totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Mechtech]

so question! this supposedly ships with a TRP-hire fork, but I have yet to actually see it- using the normal TRP hire mod works, perfectly (though without the UKS classes) while removing it gives me the stock hiring system with UKS classes... which, generally, means it's friggin' impossible to actually staff a mission as the stock system only generates Kerbals in batches of 10, so good luck getting a Pilot or Engineer instead of, say, a botanist.

 

it's a wee bit irritating since I do like the idea of more classes to play with (especially Kolonists, since I can stuff them into things with lower EPL values in place of Pilots or Scientists) for RP reasons.

any ideas?

[DStaal]

5 minutes ago, Mechtech said:

so question! this supposedly ships with a TRP-hire fork, but I have yet to actually see it- using the normal TRP hire mod works, perfectly (though without the UKS classes) while removing it gives me the stock hiring system with UKS classes... which, generally, means it's friggin' impossible to actually staff a mission as the stock system only generates Kerbals in batches of 10, so good luck getting a Pilot or Engineer instead of, say, a botanist.

 

it's a wee bit irritating since I do like the idea of more classes to play with (especially Kolonists, since I can stuff them into things with lower EPL values in place of Pilots or Scientists) for RP reasons.

any ideas?

Show us your GameData folder - I'm guessing something's borked in your install.

[Mechtech]

yeah, that's both not impossible and somewhat unlikely. while I do run a lot of mods, most of them are parts stuff like Fuel Tanks Plus or Planetay Base systems, immersion widgets like chatterer, or QoL tools like Precicenode or the aforementioned TRP-hire.

 

I also have seen this behavior with just USI installed for testing purposes, which is why I've been confused.

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, Mechtech said:

yeah, that's both not impossible and somewhat unlikely. while I do run a lot of mods, most of them are parts stuff like Fuel Tanks Plus or Planetay Base systems, immersion widgets like chatterer, or QoL tools like Precicenode or the aforementioned TRP-hire.

<schnip>

I also have seen this behavior with just USI installed for testing purposes, which is why I've been confused.

What version are you running? This is a new(ish) behaviour.

[Mechtech]

latest release off the github- I literally just spent the last four hours re-downloading and reinstalling all my mods after I borked my saves trying to do something clever, and went 'well as long as excrements's loveed I might as well do those updates I've been putting off so AVC will stop pestering me' and I'd strictly been using TSP-hire before that. I never even saw the double-layering behavior reported upthread, nor did I really care since I was still mostly messing with sandbox stuff.

 

however I have been thinking about a career save and wanted to get my current setup (reasonably) stable and Working As Intended before I start adding contract packs.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Mechtech

[voicey99]

8 minutes ago, Mechtech said:

latest release off the github- I literally just spent the last four hours re-downloading and reinstalling all my mods after I borked my saves trying to do something clever, and went 'well as long as excrements's loveed I might as well do those updates I've been putting off so AVC will stop pestering me' and I'd strictly been using TSP-hire before that. I never even saw the double-layering behavior reported upthread, nor did I really care since I was still mostly messing with sandbox stuff.

 

however I have been thinking about a career save and wanted to get my current setup (reasonably) stable and Working As Intended before I start adding contract packs.

Unless this is a mod mechanic I'm not aware of, try downloading the USI Constellation (under /bobpalmer) to make sure all your USI mod versions are synced up.

[Mechtech]

that seems to have fixed the issue, thanks. not sure WHAT was out of sync, since I literally just pulled the latest releases off their respective Github pages today, but whatever. sometimes things just break for no reason lol.

[ruiluth]

On 5/19/2017 at 1:59 AM, maja said:

Good helpers are PAL parts from USI Konstruction. For example, PAL Magnet adds 10 tons to nearby Kerbal when manipulating parts. Build some rover with two PAL magnets and you can lift 21 tons with one Kerbal.

It seems that this is the solution to many problems, but where is the information on this? I never found it in any of my research and I can't find it now. Could someone help me with that?

EDIT: Never mind, I checked the KSPedia and it was briefly mentioned there. I never check the KSPedia since I learned everything I needed to know before it was added. It would be a good idea to include that information somewhere else, I think...

Edited May 21, 2017 by ruiluth

[Merkov]

1 hour ago, ruiluth said:

It seems that this is the solution to many problems, but where is the information on this? I never found it in any of my research and I can't find it now. Could someone help me with that?

EDIT: Never mind, I checked the KSPedia and it was briefly mentioned there. I never check the KSPedia since I learned everything I needed to know before it was added. It would be a good idea to include that information somewhere else, I think...

Feel free to add it to the wiki, but I think the KSPedia is a perfectly natural place for handy information like that. It's a handy place to put information that is accessible in game. I'm a little stumped by your logic behind not looking at the KSPedia for something you didn't know because you already knew everything you needed to know, but there are a few mods out there that have put together very good KSPedia pages, so I would encourage you to check it out every now and then. 

