totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[lBoBl]

I'm still having the same issue of the game freezing when I try to build a craft with the orbital shipyard.

I had managed to launch it last time by reorienting the shipyard craft and removing a part from the ship I want to build. But the ship had an aerodynamics problem since the root part was a cargo bay, parts inside that cargo bay generated drag when they weren't supposed to (that's a stock bug apparently). So I re-rooted the craft and reverted to a save I had made prior to building it. And the freeze is back again, when I click on build I go to the loading screen and get stuck there forever. Here's the log file, I've put a comment when the ship is launched you can search the keyword "SEARCHME" to get there quickly. 

There are so many vague error codes that I can't make anything of it. Hope someone more clever might find what causes the problem.

Edit : I can confirm that just re-rooting the craft allows me to launch it once again. Here's an issue that's going to be hard to reproduce without any other mods

Edited May 6, 2021 by lBoBl

[Yuubari_]

Not sure if this is the right threat or not but I have some weirdness with the disassembling of parts on my scrapping/assembling station, it doesn't seem to store the material kits from it

I might be missing something ^^" or it is just some weirdness

[modus]

The most obvious question is: do you have a container for matkits?

[Yuubari_]

It would be kinda dumb if I hadn't xd

Those huge parts with the solar panels attached, they are matkits storage ^^ 

And also have local logistics enabled 

[Tabris]

1 hour ago, Yuubari_ said:

It would be kinda dumb if I hadn't xd

Those huge parts with the solar panels attached, they are matkits storage ^^ 

And also have local logistics enabled 

You need to check if they have the USI_warehouse (i think) or USI_Recycleable Module. they might be able to store MatKits but are unable to accept the "recycled" Matkits

[Yuubari_]

14 hours ago, Tabris said:

You need to check if they have the USI_warehouse (i think) or USI_Recycleable Module. they might be able to store MatKits but are unable to accept the "recycled" Matkits

I will look into this when I am home, where can I find it ?

[Terwin]

29 minutes ago, Yuubari_ said:

I will look into this when I am home, where can I find it ?

Those would be modules on the part config.

They can also be added by module manager scripts.

[modus]

17 hours ago, Yuubari_ said:

It would be kinda dumb if I hadn't xd

You don't want to know how many times stuff like that happens to me so just thought I'd ask

[rudemario]

On 5/6/2021 at 9:52 AM, Grimmas said:

I have a few:

1) Make sure you can reliably reproduce it in a stock (vanilla) KSP install (latest version) with the pre-release constellation from Github. This is a pre-requisite for the below steps. I would also try adding way more hab time than needed, try 2x or something.

2) As it is an issue with USI-LS you could try asking in the USI-LS thread.

3) If you are technically inclined you could try to debug the issue yourself. This is the fastest way to fix your issue but also the most involved.

4) If you are not technically inclined, or simply can't be bothered, then I would suggest opening an issue on USI-LS github repo. Attach screenshots, log files, reproduction steps, etc. But I would not count on a quick turn-around time. 

1) I was able to get it to reliably reproduce on KSP version 1.10.1 with MKS 1.3.0 and USI-LS 1.3.0. I did not yet test it on 1.11, but will.

2) USI-LS does not activate the home/hab feature without MKS installed because there are no ColonySupplies or converters with which to consume them to roll back those timers. That's why I posted in the MKS thread.

3) I am not very familiar with the language this is written in, neither am I very good at code in general, but enough that I can understand that the feature is very clearly present on the line you listed in the source.

Another observation I noticed was when the hab time remaining ticker counts down, for every 30 days of the in game T- mission clock, the hab time remaining ticker goes down years worth. At an orbit of 84 km it advances 2-3 days for almost every orbit, and I believe an orbit is only a few hours at that altitude. This was also confirmed on bone stock KSP so this doesn't have anything to do with switching to Earth days and not Kerbin days.

So, I have a question then, as this looks like a bug that might never get fixed since it's in an outdated version.

Does the 1.11 release 1.4.0/1.4.1 of MKS work for KSP 1.10.1? That would solve all of my issues I believe once I confirm this is no longer on issue on 1.4.0/1.4.1 of MKS. (Event Horizon is throwing a wrench in being able to update no-brainer style)

Thanks!

[Grimmas]

You want to test this using KSP 1.11.2 and USI pre-release from here. MKS/USI-LS 1.3 and 1.4 as well as KSP 1.10 are already ancient history, you're on your own with those to be honest. It may well be that you ran into a bug that's been fixed already, in which case you'd have to backport the fix to the older USI-LS version if you want to keep using KSP 1.10. 

