Fire-and-forget tourists to LKO and back

[tseitsei89]

7 minutes ago, rkarmark said:

How to land on kerbin:

Kerbal head bounce

If a kerbal lands on his head sometines he survaives.  The same goes for 1.25meter cargo bay doors they also tend to bounce sometimes

How do you get the kerbal to EVA and fall on his/her head if you can't give any user input after the launch?

[rkarmark]

 

11 minutes ago, tseitsei89 said:

How do you get the kerbal to EVA and fall on his/her head if you can't give any user input after the launch?

The kerbal is in a command chair where the same thing happens and just quicksave and reload a few times to make the kerbal hit with his head

Edited December 8, 2016 by rkarmark

[tseitsei89]

13 minutes ago, rkarmark said:

 

The kerbal is in a command chair where the same thing happens and just quicksave and reload a few times to make the kerbal hit with his head

Yeah... I doubt that the kerbal would survive if it crashes the ground head first and then a spacecraft weighing several tons crashes right on top of him

[icantmakemodels]

After reading your comments, I've updated the OP. Stock now allows informational mods such as KER. I've also added a modded category.

[Tex_NL]

14 minutes ago, icantmakemodels said:

After reading your comments, I've updated the OP. Stock now allows informational mods such as KER. I've also added a modded category.

Allowing KER doesn't change a thing. All KER does is feed the player information. And since the player is not allowed to input any control the information is useless.
The only useful information KER could offer are TWR and dV readouts in the VAB but those can also be calculated manually.

[icantmakemodels]

I'm trying to make your life easier, why are you complaining? It's so you can take a screen to show that you're in orbit. And yes, for DV and TWR in the VAB.

Edited December 8, 2016 by icantmakemodels

[tseitsei89]

17 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

Allowing KER doesn't change a thing. All KER does is feed the player information. And since the player is not allowed to input any control the information is useless.
The only useful information KER could offer are TWR and dV readouts in the VAB but those can also be calculated manually.

Would you please like to answer the question I asked from you in my previous post?

[Palaceviking]

4 hours ago, Tex_NL said:

This is really stretching the realm of possibilities. I agree in theory it IS possible but the margin of error are absolutely minimal.

You forgot that engines produce electricity. As long as the regular launch engine is lit, the descent ion engine is too.

   

[Dunbaratu]

5 hours ago, Tex_NL said:

You forgot that engines produce electricity. As long as the regular launch engine is lit, the descent ion engine is too.

Solid boosters don't produce electricity.  And since we can't give input, they aren't that different from liquids - the only input you can give is to adjust the thrust limiter and fuel amount before launch and leave it fixed that way.

[Dunbaratu]

3 hours ago, icantmakemodels said:

I'm trying to make your life easier, why are you complaining? It's so you can take a screen to show that you're in orbit. And yes, for DV and TWR in the VAB.

The reason it makes no difference is that if you only use it in the VAB, you could already have used KER anyway and nobody would ever know.  Once you used KER to get the rocket design you want, load that craft into a game where KER is missing.  There's no part you have to put on your craft to get this in-the-VAB information from KER so the resulting craft is one you can use in stock just fine.

 

The biggest problem with this challenge as I see it is that it's not the same challenge at different difficulty levels, as it's being claimed to be.  It's two different ones, one that's nearly impossible or possibly even entirely impossible, and one that's just using a mod in exactly the way it was designed to be used, perfectly normally, where plenty of examples can already be found online that do the job.  They're not really the same task at two difficulty levels.  They're just entirely unrelated tasks.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Steven Mading

[EliteGuy3]

11 hours ago, tseitsei89 said:

what do you think will happen if I put the chutes to deploy on first stage (the only place where I could possibly deploy them in this challenge)? That's right they immediately deploy on launch since we are on safe speed and altitude...

I didn't think of that...

[Ultimate Steve]

I remember a challenge like this from a while ago. The secret if you need to ignite your lift, orbit, and de-orbit engines at launch but you need to set up the fuel flow so that some engines burn out before the others.

[Eidahlil]

It's not quite reusable yet, but I'm getting there.

I'm using a "guidance satellite" (just an empty soda can) in Kerbistationary equatorial orbit, and setting SAS to point at target.

The kerbals in the cockpit had to take control by the end, because the drone core ran out of electricity. Let's call it a "proof of concept", because I have been looking at it going up and down for too long to redo it with more batteries.

The craft file: http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Autoplane-3

Yes, I failed my reading comprehension, and reached a periapsis of only 74.something km, instead of the required 75km. Sorry.

[tseitsei89]

5 hours ago, Eidahlil said:

It's not quite reusable yet, but I'm getting there.

I'm using a "guidance satellite" (just an empty soda can) in Kerbistationary equatorial orbit, and setting SAS to point at target.

