totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[LatiMacciato]

11 hours ago, Kaa253 said:

am pretty busy in RL so regrettably I wont offer any help besides possibly doing a bit of play testing if still needed on or around next weekend.

np at all! the stuff I uploaded here can be used as reference and used for that purpose for a PR, sadly I'm busy myself IRL and hope for someone to hop on that EL 6.0 topic. btw I did fix the correct dependency ("Launchpad" instead "ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads" in :NEEDS sections etc). Furthermore FTT is included in my configs.

please someone PR to update the support.

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, LatiMacciato said:

btw I did fix the correct dependency ("Launchpad" instead "ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads" in :NEEDS sections etc). Furthermore FTT is included in my configs.

please someone PR to update the support.

The GameData folder is still called ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads, so it still targets the correct folder. The DLL is just an alternative target.

I'll PR in the fix for FTT.

[LatiMacciato]

Just now, voicey99 said:

The GameData folder is still called ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads, so it still targets the correct folder. The DLL is just an alternative target.

I'll PR in the fix for FTT.

the assembly is called Launchpad but if it works, it works, ty for your PR's! ill delete it on my repo then (just keeping that as reminder)

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, LatiMacciato said:

the assembly is called Launchpad but if it works, it works

The assembly tag is called Launchpad, but the NEEDS tag will target both loaded DLLs and the names of GameData folders. So, for example, if you wanted to target TweakScale you could use either NEEDS[TweakScale] or NEEDS[Scale]. it just happens that for EPL the DLL and folder had the same names, but now you can target either NEEDS[ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads] or NEEDS[Launchpad] for either the folder or DLL respectively. Either one will target the mod just the same as the other.

[LatiMacciato]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

The assembly tag is called Launchpad, but the NEEDS tag will target both loaded DLLs and the names of GameData folders. So, for example, if you wanted to target TweakScale you could use either NEEDS[TweakScale] or NEEDS[Scale]. it just happens that for EPL the DLL and folder had the same names, but now you can target either NEEDS[ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads] or NEEDS[Launchpad] for either the folder or DLL respectively. Either one will target the mod just the same as the other.

ahh ok, ty good to know!

[MutunusTutunus]

Hey all, I'm having trouble finding anything bigger than the MEU-100 Pulse Drill.  The Wiki seems to say that all drills are unlocked at the same science cost, but I have combed the tech tree and haven't found them.  I have also tried searching the forums and internet in general, but can't find anything about unlocking them.  I have unlocked "advanced science" in the tree, but nothing afterward includes other drills/the strip miner.

I'm using USI Core, USI Freight, USI MKS, USI Life Support, and USI Tools.

By the way - I'm also having trouble searching USI parts in the VAB.  Is that normal?

Edited April 9, 2018 by MutunusTutunus

[tseitsei89]

11 hours ago, MutunusTutunus said:

Hey all, I'm having trouble finding anything bigger than the MEU-100 Pulse Drill.  The Wiki seems to say that all drills are unlocked at the same science cost, but I have combed the tech tree and haven't found them.  I have also tried searching the forums and internet in general, but can't find anything about unlocking them.  I have unlocked "advanced science" in the tree, but nothing afterward includes other drills/the strip miner.

I'm using USI Core, USI Freight, USI MKS, USI Life Support, and USI Tools.

By the way - I'm also having trouble searching USI parts in the VAB.  Is that normal?

The drill issue is already reported and a temporary fix can be found here: 

 

[MutunusTutunus]

1 hour ago, tseitsei89 said:

The drill issue is already reported and a temporary fix can be found here: 

<snip>

Oh, not even a page back.  Can't believe I missed that.  Thanks.

[JPGSP]

i have a problem that the part likes the base module don´t appear in the VAB/SPH but they are in the folder of USI in GameData and a mod that checks the version of the mods and the version of ksp that they work on and it says that  that version of the mod is for 1.4.1.

I tried to reinstall the mod and it happens the same. 

Does any one knows ho to solve it?

Edit:I think why it don´t work

Edited April 11, 2018 by JPGSP

[tseitsei89]

Hi.

I ran into a problem while trying to finish my self sufficient mun base.

The problem is with tundra 3.5m kolonization module. I am currently producing ~30 units of colony supplies per hour so I should EASILY have enough to keep 2 kolonization modules running since they should only use 3 units of CS /hour/module. BUT for some reason they both say they are running at 516% load (this cannot be adjusted with the governor slider either...) and use much more CS than 3/hour (something like 15-20/hour).

I currently have only 5 kerbals(1 pilot, 2engineer, 2scientist) in that base so I dont really need both modules right now but I would like to expand and be able to have that base delivering CS to munar orbital station also...

Any idea what might be going on or if I'm misunderstanding something?

I'm using 1.4.2 ksp version and 0.55.0.0 mks version.

Thanks in advance

Edit: Also if there is an easy way to fix this myself by tampering with the part files, that would be fine too. I just dont know what number(s) I need to change and where...

Edited April 11, 2018 by tseitsei89

[Gilph]

What are your Kolony Statistics bonus levels? I believe they can go as high as 500%. In addition your Kerbal level will also add to that.