[rudemario]

4 minutes ago, Grimmas said:

You want to test this using KSP 1.11.2 and USI pre-release from here. MKS/USI-LS 1.3 and 1.4 as well as KSP 1.10 are already ancient history, you're on your own with those to be honest. It may well be that you ran into a bug that's been fixed already, in which case you'd have to backport the fix to the older USI-LS version if you want to keep using KSP 1.10. 

I had no idea there was a separate branch of MKS called "Constellation", it's not on the https://umbraspaceindustries.github.io/UmbraSpaceIndustries/ page anywhere so I wasn't even aware it was a separate thing. I thought the mentions of "Constellation" was a name denoting a new version, similar to Androids approach to naming their versions KitKat, Marshmallow, Nougat, etc.

What is Constellation? I thought MKS was already a pack of relevant mods. I see Constellation goes back many years, is it some form of definitive bundle of mods? How does it differ from MKS?

Thanks!

[Grimmas]

If you look closely, it's the first link on that page you linked. It's like a modpack with all of the USI mods and dependencies in one download. The latest pre-release is a 'beta' version from March and is the latest version you can get right now, short of cloning the individual project repositories and compiling everything yourself.

[Kerbals_of_Steel]

Just now, rudemario said:

I had no idea there was a separate branch of MKS called "Constellation", it's not on the https://umbraspaceindustries.github.io/UmbraSpaceIndustries/ page anywhere so I wasn't even aware it was a separate thing. I thought the mentions of "Constellation" was a name denoting a new version, similar to Androids approach to naming their versions KitKat, Marshmallow, Nougat, etc.

What is Constellation? I thought MKS was already a pack of relevant mods. I see Constellation goes back many years, is it some form of definitive bundle of mods? How does it differ from MKS?

Thanks!

The Constellation download is ALL of the USI mods, including MKS, USI life support, half a dozen different rovers, sounding rockets, and a whole heap of other parts.

KoS

[Yuubari_]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:08 PM, Terwin said:

Those would be modules on the part config.

They can also be added by module manager scripts.

Sorry for my extremely slow reply, but it seems that the parts I am using are supported by the config (I think that's what it says)

Edit: as it turns out after repainting one of the usi kontainers, it works fine now, so it was the part that was being funky ^^

On 5/7/2021 at 6:06 PM, modus said:

You don't want to know how many times stuff like that happens to me so just thought I'd ask

I got you xd Sometimes it simply are the simplest explanations ^^

Edited May 8, 2021 by Yuubari_

[rudemario]

4 hours ago, Grimmas said:

If you look closely, it's the first link on that page you linked. It's like a modpack with all of the USI mods and dependencies in one download. The latest pre-release is a 'beta' version from March and is the latest version you can get right now, short of cloning the individual project repositories and compiling everything yourself.

4 hours ago, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

The Constellation download is ALL of the USI mods, including MKS, USI life support, half a dozen different rovers, sounding rockets, and a whole heap of other parts.

KoS

Thanks for clearing things up guys, I appreciate it. The link was so small and wasn't highlighted in the main mod headings I didn't realize it was a thing.

 

4 hours ago, Grimmas said:

You want to test this using KSP 1.11.2 and USI pre-release from here. MKS/USI-LS 1.3 and 1.4 as well as KSP 1.10 are already ancient history, you're on your own with those to be honest. It may well be that you ran into a bug that's been fixed already, in which case you'd have to backport the fix to the older USI-LS version if you want to keep using KSP 1.10. 

So, I went ahead and conducted some testing.

Here, you can see I am on KSP version 1.11.2

These are all of the mod versions I've tested so far:

As you can see I've tried the 1.3 versions 1.4 versions, December's Constellation, and March's latest pre-release Constellation. 1.3 and 1.4 were on 1.10, and both the December and the latest pre-release March Constellation was tested on the above KSP Version 1.11.2 as recommended to me.

I conducted the test as follows:

1. Download a new 1.11.2 version from Steam.

2. Launch the game.

3. Close the game, add the Constellation pack.

4. Re-open the game, start a new sandbox save.

5. Build a ship using a 3.25 Kerbitat, 4 Inflated Ranger Habitation modules configured to reach 72 years of Hab, a recycler, 3 Kerbals, 2 Nom o Matics, 4 Gigantor solar panels (Craft file will be in save file I am uploading)

6. Send vessel to launchpad and Set Orbit cheat into Orbit around Kerbin.

Now, from here, I will outline a new finding I noticed.