The kerbals in the cockpit had to take control by the end, because the drone core ran out of electricity. Let's call it a "proof of concept", because I have been looking at it going up and down for too long to redo it with more batteries.

The craft file: http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Autoplane-3

Yes, I failed my reading comprehension, and reached a periapsis of only 74.something km, instead of the required 75km. Sorry.

Awesome! Well done. And the way you did it (guiding satellite) is just pure genious...

[swjr-swis]

14 hours ago, Eidahlil said:

I'm using a "guidance satellite" (just an empty soda can) in Kerbistationary equatorial orbit, and setting SAS to point at target.

I like it.

Except it still requires at least one control input after leaving the pad: changing SAS to follow target (which can only be done once the craft has lifted off and velocity is >1.0m/s).

Edited December 9, 2016 by swjr-swis
incorrect information is incorrect

[sevenperforce]

Ooh, thought of a potentially simple(ish) way to do this.

What about using an asymmetric "flying saucer" ship with vertically-oriented airbreathing engines in the center, horizontally-oriented rocket engines on one side with poor SL Isp and high vacuum Isp, and an opposite-facing ion engine on the other side? The airbreathing engines would lift the craft straight up, with the effective thrust of the rocket engines being fairly low at the start but increasing as the craft gained altitude. Fuel would be routed so that all but one of the airbreathing engines would flameout due to fuel loss in the upper atmosphere as the rocket engines pushed it into orbit.

Once the rocket engines flame out, the ion engine would burn retrograde until orbit decayed. On re-entry, the whole craft would passively re-orient and the airbreathing engine would automatically come back on since it had oxygen again, gaining thrust as it descended, and coming to a survivable terminal velocity at sea level.

[Eidahlil]

2 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Except it still requires at least one control input after leaving the pad: changing SAS to follow target (which can only be done once the craft has lifted off and velocity is >1.0m/s).

Actually, you can set SAS to anything except prograde/retrograde while stationary (because you do not have a prograde/retrograde while stationary). While in surface mode radial out/in will point top/down respectively. Normal will point horizontally north/south. Target will point at target as expected.

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

asymmetric "flying saucer" ship with vertically-oriented airbreathing engines in the center, horizontally-oriented rocket engines on one side

I tried something similar with side rapiers set to automatic switching and bottom rapiers set to manual (aka not switching). The main problem ended up being the side engines requiring much more dV (almost 2km/s) than I could squeeze into a single stage while also carrying enough air-breathing equipment. It might be doable with nukes, or some creative explosive decoupling, though. Or maybe I just approached the design wrong.

Spoiler

 

[ManEatingApe]

Here's one I made earlier that was inspired by this challenge.

• Pure Stock
• Solid fuel only
• Probe core left behind on launch clamp. No other command pods, SAS, RCS, reaction wheels or movable aerodynamic surfaces (not that it matters without control)
• PE of ~115kkm
• 2nd stage designed like Sycamore seed to autorotate during descent to slow speed to survivable level.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by ManEatingApe

[MarvinKitFox]

On 2016/12/26 at 8:25 PM, ManEatingApe said:

Here's one I made earlier .......

 

Make full nonpilot tourist orbital recovery tourbus.... check

Walk on water.... check

Please inform us if you manage one more miracle, so that you can get your complimentary "Dummies guide to Divinity" booklet asap.

[icantmakemodels]

@ManEatingApe Wow. Can you provide a craft file so that I can test it?

 

[ManEatingApe]

4 hours ago, icantmakemodels said:

Can you provide a craft file so that I can test it?

 

No problem, craft file link here.

Make sure to let it settle for few seconds before hitting the space bar, as it's very sensitive to the initial angle.

[icantmakemodels]

Alright, thanks. I won't get to it today, (homework) but more than likley tomorrow.

[Benjamin Kerman]

On 12/7/2016 at 9:16 PM, EliteGuy3 said:

I believe a stock "fire and forget" rocket has never been attempted. EVER. This challenge will surely be interesting.

Creating a vessel which only needs 1 push of the spacebar is rather possible. RAPIERS, heavy rocket with gravity turning, all possible! Returning can be done through a small engine pointing retrograde, with a heat shield behind it.

Firstly, update 1.2 has allowed parachutes to deploy automatically, without control, without the "when safe" mode.

Secondly, the drag of the heat shield shouldn't make it problematic to go to orbit. I've tried it before, and so far it controls easily and just seems like a flat surface. I could do a test, @tseitsei89, if you still feel unconfident about drag?

Yes, 1.2 has added the option for parachutes to only deploy when safe, but it is safe in the lower atmosphere right after launch... The only thing I can see doing is have a big heat shield like you said, and the have several of those 80 m/s plus survivable parts like the I-beams in a roll cage.