[tseitsei89]

14 minutes ago, Gilph said:

What are your Kolony Statistics bonus levels? I believe they can go as high as 500%. In addition your Kerbal level will also add to that.

Something like 150% IIRC definitely less than 200%. Plus it wouldnt even make any sense if having more bonuses would make kolonizatiom harder(since modules use more CS)

[voicey99]

23 minutes ago, tseitsei89 said:

Something like 150% IIRC definitely less than 200%. Plus it wouldnt even make any sense if having more bonuses would make kolonizatiom harder(since modules use more CS)

The bonuses go up to 500%, but the multiplier applied is the the product of two of multipliers. For processing parts it is geology², for growing-related parts it's geology * botany and for habitation modules it is kolonisation². Install the MKS Explainer mod to see a breakdown of where your load % is coming from.

[Gilph]

Just checked my 1.3.1 save. My 2.5 Kolonization module runs at 1917.44%. There are three 5 star kerbals on that vessel and my bonuses are around 125%. I checked the CS consumption rate and they look correct in the part definition. It does appear to be a bug.

I also agree. Not a fan of the high bonus levels.

 

[tseitsei89]

Further tests show that modules use pretty accurately about 15 CS/hour/module which would suggest that they are using that 516% load since 5.16*3 ~ 15.

The weird thing is that this should be easily fixable just by using the governor sliders in the kolonization modules but these sliders have absolutely no effect on anything. Modules use same amount of CS and habitation timers of kerbals keep running backwards even if I set the governor slider all the way to 0 or anything in between...

Edit: where do kolonization even get their bonuses? I mean other parts get bonuses from crusher/smelter/greenhouse parts and expertkerbal bonuses (engineer/scientist). But what gives bonuses to kolonization modules. Other than planetary kolonization bonuses? I didnt find anything about that from the wiki or  in game part info... Also I checked and my planetary kolonization bonuses are 137% so 516% load for kolonization modules has to be about something else than that...

Edited April 11, 2018 by tseitsei89

[Kaa253]

@RoverDude I am finding the bay switching is bugged on 3 parts; the Ranger Habitation Module and the two Tundra Expandable Habitats.

In the VAB the Next Bay and Prev. Bay switches do nothing. In the flight scene I am able to turn on and off all the available modules. Not just one of them. The resulting habitation time effect for the Hab is rather overpowered!

I note that these are all expandable parts however the Ranger Agricultural Module seems to be just fine.

New: On closer inspection I find the Next / Prev. buttons also don't work on the big Tundra Habitation Ring and the Tundra Nuclear Fuel Plant and all these Next / Prev. buttons are also inoperable in the flight scene (by Engineer).

Could someone confirm this issue please? I can add a github issue but is it unique to Linux for example?

Edited April 11, 2018 by Kaa253
requesting confirmation.

[sstabeler]

Think of it this way- a Kolonization Module with no bonuses would run 6 times per month to increase LS timers 1 month (presumably) for 2 kerbals each time, meaning that for every 2 Kerbals, the Kolonization Module runs once every 5 days. However, the combination of the Kolony Boosts and the effect of the pilot means it gets to run 516% more times per month, or between 30 and 31 times per month. Allowing each module to support 60 Kerbals. In other words, you really don't need two. (the absolute maximum for a Kolonization module, incidentally, by my calculations, is 3000% Load, which would allow one module to support 375 Kerbals)

[tseitsei89]

11 minutes ago, sstabeler said:

Think of it this way- a Kolonization Module with no bonuses would run 6 times per month to increase LS timers 1 month (presumably) for 2 kerbals each time, meaning that for every 2 Kerbals, the Kolonization Module runs once every 5 days. However, the combination of the Kolony Boosts and the effect of the pilot means it gets to run 516% more times per month, or between 30 and 31 times per month. Allowing each module to support 60 Kerbals. In other words, you really don't need two. (the absolute maximum for a Kolonization module, incidentally, by my calculations, is 3000% Load, which would allow one module to support 375 Kerbals)

Okay I get that but how can I make it use just the 3CS/hour and support just 6 kerbals? Governor slider should do just that but for some reason it doesnt do anything at all

[Gilph]

2 minutes ago, tseitsei89 said:

Okay I get that but how can I make it use just the 3CS/hour and support just 6 kerbals? Governor slider should do just that but for some reason it doesnt do anything at all

The issue isn't really the governor, the module really needs to be fixed.

The governor slider may be from reuse of a UI object. I remember they did not work in many cases in older versions, but they do now work on the converters that I use. It might be that the part was never intended to be subject to being set by a governor (like a fixed function), which is why it doesn't work.

[sstabeler]

I suspect it's more that tseit is using two, and might only be modifying the governor on one. If they shut down one, then set the governor, that might work. It just needs to be set to 10%, or 5% on each Kolonization module. I can't see why it wouldn't work though.

[Gilph]

15 minutes ago, sstabeler said:

I suspect it's more that tseit is using two, and might only be modifying the governor on one. If they shut down one, then set the governor, that might work. It just needs to be set to 10%, or 5% on each Kolonization module. I can't see why it wouldn't work though.

