totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

20 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Screenshot of the situation?

its about as dark as it gets atm though, i'll post one once the base finally gets to see some sun again...

btw, how much levels can i level up crew with the academy module? i've got one level 5 engineer and 11 level 2's (now level 3)

[Kobymaru]

Hi!

I wanted to do something new and  Instead of going the usual "Kerbals do everything" route, I wanted to rely on automation as much as possible.

My plan is to send a small-ish ship in advance that uses local resources to produce a stock of MaterialKits and Machinery, and only *then* send my Kerbals in to finish and inhabit the base.

The new Material Processing units are great for that. However, it's a bit slow to produce anything useful out of it. Without Kerbals The Tundra Mobile Workshop and the Assembly plant can produce Machinery/MaterialKits only at 5 % of their capacity!

I was wondering if there is anything short of a Kerbal that can speed things up? Are there some sort of Bonuses that can boost my production output?

I understand that automated production at full speed would be quite unbalanced - but a rate of 5% is a bit too meager in my opinion.

 

[sh1pman]

3 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Hi!

I wanted to do something new and  Instead of going the usual "Kerbals do everything" route, I wanted to rely on automation as much as possible.

My plan is to send a small-ish ship in advance that uses local resources to produce a stock of MaterialKits and Machinery, and only *then* send my Kerbals in to finish and inhabit the base.

The new Material Processing units are great for that. However, it's a bit slow to produce anything useful out of it. Without Kerbals The Tundra Mobile Workshop and the Assembly plant can produce Machinery/MaterialKits only at 5 % of their capacity!

I was wondering if there is anything short of a Kerbal that can speed things up? Are there some sort of Bonuses that can boost my production output?

I understand that automated production at full speed would be quite unbalanced - but a rate of 5% is a bit too meager in my opinion.

 

Maybe efficiency parts can help. Not sure though.

[Kobymaru]

Which efficiency parts?

[voicey99]

14 minutes ago, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

btw, how much levels can i level up crew with the academy module? i've got one level 5 engineer and 11 level 2's (now level 3)

You can get up to one star on Kerbin, two anywhere in space and three stars landed somewhere that's not Kerbin per attendee. The XP cap depends on the skill of the instructor kerbals, but I'm not sure how.

6 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

The new Material Processing units are great for that. However, it's a bit slow to produce anything useful out of it. Without Kerbals The Tundra Mobile Workshop and the Assembly plant can produce Machinery/MaterialKits only at 5 % of their capacity!

I was wondering if there is anything short of a Kerbal that can speed things up? Are there some sort of Bonuses that can boost my production output?

There are no automated parts for producing tertiary resources, but you can use efficiency parts for that. The best ones can be installed on MPUs and, owing to how MPUs work, their effect is not affected by lack of crew.

Edited December 7, 2017 by voicey99

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

Uhh yeah, can i somehow fix this or?

[RoverDude]

7 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Hi!

I wanted to do something new and  Instead of going the usual "Kerbals do everything" route, I wanted to rely on automation as much as possible.

My plan is to send a small-ish ship in advance that uses local resources to produce a stock of MaterialKits and Machinery, and only *then* send my Kerbals in to finish and inhabit the base.

The new Material Processing units are great for that. However, it's a bit slow to produce anything useful out of it. Without Kerbals The Tundra Mobile Workshop and the Assembly plant can produce Machinery/MaterialKits only at 5 % of their capacity!

I was wondering if there is anything short of a Kerbal that can speed things up? Are there some sort of Bonuses that can boost my production output?

I understand that automated production at full speed would be quite unbalanced - but a rate of 5% is a bit too meager in my opinion.

 

You're going to have to do some serious part spamming, since the 5% is there by design for more complex operations.  You will probably find it more efficient to do the life support chain first and send Kerbals, or drop off a ton of MatKits.

2 minutes ago, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

Uhh yeah, can i somehow fix this or?

 

Fix what?

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

Uhh yeah, can i somehow fix this or?