See this photo here and the three areas of interest:

This is the result when no converters are activated. As you can see, in number 1, it shows I warped 58 days and 2.5 hours from mission start. In number 2 you can see the Vessel Hab has 60 days and has not counted down one single day, and then in number 3 you can see the Kerbals after warping have 1 day and 3 hours left before their 60 days are up. This is all normal and expected behaviour.

This was a new finding. I figured I'd give it a shot, and so it turns out that there's something going on with the parts specifically, since everything is fine when no converters are turned on. More on that later.

So, now onto the normal issue at hand. I will revert the launch and re-set my orbit, and then activate all of my converters, solar panels, nom o matics and my recycler, etc.

See here:

Here, you can see a "clean slate" before I begin timewarping. This time, all 4 of my Rangers are turned on, and so is my Kerbitat, granting me 72 years and 155d of Vessel Hab time. Also, because this value is over 50 years, both Bill and Bob now also have indefinite time.

Now, based on what we saw in the last photo, we should see the Vessel Hab time in location 2 not decrease a single day, and the timescale should remain 1:1 with the MET timer in the top left.

So, what happens when we fast forward?

Here:

Here, you can see that we've fast forwarded 1 year and 70 days in the MET timer in location 1. However, in location 2, it says we've fast forwarded just shy of 20 years. In location 3, however, it still states we are indefinite. Our hab timers for our Kerbals should stop them from succumbing to home or hab.

So, first issue. Our 1:1 timescale is gone. Hab is decreasing when it didn't before now that we've turned our converters on.

Okay, now what happens when we fast forward some more so that the hab timer falls below the 50 year mark?

So, now, we've fast forwarded 1 year and 102 days. Our Vessel Hab time has dropped to 49 years, that's a total of 23 years in only 1 year and 102 days. Now our Kerbals hab/home timers have decreased beyond 50 years and are no longer indefinite, seen in position 3. This could mean that the Vessel Hab time itself is decreasing and not the Kerbal's timers? This would explain why the Kerbals are being brought below the 50 year mark and losing their indefinite status even if the code mentioned earlier seems present and functional.

So, 1 year is 20 years in the hab time with converters on, even when with converters off things behaved normally? And our Vessel Hab Time capacity itself seems to be lowering, which is why our Kerbals are losing their indefinite status?

So, I decided to revert and try fast forwarding with different combinations of converters being turned on

This is what I noticed:

1. I noticed if I turn on 0 converters the hab time at the Vessel Hab Timer (location 2)  doesn't move at all and the Kerbal timers count down like intended.
2. If I turn on one hab-common converter then the hab time begins ticking down slowly and the kerbal timers go faster?
3. If I turn on one hab-common converter and one hab-quarters converter things reach a point where the timer ticks down faster than the days in the MET timer in the top left (faster than Kerbal days)

This all leads me to believe there might be an issue with the Ranger habitat modules? Or something wrong with converters nobody has noticed over the years?

This issue is present on MKS and USI 1.3, 1.4, December's Constellation and March's Constellation on KSP Versions 1.11.2 and 1.10.1.

Could this be something that's been missed out for a long time? Because on a freshly downloaded 1.11.2, with a fresh deployment of March's constellation with no other mods, and a new sandbox mode with a new ship built from scratch the issue is still present.

Here is a link to a dropbox that includes the craft file as well as a KSP.log of me turning the game on, launching the ship on the pad, launching the ship into orbit with the Set Orbit cheat, turning on all my converters and fast forwarding until indefinite disappears.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qdxbyjs9n8ablt5/AADdEPo_-DoGn-nlqN1iCJWba?dl=0

Something is going on here.

[dlrk]

Some questions I've been trying to understand before launching my first MKS colony (after years of having it installed lol)

What are Kolony Rewards? How are they generated and retrieved?

With regard to WOLF, the parts disappear once dropped anywhere in the biome? And how are transport credits generated (I gather they represent fuel, spacecraft components, etc)?

Edited May 9, 2021 by dlrk

[notthebobo]

6 hours ago, dlrk said:

Some questions I've been trying to understand before launching my first MKS colony (after years of having it installed lol)

What are Kolony Rewards? How are they generated and retrieved?

With regard to WOLF, the parts disappear once dropped anywhere in the biome? And how are transport credits generated (I gather they represent fuel, spacecraft components, etc)?