[KriLL3]

Just me or are MaterialKits the bane of MKS setups? I mean all I'm doing is inflating something, why do I need tons and tons of construction materials? It's not as bad on surface bases where you can mine what you need but for space stations etc it's so annoying, deploying that huge ring costs 65k materialkits, needs a massive tank of it to expand, might as well just use that volume and weight to send up non-expanding habs instead.

[Aelfhe1m]

3 minutes ago, KriLL3 said:

Just me or are MaterialKits the bane of MKS setups? I mean all I'm doing is inflating something, why do I need tons and tons of construction materials? It's not as bad on surface bases where you can mine what you need but for space stations etc it's so annoying, deploying that huge ring costs 65k materialkits, needs a massive tank of it to expand, might as well just use that volume and weight to send up non-expanding habs instead.

It's not just inflating the outer shell but also equipping the interior space with furniture, shelves, containers, equipment, machinery etc. etc.

[KriLL3]

7 minutes ago, Aelfhe1m said:

It's not just inflating the outer shell but also equipping the interior space with furniture, shelves, containers, equipment, machinery etc. etc.

Sure, but I need a tank for those material kits larger than the volume of the thing I'm inflating, it's a bit excessive imo.

[JohnnyPanzer]

3 hours ago, KriLL3 said:

Just me or are MaterialKits the bane of MKS setups? I mean all I'm doing is inflating something, why do I need tons and tons of construction materials? It's not as bad on surface bases where you can mine what you need but for space stations etc it's so annoying, deploying that huge ring costs 65k materialkits, needs a massive tank of it to expand, might as well just use that volume and weight to send up non-expanding habs instead.

Isn't it 46k?

Anyway, as @Aelfhe1m said, it makes perfect sense when you consider the interior being constructed. Just send up a separate cargoship once you've assembled the station, carrying everything you need. That's what I always do and it feels both realistic and a bit "roleplayish". I always assemble my stations dry and uncrewed and then once it's assembled I'll send up a large ship that's basically just a bunch of containers and a hitchhiker can or two. I like to imagine it being like in one of the Star Trek movies, with the crew arriving at the almost finished vessel in a shuttle and then the station's chief engineer get's to weld on the last bolts before they can all embark.

Space stations have always been (meant to be) less self sufficient in MKS, so it makes perfect sense that they would require shipments from either home or a colony in order to construct certain large sections. I like it.

[jd284]

6 hours ago, KriLL3 said:

Sure, but I need a tank for those material kits larger than the volume of the thing I'm inflating, it's a bit excessive imo.

Yeah, it'd be nice if it were possible to inflate them incrementally, or (at least for surface bases), to use MK from the planetary storage.

Or give the appropriate MK storage to the part itself and remove it when it's inflated. It only makes sense that there's room for 46k MK in the hab ring after all, if they are required to kit them out.

Having to bring up a 5 m kontainer or two ISM just to have enough MK in one place is really stupid.

I made ticket #1004 for this but so far there hasn't been anyone to work on it.

[voicey99]

1 hour ago, jd284 said:

Yeah, it'd be nice if it were possible to inflate them incrementally, or (at least for surface bases), to use MK from the planetary storage.

Or give the appropriate MK storage to the part itself and remove it when it's inflated. It only makes sense that there's room for 46k MK in the hab ring after all, if they are required to kit them out.

Having to bring up a 5 m kontainer or two ISM just to have enough MK in one place is really stupid.

I made ticket #1004 for this but so far there hasn't been anyone to work on it.

I think RD is more occupied with working on the new logistics system when it comes to coding time. Either that, or it's on the back burner until 1.3.

[Kwarazi]

1 hour ago, jd284 said:

Having to bring up a 5 m kontainer or two ISM just to have enough MK in one place is really stupid.

I made ticket #1004 for this but so far there hasn't been anyone to work on it.

I think stupid is a bit excessive and a bit insulting to the mod author as it probably works like that because he likes it that way, which may also be the reason no one is working on your ticket. it also might be the case what your asking for is not possible.

[voicey99]

9 minutes ago, Kwarazi said:

I think stupid is a bit excessive and a bit insulting to the mod author as it probably works like that because he likes it that way, which may also be the reason no one is working on your ticket. it also might be the case what your asking for is not possible.

While I get what @jd284 means, 'stupid' is indeed probably not the word you want to use. RD summed it up nicely a while back:

On 11/01/2017 at 0:19 PM, RoverDude said:

Please check the attitude a bit.  You will find people more receptive if you don't start off by insulting people or their work.

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, jd284 said:

Having to bring up a 5 m kontainer or two ISM just to have enough MK in one place is really stupid.

Two points.  First, yeah.  Check the attitude - a bad one kicks you out of the conversation.

Second.  a 5m kontainer is not required... you could do it with a bunch of 1.25's if you were so inclined.