I just checked on my 1.3.1 save and I only have a single Kolonization module. the governor did not work.

Interestingly, i had a 5 star engineer leave the vessel (leaving the pilot and another engineer), and the load went from 1917% to 1967%

[tseitsei89]

17 minutes ago, sstabeler said:

I suspect it's more that tseit is using two, and might only be modifying the governor on one. If they shut down one, then set the governor, that might work. It just needs to be set to 10%, or 5% on each Kolonization module. I can't see why it wouldn't work though.

Oh for god's sake I'm not a complete idiot. Of course I have tried stopping the other module completely and just adjusting one of the modules governor slider. But the governor slider doesnt do anything. It works on other assembly and refinery modules just fine but just not with kolonization modules. I think I can "play around this" for now but an actual fix would be nice.

[sstabeler]

I didn't think you were a complete idiot- just that it's easy to overlook things. It's basic debugging- run through the possible points of failure. 

 

However, I think I've found the problem. I think that the Governor's not actually intended to do anything with Kolonization modules. The Med Bay, however, probably is. Think of it this way- the Kolonization module is intended to provide all the comforts of home. While KSP's engine requires the module to run for a certain period of time, the Kolonization module's really intended to be considered to be where off-duty Kerbals are hanging out, it's just that the length of time a converter runs for includes the off-duty time (hence why converters run quicker with higher specialisms and a higher Kolony rating- the Kerbal spends more time doing their actual job and less time off-duty so things get done quicker.) the Med Bay, however, has a scientist- or Medic I think (I'm not sure if a medic would be able to operate a Med Bay w/o a scientist on the same vessel, but I'm 99% sure that provided there's at least one scientist on the vessel, a medic can operate the Med Bay) who actively treats homesickness. As such, a governor makes sense on the Med bay but not really on the Kolonization Module, since the Kolonization module's closer to a Hab module than an assembly or refinery module.

Technically if you add 

Quote

UseSpecialistBonus = true

            SpecialistEfficiencyFactor = 0.2

            SpecialistBonusBase = 0.05

            ExperienceEffect = MedicalSkill

to the ModuleLifeSupportExtender, I think that will allow the Governor to work, since that makes it basically identical to the Med Bay. However, that's speculation on my part, and probably means it no longer works as RoverDude intended.

@RoverDude am I along the right lines about the Kolonization module not intended to have a functional Governor slider?

[tseitsei89]

7 minutes ago, sstabeler said:

I didn't think you were a complete idiot- just that it's easy to overlook things. It's basic debugging- run through the possible points of failure. 

 

However, I think I've found the problem. I think that the Governor's not actually intended to do anything with Kolonization modules. The Med Bay, however, probably is. Think of it this way- the Kolonization module is intended to provide all the comforts of home. While KSP's engine requires the module to run for a certain period of time, the Kolonization module's really intended to be considered to be where off-duty Kerbals are hanging out, it's just that the length of time a converter runs for includes the off-duty time (hence why converters run quicker with higher specialisms and a higher Kolony rating- the Kerbal spends more time doing their actual job and less time off-duty so things get done quicker.) the Med Bay, however, has a scientist- or Medic I think (I'm not sure if a medic would be able to operate a Med Bay w/o a scientist on the same vessel, but I'm 99% sure that provided there's at least one scientist on the vessel, a medic can operate the Med Bay) who actively treats homesickness. As such, a governor makes sense on the Med bay but not really on the Kolonization Module, since the Kolonization module's closer to a Hab module than an assembly or refinery module.

Technically if you add 

to the ModuleLifeSupportExtender, I think that will allow the Governor to work, since that makes it basically identical to the Med Bay. However, that's speculation on my part, and probably means it no longer works as RoverDude intended.

@RoverDude am I along the right lines about the Kolonization module not intended to have a functional Governor slider?

Sorry if I insulted you but yeah that seems to be how it works. It is still weird IMO since less kerbals should use less all of this "luxury stuff" that CS is simulating. But yeah I have enough to CS production to keep one module running and have leftover to send to orbital station also.

And now I knpw that I can use smaller modules in the future since they can support much more kerbals than I ever expected.

The only remaining question is, what factors affect the load percentage of kolonization modules and how? Obviously kolonization bonus percentage (with percentage^2 factor). In addition highest ranked pilots on board? Other kerbals on board? Some efficiency parts (which ones though...)

I will try to play with this for now that I think I roughly understand how it works. But thanks for the "fix" also, now I know what to do if I want to change it.

Also I realised that I can just keep the kolonization module on even if I dont have enough CS to keep it running all the time but it will still use any CS produced and be running whenever it has CS and keep my kerbals happy since I only have 5 and it has capacity for 30 (or even 60?) currently. Or did I misunderstand something here?

 

And thanks to all who helped in this situation!

[Gilph]

Making a Github issue.

@tseitsei89Can I ask how many stars your Kerbals have in that vessel? Mine are all 5 stars, which may be why my load % is a lot more than yours.

 

Done - Issue 1404

Edited April 11, 2018 by Gilph
update