InitialAmount = 0
		Volume = 50
	}
}

 

I personally prefer the first method because it doesn't interfer with any other LS tho (plus it's shorter code).
Sorry for stealing off your work @allista, but I just wanna help improving

Regards

Edited August 30, 2017 by LatiMacciato

[allista]

@LatiMacciato, could you elaborate on that whole thing: what are you trying to achieve in the end? And what mod uses snacks+soil combination? 

Edit: oh, didn't see your edits. Processing...

Edited August 31, 2017 by allista

[LatiMacciato]

ok I'm sorry again, I really tend to edit my posts to prevent double-posts/spam.

the mod I spoke about --> Snacks! Continued v1.8.0 - Friendly, Simplified Life Support

If we find a solution how Soil can get the attribute/value UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95 inside the Soil Category then I'd say I'm fine with the second way I was showing

As far I seen Snacks and Soil are equally the same stats, weight, density .. I could be wrong tho.
Means putting them in a seperate category (the first/easy way) might just be a solution for implention for now unless we figure how to set this UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95 as special attibute for it unlike the other soil which is at 1.

Hope it does make sense anyhow.

Regards

EDIT:
https://github.com/allista/ConfigurableContainers/issues/17
There we go, hope that works too

Edited August 31, 2017 by LatiMacciato

[9bananas]

okay, so i've hit a bit of a snare trying to figure out the volume ratio of the LH2/LOX fule mixture for the cryogenic engines engines mod...the tanks that come with the mod have a 1(LOX):15(LH2) unit ratio.

 i've been trying to reconfigure a tank (from talisar's spherical and toroidal tanks mod), SP-L-1, to hold LH2/LOX using your fantastic mod.

 

now it's easy to figure out the unit ratio (1:15) by looking at the tanks provided by cryogenic engines, but i've found that this doesn't correspond at all to the volume ratio...which makes it reeeaaallly hard to configure a custom tank.

through trial and error i came up with an absurdly hard to achieve 1:1.3651683 ratio (--> this is the point at which the game displays a nice zero for the first decimal place (zeros are nice, i like zeros) of the LH2 tank in reference to a 100m³ LOX tank, e.g. a 1:15 unit ratio[<- all within the SP-L-1 fuel tank])

so what i have now is a fuel tank in following configuration: ~266.6m³ divided into 100m³ LOX and 136.51683m³ LH2...kinda suboptimal...

 

now i realise this might be because real world tank volume for LH2 might be somewhere in that area (haven't looked into that), but it's making the tanks of the cryogenic engines mod a must have on a spacecraft that uses that mods engines...which is...limiting.

see, now i have all these great tanks i can set up with your great mod, but can't use cryogenic engines with them, because the fuel ratio is really hard to achieve using the volume ratio...but it'd super easy using the unit ratio!

 

soo...i was wondering: could we possibly get a third option for the little button that lets us switch between volume and percentage, which allows for units? (maybe an extra one to switch between volume and unit mode, to allow use of the amount and percentage functions?)

even if that means i'll waste some volume, it'd be really handy to have, not just for cryogenic engines, but in general! (well...i imagine at least)

 

don't get me wrong, i absolutely love the mod, use it a lot! it's pretty much a must have for me to play the game! this stuff would just be super handy

thanks for all of your great mods, btw! using ground construction and cc atm, both are awesome!

[Shaman]

Great Mod!

I don't see Chemicals (USI Resource) in any of the available configurations. Am I missing something?

 

[panarchist]

On 8/28/2017 at 12:46 PM, allista said:

They are mutually exclusive, so you just don't install both of them at the same time. If you're using CKAN, it won't happen; if you're installing manually, it's your responsibility to not end up with two mods that do the same thing and conflict. As for the mentioned "convention"  -- it is not so. A convention is something that people discussed and agreed upon. No one discussed this with me. So I'm not including patches that will effectively render my mod inactive in favor of another mod. The user has the privilege to choose between them. 

Does CC also conflict with FSfuelSwitch? I'm asking because RoverDude uses and distributes Firespitter and CC is (or can be) used in MKS and other USI mods.

[Kerbinidiel]

hi, awesome mod, very usefull!

is possible to use it with the "solaris Hypernautics" fuel tanks?

in particular, i love the 2 spherical fuel tanks of that mod, but they are only a "dust containers" and it will be awesome to be able to use with other thinks, like fuel or water etc...

i dont know how your mod works and if it need only a little config file or a long work of coding to use it with the solaris hipernautics...

[LatiMacciato]

found a way to successfully implent Snacks! see PR #19

[Esendis]

On 10/5/2017 at 10:15 PM, Shaman said:

Great Mod!

I don't see Chemicals (USI Resource) in any of the available configurations. Am I missing something?

 

Same here. Will try to add it to the Tank Types.cfg.

Does it need KolonyTools or something from USI?

[allista]

On 10/6/2017 at 12:44 AM, panarchist said:

Does CC also conflict with FSfuelSwitch? I'm asking because RoverDude uses and distributes Firespitter and CC is (or can be) used in MKS and other USI mods.

It does not conflict with FS or any other .dll that allows to manage part resources. It does conflict, however, with mods that patch stock fuel tanks, because CC also patches them. So when you use CC and GS .dlls to make your own parts work, it's alright. Only the MM patches cause conflicts.

 

On 10/7/2017 at 11:19 AM, LatiMacciato said:

found a way to successfully implent Snacks! see PR #19

I object against the following:

	@UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95
	@TankCostPerSurface = 2

The "Soil" tank stores non-aggressive solid resources that do not require any special treatment. If Snaks implies that "Soil" is some kind of organic waste, it's better to place it into the "Waste" tank type:

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]
{
	name = Waste
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 1
	TankCostPerSurface = 2 //pressurized
	PossibleResources = Waste 1.33; WasteWater 0.995; //1t/m3
}

 

[allista]

On 10/8/2017 at 3:50 PM, Esendis said:

Same here. Will try to add it to the Tank Types.cfg.

Does it need KolonyTools or something from USI?

@Shaman, to what tank type do you suggest to add it?

EDIT: currently only the LiquidChemicals seems appropriate, but it is used mainly for fuels.

Edited October 21, 2017 by allista