9 hours ago, KriLL3 said:

Just me or are MaterialKits the bane of MKS setups? I mean all I'm doing is inflating something, why do I need tons and tons of construction materials? It's not as bad on surface bases where you can mine what you need but for space stations etc it's so annoying, deploying that huge ring costs 65k materialkits, needs a massive tank of it to expand, might as well just use that volume and weight to send up non-expanding habs instead.

(Bold emphasis mine).

There would be zero mass savings, and it would be less efficient volume wise.  Also consider just how absolutely massive that ring is, along with all of it's bonuses - it is appropriately balanced.  You can also just pre-deploy the ring before launch if you're not concerned with mass.

Or to put it another way.  Every single part that is kitted out with MatKits can be pre-built.  The ability to send it in a smaller package and send up the rest of the bits separately then assemble in-situ is a bonus.

[Johould]

8 hours ago, KriLL3 said:

Sure, but I need a tank for those material kits larger than the volume of the thing I'm inflating, it's a bit excessive imo.

Nothing should need a larger container than the inflated volume. If any part doesn't have decent volume savings when shipped deflated along with a container I think it's a bug. If you prefer you can always inflate the part in the VAB and not worry about material kits.

Besides just launching more compact payloads a big point of inflatables is that material kits are relatively easy to produce in the field, so ideally you don't need to ship the material kits at all, or just on a reusable local freighter rather than from KSC.

I'm not sure how the balance works out now that ground construction is integrated - shipping a DIY kit along with just specialized parts can also be finished with local material kits.

Incidentally, do the extra modules USI uses for life support and logistics and stuff mess with the "complexity" calculation in GC?

[DStaal]

4 hours ago, jd284 said:

Yeah, it'd be nice if it were possible to inflate them incrementally, or (at least for surface bases), to use MK from the planetary storage.

Or give the appropriate MK storage to the part itself and remove it when it's inflated. It only makes sense that there's room for 46k MK in the hab ring after all, if they are required to kit them out.

Having to bring up a 5 m kontainer or two ISM just to have enough MK in one place is really stupid.

I made ticket #1004 for this but so far there hasn't been anyone to work on it.

The incremental (á la EL's incremental builds) sounds like a good idea to me: it models the act of kitting it out over time, instead of doing it all in one frenzied moment.  I suspect it would be a lot of coding work to implement however.

The giving the storage in the part itself doesn't make sense - as the whole point is that they are *collapsed* and not taking up the whole volume they enclose, so saying they should still hold the materials that would be in that enclosed volume is a bit non-sensical: It doesn't have that volume yet.

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

The incremental (á la EL's incremental builds) sounds like a good idea to me: it models the act of kitting it out over time, instead of doing it all in one frenzied moment.  I suspect it would be a lot of coding work to implement however.

It has already kinda been done, with antennas' Partial Transmit mode. Not sure how well it would translate to module inflation, though.

[Mechtech]

honestly my suggestion is to use Davion Supply or something like it and just add materialkits and specilizedparts to its Big List of Shippable Stuff, which is what I did for Kerbin SoI stuff, or build a ground colony first and use in-situ production and a reusable freighter. I, for example, used Karibou bits and NFT Trusses to build an Eagle-alike one time, and another I built automated lifters based around 2.5m shipping containers with some engines, RCS and a docking port stuck to one end.

but then, I also used MM configs to give myself a couple alternate production chains for a handful of key resources, one based around a clone of Nertea's Itenerant container (which is about the same size as a hitchhiker but only seats two) as a 'fabrication module' that can whip up some basic stuff from Karbonite, ore and a good bit of power, and another based on Metalore=>Metals=>Materailkits+specilizedparts using Nils'  KPBS stuff. though I did balance them as rather less efficient than the more complicated MKS chains so as not to be overpowered.

on that note:

a seed base using a Hitchiker drill pod (right), a Fabrication module (center, with large radiator) and an EL survey station (right.) also shown in the foreground is a utility truck for transporting KIS stuff. I'll be adding more variants later.

[Baladain]

I'm trying to identify a problem with my chemicals manufacturing chain.

4873 minerals are being turned into 974 chemicals per day, giving me a net chemicals gain of .01/second after base consumption is being taken into account.

There are more than 90K minerals in planetary logistics.

I have 26K worth of warehouse enabled minerals storage on base (over three kontainers) (should be enough for 5 days)

Running in time warp, there is a slow and steady build up of chemicals, but every time I go back to my base from other actions, my chemical storage is back at 0.

 

my mining base is gaining 7k chemicals/day and has 8k warehouse enabled storage.

 

 

Does this make sense to anyone?

[voicey99]

5 minutes ago, Baladain said:

Does this make sense to anyone?

No. It might with a save or vidclip, though.

[Baladain]

3 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

No. It might with a save or vidclip, though.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xqtpl7z7ln3hzc/persistent.sfs?dl=0

It's the minmus build that has the problem.