Development Update for Consoles!

[Ineedaweapon]

In the weekly:

Quote

Console testing is again very much in our purview, so together with the external test team, intensive testing has produced a wealth of reports and feedback for the developers. It is difficult to divulge just how far along the process is, but for those of you that are concerned, we can say that things are looking good. We are aware that you are keen to see the results, and we’re excited about the progress. Please bear with us while we endeavor to polish and resolve the obscure edge cases which on consoles can be so unforgiving and equally difficult to patch post release.

Would it be too optimistic to expect it in another few weeks at the most?  I'll cross my fingers but I won't hold my breath.

 

[SleepyInsomniac]

4 hours ago, Ineedaweapon said:

In the weekly:

Would it be too optimistic to expect it in another few weeks at the most?  I'll cross my fingers but I won't hold my breath.

 

I would say way too optimistic. I'm pretty sure we are still several months away from getting anything.

[LegendaryAce]

4 hours ago, Ineedaweapon said:

Please bear with us while we endeavor to polish and resolve the obscure edge cases which on consoles can be so unforgiving and equally difficult to patch post release.

Sounds like Squad is saying that the Consoles are at fault for having a rigorous Cert process. Though I'm not really surprised...

Though maybe it's a message to get it right the first time.

Edited July 15, 2017 by LegendaryAce

[Benjamin Kerman]

20 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

Sounds like Squad is saying that the Consoles are at fault for having a rigorous Cert process. Though I'm not really surprised...

Though maybe it's a message to get it right the first time.

I would say that SQUAD is working to make sure that they dont have to push a patch out. 

[LegendaryAce]

19 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

I would say that SQUAD is working to make sure that they dont have to push a patch out. 

You mean Blitworks? Squad conveniently outsourced the job to FTE and Blitworks to absolve themselves of any blame. If they really wanted a console fix, they could do it themselves.

[SleepyInsomniac]

2 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

You mean Blitworks? Squad conveniently outsourced the job to FTE and Blitworks to absolve themselves of any blame. If they really wanted a console fix, they could do it themselves.

Hopefully they outsourced the QA process as well.

[LegendaryAce]

7 minutes ago, SleepyInsomniac said:

Hopefully they outsourced the QA process as well.

I don't know whether to agree or disagree!

[scottadges]

2 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

You mean Blitworks? Squad conveniently outsourced the job to FTE and Blitworks to absolve themselves of any blame. If they really wanted a console fix, they could do it themselves.

Not trying to be negative, but I'm not sure this is a fair statement. Squad is obviously a PC game development company (those familiar and who work with them could likely confirm) which as I'm sure you know is a somewhat different skill set than console development. A lot of the same under the hood, but still different overall and very time-consuming.

Given limited resources of a small company, it makes sense to partner with another company who has the relevant skill set. Unfortunately, either FTE over-promised, or wasn't generally capable, or more likely that plus not realizing how complicated this game is when they signed up to bring it to console. The results were pretty bad, as we all know.

Edited July 16, 2017 by scottadges

[Benjamin Kerman]

12 minutes ago, scottadges said:

Not trying to be negative, but I'm not sure this is a fair statement. Squad is obviously a PC game development company (those familiar and who work with them could likely confirm) which as I'm sure you know is a somewhat different skill set than console development. A lot of the same under the hood, but still different overall and very time-consuming.

Given limited resources of a small company, it makes sense to partner with another company who has the relevant skill set. Unfortunately, either FTE over-promised, or wasn't generally capable, or more likely that plus not realizing how complicated this game is when they signed up to bring it to console. The results were pretty bad, as we all know.

Exactly this. Squad wasnt even a game dev company! 

[Kerbuvim]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

Exactly this. Squad wasnt even a game dev company! 

Aha. SQUAD - a marketing company with the appropriate behavior - "without bluff, you will not sell anything."

[Curveball Anders]

On 2017-07-16 at 9:34 PM, LegendaryAce said:

You mean Blitworks? Squad conveniently outsourced the job to FTE and Blitworks to absolve themselves of any blame. If they really wanted a console fix, they could do it themselves.

Do you really think that a studio that has no previous experience in developing software for consoles would be able to do a better and/or faster job than a studio dedicated at console development?

I sure don't think so.

Outsourcing porting doesn't absolve Squad from responsibility in any way, regardless of contractor.