<schnip>

Fix what? It's dark (just warp to morning) and there's a load of UI in the way.

p.s. you can use KSP's screenshotter with F1 to take screenshots without enabling the aero overlay (or rebind the key to do that...).

[sh1pman]

9 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Which efficiency parts?

Try a 2.5m tundra workshop set to [workshop] mode. Don’t know if it will work uncrewed though.

@RoverDude will it work?

Edited December 7, 2017 by sh1pman

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

Just now, voicey99 said:

Fix what? It's dark (just warp to morning) and there's a load of UI in the way.

p.s. you can use KSP's screenshotter with F1 to take screenshots without enabling the aero overlay (or rebind the key to do that...).

Look in the UI, my agricultural support module says it cant produce water because water is full, but there is literally nothing in the tank...

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

Look in the UI, my agricultural support module says it cant produce water because water is full, but there is literally nothing in the tank...

Hm, I thought you were asking about Ore drills. Are you using KAS pipes to connect the ASM to the water storage? For whatever bizarre reason, KAS pipes don't allow the flow of water (all others are fine) across them.

Edited December 7, 2017 by voicey99

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

Hm, I thought you were asking about Ore drills. Are you using KAS pipes to connect the ASM to the water storage? For whatever bizarre reason, KAS pipes don't allow the flow of water (all others are fine) across them.

I'm using the flex o tube connected by using kis and kas, does that count?

[sh1pman]

Just now, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

I'm using the flex o tube connected by using kis and kas, does that count?

Yes, they are the same.

[RoverDude]

7 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Try a 2.5m tundra workshop set to [workshop] mode. Don’t know if it will work uncrewed though.

@RoverDude will it work?

Yes, but still 5%.  

And imagine the gif below represents complex manufacturing with Kerbals present.. Now imagine how bad it is without them.

 

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

6 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Yes, they are the same.

hmm, how do i connect the water tank to it then?

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Yes, but still 5%.  

I assume MPUs do not suffer this penalty in efficiency part mode?

Just now, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

hmm, how do i connect the water tank to it then?

Not entirely sure on how it works on the same vessel, but if you have a water tank on both sides of the tube then local logistics might take over and transferring stuff around the tube.

Edited December 7, 2017 by voicey99

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

3 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I assume MPUs do not suffer this penalty in efficiency part mode?

Not entirely sure on how it works on the same vessel, but if you have a water tank on both sides of the tube then local logistics might take over and transferring stuff around the tube.

... i don't have a water tank on the main base...  am i screwed now or can i directly attach a tank to it with kas and have it work?

[sh1pman]

11 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Yes, but still 5%.  

And imagine the gif below represents complex manufacturing with Kerbals present.. Now imagine how bad it is without them.

 

Like this!

[voicey99]

Just now, BRAAAP_STUTUTU said:

... i don't have a water tank on the main base...  am i screwed now or can i directly attach a tank to it with kas and have it work?

You can attach one with KIS, don't worry. It might look out of place, but it acts as part of the vessel - LL is a little different from normal transfer, since KSP gives you backlogged production in 6h chunks and LL can only transfer 10% of a tank's volume per chunk, so you need >60h worth of water storage on the producing side and >12h on the receiving side (since Planetary Logistics units can fill/empty to half full once per chunk, so you need 2 chunk's worth of storage).

If you have the mod OSE Workshop, you can make individual bits like this onsite.

[Kobymaru]

33 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Try a 2.5m tundra workshop set to [workshop] mode. Not know if it will work uncrewed though.

Thanks, that seems to work! With one Ranger and one Tundra Workshop set to [workshop], i get about 11-15 % production, depending on how many converters I have turned on.

 

35 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

You're going to have to do some serious part spamming, since the 5% is there by design for more complex operations.  You will probably find it more efficient to do the life support chain first and send Kerbals, or drop off a ton of MatKits.

Maybe, but I wanted to try something different for a change. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Kobymaru

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, Kobymaru said:

Thanks, that seems to work! With one Ranger and one Tundra Workshop set to [workshop]

Wow, I didn't really expect it to work. Nice!