The Wiki may be outdated in some areas but is still a good place to start:

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/The-Kolonization-Dashboard#kolony-statistics
https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Functions-(Logistics)#orbital-logistics-within-a-sphere-of-influence

[modus]

7 hours ago, dlrk said:

Some questions I've been trying to understand before launching my first MKS colony (after years of having it installed lol)

Welcome in MKS wonderland!

7 hours ago, dlrk said:

With regard to WOLF, the parts disappear once dropped anywhere in the biome? And how are transport credits generated (I gather they represent fuel, spacecraft components, etc)?

This question has been asked a few times on the last few pages, you might wanna check those. 

And as said, the wiki.

[dlrk]

To double check, is configurable containers a dependency? If yes, can I remove the CC configs for parts outside of MKS?

Edited May 9, 2021 by dlrk

[dlrk]

So, looking at the wiki, and the tech tree, I'm really confused about WOLF (though it's clearly pretty cool). Some parts don't come up until advanced colonization, which makes sense, but a lot come up fairly early at advanced science tech. Can those be used earlier?

[RoverDude]

4 hours ago, dlrk said:

So, looking at the wiki, and the tech tree, I'm really confused about WOLF (though it's clearly pretty cool). Some parts don't come up until advanced colonization, which makes sense, but a lot come up fairly early at advanced science tech. Can those be used earlier?

We'll be giving the whole tree a once-over - the early bits are mostly there to support electric rover routes and MKS support

[Terwin]

On 5/8/2021 at 6:48 PM, rudemario said:

So, I decided to revert and try fast forwarding with different combinations of converters being turned on

This is what I noticed:

1. I noticed if I turn on 0 converters the hab time at the Vessel Hab Timer (location 2)  doesn't move at all and the Kerbal timers count down like intended.
2. If I turn on one hab-common converter then the hab time begins ticking down slowly and the kerbal timers go faster?
3. If I turn on one hab-common converter and one hab-quarters converter things reach a point where the timer ticks down faster than the days in the MET timer in the top left (faster than Kerbal days)

This all leads me to believe there might be an issue with the Ranger habitat modules? Or something wrong with converters nobody has noticed over the years?

Most USI converters slowly consume machinery and loose efficiency based on how much machinery remains.

If you have excess machinery, you can place an engineer in an assembly(?) module and have them re-fill the machinery in the converters with automated daily maintenance.

Alternately, you can turn off machinery consumption in the settings(effectively switching to MKS light).

At the very least turning off machinery consumption should allow you to verify that this is the source of your unexpected efficiency losses. 

[rudemario]

4 hours ago, Terwin said:

Most USI converters slowly consume machinery and loose efficiency based on how much machinery remains.

If you have excess machinery, you can place an engineer in an assembly(?) module and have them re-fill the machinery in the converters with automated daily maintenance.

Alternately, you can turn off machinery consumption in the settings(effectively switching to MKS light).

At the very least turning off machinery consumption should allow you to verify that this is the source of your unexpected efficiency losses. 

So, I decided to give this a shot.

I turned the Machinery Wear Amount from the 0.000001~ number to 0, turning it off. Then, I launched my test again, making sure every converter was full with the 200 machinery required.

As you can see in position 1, it has been zero days and I have 72 years and 313 days on this ship.

After fast forwarding a bit after launching and turning all converters on:

As you can see here, it's been 3 days in the MET timer, and in the life support status we are now down to 72 years and 298 days. That's 15 days of Hab in only 3 MET days. As you can see, with Machinery wear disabled, my machinery is still at the 200 value, due to no wear.

So, this issue is with the parts themselves and not with the machinery wearing.

[rudemario]

9 minutes ago, rudemario said:

As you can see here, it's been 3 days in the MET timer, and in the life support status we are now down to 72 years and 298 days. That's 15 days of Hab in only 3 MET days. As you can see, with Machinery wear disabled, my machinery is still at the 200 value, due to no wear.

So, this issue is with the parts themselves and not with the machinery wearing.

Furthering this point, I noticed that on my 3.75m Kerbitat, if I enable it, my hab time doesn't decrease, like it's supposed to.

So with the Kerbitat converter the bug doesn't happen, but with the Ranger Habitat module converter it does...hmm....

[dlrk]

10 hours ago, RoverDude said:

We'll be giving the whole tree a once-over - the early bits are mostly there to support electric rover routes and MKS support

Sounds good. If ideas are helpful/welcome, on my install, I'm moving the WOLF depots, 275 hoppers and transporter to advLogistics, the 275 WOLF harvesters to advOffwordMining 375 WOLF harvesters to resourceexploitation. I'll send a PR when I'm done, in case it looks good.

Edited May 10, 2021 by dlrk