But what Squad did wrong was choosing the wrong contractor for the initial port (FTE).

Once the first (not very good ...) ports where released to the public they had no choice but either continue to pour money into FTE, hoping that they could fix the port, or drop them and redo the port with a new contractor.

It would probably been cheaper for Squad to pay FTE (or hire someone else) to patch the initial port to a 'reasonably' functional state (as in good enough not to get sued) but that would have left their customers with a bad, if not obviously broken, product.

Instead they decided to bite the bullet, take the economical hit and pay a new contractor (Blitworks) to do a proper port more or less from scratch.

I've been involved in way to many projects where the management have decided go the cheaper route, refusing to accept that the horse is lame, and chosen to dope it so it stumbles across the finishing line.

Only to fall down dead once across the line.

So while the current situation is annoying and frustrating I would have loved to have that commitment from management in those 'yes it's a donkey, but let's paint it silver, stick on a carrot and try to pass it off as a small unicorn'-projects ...

Edited July 18, 2017 by Curveball Anders
gramar

[klesh]

15 hours ago, SleepyInsomniac said:

Hopefully they outsourced the QA process as well.

 

Having read between the lines of the KSP Weeklies, the additional QA team is coming from Take Two Interactive.  

[GrouchyDevotee]

Is there any word on just how much the PS4 controller layout is going to change?

I only ask, because I'm still occasionally picking up the game and either docking at my station, or doing landings/take-offs on Mun or Minmus, and I suppose I'm just re-enforcing what will prove to be bad habits.

I seem to remember somebody suggesting the possibility of having different control set-ups for atmospheric and space craft. I've logged quite a lot of time on various flight sims, but I don't enjoy the typical up/down on one stick with roll and yaw in other spots. Probably just me, but that takes the flying out of it. I cannot fly the mouse either, just not fun.

Will a keyboard be functional?

Will a Joystick or flight-yolk work?

Is it ready yet?

Can I play it soon?

[Thothx42]

For  one really don't care about I'm sorry and it wasn't our fault Boohoo.  I'm done with  the game I'm with this company. You have wasted my money and my time. You had every chance I could do this right but did you test the game before release obviously not did you quickly and efficiently fix the game no no you didn't. I've been playing game's from Atari till now I've been around and I've seen some blunders in the gaming world but this is one of the worst mess ups I've ever seen. And by far the longest fix I've seen. So to end this you obviously don't care about our right to buy a working product and obviously don't care  about the value of our money. So thank you a lot of nothing. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Thothx42
Misspelling

[Karma Kerman]

10 hours ago, Thothx42 said:

For  one really don't care about I'm sorry and it wasn't our fault Boohoo.  I'm done with  the game I'm with this company. You have wasted my money and my time. You had every chance I could do this right but did you test the game before release obviously not did you quickly and efficiently fix the game no no you didn't. I've been playing game's from Atari till now I've been around and I've seen some blunders in the gaming world but this is one of the worst mess ups I've ever seen. And by far the longest fix I've seen. So to end this you obviously don't care about our right to buy a working product and obviously don't care  about the value of our money. So thank you a lot of nothing. 

Look FTE (Flying tiger entertainment) didn't know how to properly port this game onto the console and they had to get a different port developer (blitzworks) which have a good history of porting games and theres cert testing on the console which can take 1 to 2 weeks ok

[LegendaryAce]

23 hours ago, GrouchyDevotee said:

Is there any word on just how much the PS4 controller layout is going to change?

I only ask, because I'm still occasionally picking up the game and either docking at my station, or doing landings/take-offs on Mun or Minmus, and I suppose I'm just re-enforcing what will prove to be bad habits.

I seem to remember somebody suggesting the possibility of having different control set-ups for atmospheric and space craft. I've logged quite a lot of time on various flight sims, but I don't enjoy the typical up/down on one stick with roll and yaw in other spots. Probably just me, but that takes the flying out of it. I cannot fly the mouse either, just not fun.

Will a keyboard be functional?

Will a Joystick or flight-yolk work?

Is it ready yet?

Can I play it soon?

I don't believe there's been any mention on the control scheme besides the fact that it's being "improved". 

As a 17 year veteran of the Ace Combat series, I'm most comfortable with the Left Stick controlling pitch and roll, the Triggers controlling throttle, and the Bumpers controlling yaw. So if that was an option for in-atmosphere craft, I'd be happy.