[DoktorKrogg]

3 hours ago, voicey99 said:

Ok, I'm a bit late to the party on part breakdowns but I've just had another thought. With regards to permanent failures, perhaps they could only have a chance to occur (e.g. 50% at the next breakdown) occur if a part suffers partial failure and you choose to keep running the thing instead of shutting it down for a bit until the repairs guy can go and fix it. It would mean you can still run parts after they suffer a partial failure, but in doing so you would risk causing further, catastrophic damage to the part and justify including what would be a very frustrating scenario while not threatening players who like to stay on the safe side (unmanned bases would be particularly party to this, since they can't be automatically maintained).

Unrecoverable failure is probably not going to be a thing, at least not in the first iteration of the new wear mechanics. We're leaning toward something more along the lines of what you just described here (i.e. part will go offline until you spend the necessary resources to get it working again). If at some point in the future we made unrecoverable failure a possibility, it would definitely be a difficulty setting the player could toggle on or off (likely off by default) and it would only be a consequence of habitual neglect, not just a random event. In other words, it should always be preventable. It would only happen if you chose to risk it. I would also want there to be some kind of advantage to be gained by taking that risk. I currently don't have an answer for what that could be though. So that's another reason I don't expect we'll be including permadeath as an option at this point. I still like it conceptually just because I think it would increase the entertainment value of people's Twitch streams  but we need to have a better justification for it than that.

4 hours ago, toric5 said:

Would it be possible to further integrate this with things from USI-LS (life support recyclers, the really basic greenhouses) and stock modules (stock and third party drills and convers)? I really dotn like how the USI drills and converters need maintenance, but my ISRU magic rock distillery somehow can run forever.

Yes.

[WuphonsReach]

Question on the KSP 6 hour periods catch-up mechanic, as it applies to electricity (EC) consumption.

If I have a craft that consumes 80 EC/s with an USI 1.25m reactor producing more than 80 EC/s, how much battery capacity should I have on the vessel in order to keep things running during the catch-up phase that happens during (and just after) physics loading?

I'm sure the answer is not 6 hours or 12 hours worth, but not sure how many seconds or minutes to plan for.  Or whether KSP just calculates "do you have enough generation capacity at this instant" and assumes the batteries are always full during each 6-hour period until it catches up.  But then there's still, I think, the weirdness that can happen during physics load of a scene where having some EC storage keeps oddities from happening with EC generators (like reactors).

 

 

[voicey99]

2 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

Question on the KSP 6 hour periods catch-up mechanic, as it applies to electricity (EC) consumption.

If I have a craft that consumes 80 EC/s with an USI 1.25m reactor producing more than 80 EC/s, how much battery capacity should I have on the vessel in order to keep things running during the catch-up phase that happens during (and just after) physics loading?

I'm sure the answer is not 6 hours or 12 hours worth, but not sure how many seconds or minutes to plan for.  Or whether KSP just calculates "do you have enough generation capacity at this instant" and assumes the batteries are always full during each 6-hour period until it catches up.  But then there's still, I think, the weirdness that can happen during physics load of a scene where having some EC storage keeps oddities from happening with EC generators (like reactors).

KSP doesn't care about EC during catchup. If you're transferring power from vessel to vessel via power couplers, you should have 10s of the total required transfer rate per second, but if it's on the same vessel you would be fine with any amount of storage. I have to say your power margin is uncomfortably thin, though.

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

10 hours ago, voicey99 said:

You can attach one with KIS, don't worry. It might look out of place, but it acts as part of the vessel - LL is a little different from normal transfer, since KSP gives you backlogged production in 6h chunks and LL can only transfer 10% of a tank's volume per chunk, so you need >60h worth of water storage on the producing side and >12h on the receiving side (since Planetary Logistics units can fill/empty to half full once per chunk, so you need 2 chunk's worth of storage).

If you have the mod OSE Workshop, you can make individual bits like this onsite.

COuld i also attach a water tank with a klaw? (advanced grabbing unit)