The James Webb Space Telescope and stuff

[DAL59]

On 6/28/2018 at 1:55 PM, Bill Phil said:

Also, some may consider the ISS (used to be Space Station Freedom) to be much more bloated and much more delayed...

The ISS isn't a one part thing though. It has functionality before completion though.  

They built the Apollo rocket, lander, and capsule in a decade.  This is a waste of money, especially because the BFR could launch an unfolded version.  

[Wjolcz]

32 minutes ago, DAL59 said:

They built the Apollo rocket, lander, and capsule in a decade.  This is a waste of money, especially because the BFR could launch an unfolded version.  

We all know why this won't happen tho. Not soon, at least. BFR needs to fly first. They would never spend money on a telescope that can be launched by one rocket that has yet to fly. But then there's the SLS. We have another thread to complain about that one though.

That being said, I think that once BFR is flying we will see crazy big and powerful things (telescopes included) being launched into space. If BFR ever flies I'm sure a JWST's successor will fly on it. It will be bigger, less complicated and cheaper.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Wjolcz

[magnemoe]

22 hours ago, Wjolcz said:

We all know why this won't happen tho. Not soon, at least. BFR needs to fly first. They would never spend money on a telescope that can be launched by one rocket that has yet to fly. But then there's the SLS. We have another thread to complain about that one though.

That being said, I think that once BFR is flying we will see crazy big and powerful things (telescopes included) being launched into space. If BFR ever flies I'm sure a JWST's successor will fly on it. It will be bigger, less complicated and cheaper.

This, note that lots of research went into the deveoplemnt of the JWST mirror segments, an no nobody will make larger single dish mirrors outside of black swan like nanoteck, even then it doubtful as current tech scale well from 1 meter up to 40 in designs. 
Yes I obviously want the terrestrial planet mapper (the starship targeting scope)
But its just about scaling up an bit

 

[tater]

LOL

 

[Racescort666]

On 6/29/2018 at 2:58 PM, Wjolcz said:

That being said, I think that once BFR is flying we will see crazy big and powerful things (telescopes included) being launched into space. If BFR ever flies I'm sure a JWST's successor will fly on it. It will be bigger, less complicated and cheaper.

Even New Glenn to some degree will have this effect. 7m payload fairing on what's supposed to be a fairly cost effective rocket and it's slated to fly 2020 which really isn't that far away.

[_Augustus_]

38 minutes ago, tater said:

LOL

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it flies in late 2026........

[Gargamel]

Came back here just to post that XKCD post.... guess I need to follow him on twitter. 

[Mitchz95]

On 6/28/2018 at 10:21 AM, tater said:

during an acoustics test, which examines whether hardware can survive the loud sounds of launch, the fasteners designed to hold the sun shield together came loose. The incident scattered 70 bolts, and engineers scrambled to find them. They’re still looking for a few. “We’re really close to finding every one of the pieces,” Zerbuchen said.

This sounds like it was ripped from the description of a KSP rocket part.

[DAL59]

This was supposed to launch in 2007 when it was proposed in 1997.  It is now 2.5 times longer than it should be.  SpaceX went from nothing to the Falcon Heavy in the time it took to build this.  

[YNM]

7 hours ago, DAL59 said:

This was supposed to launch in 2007 when it was proposed in 1997.  It is now 2.5 times longer than it should be.  SpaceX went from nothing to the Falcon Heavy in the time it took to build this.  

It took them from 1970 (very late 1960s in fact) to 1990 to realize Hubble Space Telescope. And that's probably thanks in no small part to NRO's reconnaissance platforms.

For a one-off that has quite the added complications, it looks good.

Edited July 9, 2018 by YNM

[Wjolcz]

3 hours ago, DAL59 said:

This was supposed to launch in 2007 when it was proposed in 1997.  It is now 2.5 times longer than it should be.  SpaceX went from nothing to the Falcon Heavy in the time it took to build this.  

Apples and oranges. SpaceX uses rocket technology that has been around since WWII (though to be fair goddard used the same fuel in his first tests). The only difference is they land their rockets because nobody cared until they did.

Now JWST is a whole lot different. It's a telescope, not a rocket. It's the first space telescope of this kind, it's meant to go for the Lagrange point, it's got crazy sophisticated tech that has to work the first time they try to use it.

So saying that SpaceX is doing better than NASA because JWST is taking so long is like saying that Wirght Flyer sucked because trains were first, or something.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Wjolcz

[tater]

 

[Scotius]

Oh, goodie - another half of a billion of dollars sunk. Are they building a space telescope or a money-fueled power plant? Managers of this project should be fired long ago.

[Wjolcz]

Sure, building this thing is hard. But at this point I'm really wondering if BFR won't launch a bigger telescope with one big solid mirror not long after JWST is operational.

I don't hate JWST. It's just that perhaps building a bigger rocket and then launching a simpler telescope of the same size would be simpler, faster and a lot cheaper.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Wjolcz

[tater]

At this point they could have just piled $1 bills under it, then put a PAM on it to get to orbit (1 B$ in ones is 109km high, so they could use a few stacks).

[Racescort666]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:39 AM, Scotius said:

Managers of this project Northrup Grumman should be fired long ago.

FIFY

[tater]

JWST hearing, live:

 

Ouch (so far).

 

[tater]

 

[Hannu2]

On 7/23/2018 at 5:54 PM, Wjolcz said:

Sure, building this thing is hard. But at this point I'm really wondering if BFR won't launch a bigger telescope with one big solid mirror not long after JWST is operational.

I don't hate JWST. It's just that perhaps building a bigger rocket and then launching a simpler telescope of the same size would be simpler, faster and a lot cheaper.

Someone have to get political decision and funds, then plan and build a new telescope before BFR in needed. As we know from history, such project takes about 2 decades. Even it can probably be simpler, because more capable rocket, 1 decade is in any case completely unrealistic optimism in large space telescope project. JWST can probably have several delays and make whole career before successor is ready to begin its work.

[tater]

The sun shield would have to be deployed regardless of launch vehicle. Bigger vehicle could make it simpler, I suppose.

It might be better to assemble this on orbit, so that any failures of assembly can be dealt with before moving to target orbit.

[Racescort666]

O_o this is basic engineering practice. Didn't specify the torque? That's the first question my techs ask when we have them bolt stuff together along with "do we use new fasteners or reuse the old ones?" (The answer is: use new ones, btw.) Or at the very least use one of these: 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Racescort666

[Opus_723]

I'm disappointed in the delays as well, but I wish people would stop comparing modern projects with the Apollo program. NASA used to have ten times the budget they have now, and most of it devoted to one project, as opposed to dozens. It's a whole new reality now.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Opus_723

[Kilmeister]

Hearing Starts at 16:30s

 

[tater]

 

(she later corrects the tweet to make him CEO of Northrop Grumman)

[Racescort666]

They are tearing NG apart. Wow. Reading through Jeff Foust's feed is brutal.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Racescort666