If not, at the very least, could it be like Fallout where I can edit the button bindings? IL-2 Sturmovik and Birds of Steel both had that option.

3 hours ago, Karma Kerman said:

Look FTE (Flying tiger entertainment) didn't know how to properly port this game onto the console and they had to get a different port developer (blitzworks) which have a good history of porting games and theres cert testing on the console which can take 1 to 2 weeks ok

The problem with this is that they're not even in the Cert process. From what it's sounding like, it sounds like it's still in Alpha, maybe early Beta. I wouldn't count on seeing the RE-RELEASE until possibly October.

[OrganizedChaos]

On 7/18/2017 at 9:15 PM, LegendaryAce said:

I don't believe there's been any mention on the control scheme besides the fact that it's being "improved". 

As a 17 year veteran of the Ace Combat series, I'm most comfortable with the Left Stick controlling pitch and roll, the Triggers controlling throttle, and the Bumpers controlling yaw. So if that was an option for in-atmosphere craft, I'd be happy.

If not, at the very least, could it be like Fallout where I can edit the button bindings? IL-2 Sturmovik and Birds of Steel both had that option.

The problem with this is that they're not even in the Cert process. From what it's sounding like, it sounds like it's still in Alpha, maybe early Beta. I wouldn't count on seeing the RE-RELEASE until possibly October.

Isn't Q A usually towards the end? 

Edited July 21, 2017 by OrganizedChaos

[Ineedaweapon]

In the weekly...

Quote

Console work is also continuing. The external QA team has finished the first of several testing rounds and were able to identify a few issues that are being confirmed by our team and later will be fixed by our friends at Blitworks.

 

[Kerbuvim]

29 minutes ago, Ineedaweapon said:

In the weekly...

 

"We are working on it". Ugh.

[LegendaryAce]

2 hours ago, Ineedaweapon said:

Console work is also continuing. The external QA team has finished the first of several testing rounds and were able to identify a few issues that are being confirmed by our team and later will be fixed by our friends at Blitworks.

In other words, MORE WAITING!!!

I swear I'm a hair's breadth away from going postal. This is BEYOND ridiculous, and I'm at my wits end.

Before, we were at the QA process, BUT NOW we're back to the damn DEBUGGING PHASE!

Ugh, KILL ME NOW!

(Wait, not yet. At least I have Ace Combat 7 to look forward to, and at least Project Aces is a competent dev)

Edited July 22, 2017 by LegendaryAce

[razark]

What do you want?

Do you want a release now, or do you want a working product?

[LegendaryAce]

How about a working product released in a REASONABLE TIME-FRAME?! 

"Early 2017" turned into "Mid 2017" and now possibly "Late 2017". Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was delayed until 2018!

[razark]

Ok, and how do you propose to achieve it?

How do you balance the need to make a quality product with the need to get it out fast?  What is the best way to minimize game-breaking bugs, but have the product ship tomorrow?  How do you define a "reasonable time frame", and how does that relate to a working product?  Are you willing to trade some bugs for a faster release?  Are you willing to rush through development and drop features to make sure the ones you do have are working?  Are you willing to risk a major bug getting through QA just so you get it on shelves a little bit earlier?  At what point do you say this is good enough, even though you know you're going to get slammed by critics who disagree with the decision, even though they don't know all the facts involved?

Please, what is the magical formula for software design, implementation, and release?

[LegendaryAce]

To answer your questions:

1) Don't outsource your work if you want it done properly, or make sure to vet better.

2) Debug through the typical way a gamer plays and a little harder. The extremes in gaming are asking for trouble. (i.e. 1 rocket with 200+ stages activated at once).

3) A reasonable time frame would be less than a year since the release, and not so long that fans abandon my game.

4) I would trade some smaller bugs for a faster update. I much prefer a hotfix two weeks later than a re-release a year and a half later.

5) YES. I AM! A working base game is better than being told of future updates that will never work unless the game is fixed.

6) NO! Because that's EXACTLY what Squad did!

7) When you can run an open Beta and players can play for more than 4 hours? And we console gamers have EVERY right to criticize anything about this game.

Does this answer your questions?

[Vanamonde]

Please don't start this argument again. On the one hand, mot all of the console posters' complaints are valid, but on the other hand we'd all be frustrated if we'd bought a game we couldn't play. Attacking each other isn't going to help.