totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[PavelKCZ]

Ahh soo. Thx. Time to send a new station to Minimus

 

[modus]

Welcome to MKS!

[PavelKCZ]

Ehm yes.

 

But why ????

 

In ship transfer of everything seems so logical...

 

But anyway, the station is working now .

Of course, I forgot to attach the thermal radiator, but it is a minor problem which I know how to solve next time.

[RoverDude]

25 minutes ago, PavelKCZ said:

Ehm yes.

 

But why ????

 

In ship transfer of everything seems so logical...

 

But anyway, the station is working now .

Of course, I forgot to attach the thermal radiator, but it is a minor problem which I know how to solve next time.

Because you have to have all of the ingredients available to do a recipe.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Nice, with thermal radiators, my fourth automatic drill-convert station is working automatically and preparing Fertiliser for incoming Kerbals, which will land (at least I hope so)  in a huge base/station/something. I just hope that it will be possible to land all those 60 tons on Minimus...

 

[RookFett]

2 hours ago, PavelKCZ said:

Nice, with thermal radiators, my fourth automatic drill-convert station is working automatically and preparing Fertiliser for incoming Kerbals, which will land (at least I hope so)  in a huge base/station/something. I just hope that it will be possible to land all those 60 tons on Minimus...

 

Everything is possible with enough delta v

3 hours ago, PavelKCZ said:

Ehm yes.

 

But why ????

 

In ship transfer of everything seems so logical...

 

But anyway, the station is working now .

Of course, I forgot to attach the thermal radiator, but it is a minor problem which I know how to solve next time.

I would also point out that MKS and stock for that matter does not do any processing/mining/making till you are at that location.  So you must plan for X amount of storage for everything, so when it does catch up mechanics when you go to that base/statio/ship, you won’t hit any snags.    

Most people give at least a  6 to 12 hour window of storage, calculate what you need in that time by looking at the rates, then figure how much storage you will need.   Also applies to power, cooling, anything that has a rate basically.    

The PAW of each component will tell you exactly what it needs to get the job done.

[JamesonKerbal]

24 minutes ago, RookFett said:

I would also point out that MKS and stock for that matter does not do any processing/mining/making till you are at that location.  So you must plan for X amount of storage for everything, so when it does catch up mechanics when you go to that base/statio/ship, you won’t hit any snags.  

My understanding is that this limitation of the resources and activity system in KSP was one of the primary motivators for development of WOLF in the first place:

1. Any sufficiently complex production line is going to require hundreds of parts (solar panels, nuclear reactors, radiators, landing legs or other suspension, resource bins, kerbals) meaning that loading the scene will take a long time and kraken attacks become more likely over time (load a scene, suddenly half your production facility launches itself into space because one of the parts clipped into the ground by one millimetre)
2. As per above you need to load the production facility into physics range at some point to ensure that "produced" resources are actually produced, stored into resource bins, and available for later parts of the production chain to consume
3. As you get more bases deployed in more places your entire game is simply loading production facility after production facility just to have the resources available to build your comfortably sized flying cities

 

[modus]

That sounds about right

[RoverDude]

19 minutes ago, JamesonKerbal said:

My understanding is that this limitation of the resources and activity system in KSP was one of the primary motivators for development of WOLF in the first place:

1. Any sufficiently complex production line is going to require hundreds of parts (solar panels, nuclear reactors, radiators, landing legs or other suspension, resource bins, kerbals) meaning that loading the scene will take a long time and kraken attacks become more likely over time (load a scene, suddenly half your production facility launches itself into space because one of the parts clipped into the ground by one millimetre)
2. As per above you need to load the production facility into physics range at some point to ensure that "produced" resources are actually produced, stored into resource bins, and available for later parts of the production chain to consume
3. As you get more bases deployed in more places your entire game is simply loading production facility after production facility just to have the resources available to build your comfortably sized flying cities

 

Yep.  the downside is it puts you outside of the stock chain (which is temporally coupled).  the plus is that it's really really good for giant multi-body and multi-installation chains.  And with hoppers as the faucet, it dovetails pretty well.

[wasmic]

Okay, so I haven't been following along here for a while, and now I see something called WOLF being mentioned everywhere. What exactly is that? Is there a thread for it where I can read more?

[Terwin]

38 minutes ago, wasmic said:

Okay, so I haven't been following along here for a while, and now I see something called WOLF being mentioned everywhere. What exactly is that? Is there a thread for it where I can read more?

This is the thread where you could read back and find out all about it(just search each page for 'WOLF' and you should find out lots about it)

Summary:

WOLF is an approach to add infrastructure outside of the part-based simulation of the game.  (ie no more kraken-bait bases that need to be visited every few days for catch-up processing so it can supply your main base)

Functionalities include:

mining

manufacturing

inter-base transportation of both resources and kerbals

Pulling resources or manufactured goods out of WOLF and into the active simulation using hoppers

 

note: once something is added to WOLF it cannot be pulled back out.  This includes Kerbals(which are converted to points based on the number of stars they have(engineer points, kolonist points, mechanic points, etc))

Most WOLF parts are near the end of the stock and community tech trees.

[wasmic]

Ah, thank you. That does sound like an interesting solution. Though I do like to have my kerbals run around...

Well, I'll have to give it a go when the official update for the mod comes out.

[g_BonE]

On 10/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, RookFett said:

It's a beautiful thing to see!   Thanks for fixing this - was driving me slightly crazy.... (and believe me, it was a short drive)

Now on to more testing...

Please do tell how You got this to work. I have two terminals connected, one at KSC and one in LKO. When trying to ferry Kerbals from KSC to LKO it keeps telling me "vessel too small". What am i missing? Also using the fairly recent BleedingEdge2 rerease of MKS.

[Tacombel]

7 hours ago, wasmic said:

Okay, so I haven't been following along here for a while, and now I see something called WOLF being mentioned everywhere. What exactly is that? Is there a thread for it where I can read more?

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/WOLF-—-some-useful-tips

[RookFett]

4 hours ago, g_BonE said:

Please do tell how You got this to work. I have two terminals connected, one at KSC and one in LKO. When trying to ferry Kerbals from KSC to LKO it keeps telling me "vessel too small". What am i missing? Also using the fairly recent BleedingEdge2 rerease of MKS.

Where are you seeing that message?  Screenshot would help.  The only time I remember seeing that message is when the transport vehicle didn’t have a wolf passenger container on it when making the route with the transport computer.

I just made two wolf terminals, with power hub, and connected them to biomes wolf depot.   Once that was done, I added the routes using electric rovers (no Transport Credit cost) - that had the transport computer and one of the wolf transport containers.    once  I established them, I move my test subjects, I mean passengers, into the wolf terminal part, open the terminal window and selected the route.

if you made the routes to LKO you would need the needed TC to make the route, then the process is the same.

Economy is for working kerbals, deluxe for civies.

 

 

7 hours ago, wasmic said:

Ah, thank you. That does sound like an interesting solution. Though I do like to have my kerbals run around...

Well, I'll have to give it a go when the official update for the mod comes out.

You still can!
Wolf just stops you from needing 100s of small base to make stuff with MKS.  Now, with proper planning, you can do all the backend plumbing off screen, and have just one major base on each planet, and one in orbit, using the wolf hoppers to pull the stuff out of the backend.

so your save file will be much smaller, and makes the game run faster. 

[g_BonE]

Reporting a couple of missing textures in BE2, PackRat seat and SAS modules, screenshot:

Going to check out the Kerbal taxiing feature in a freshly started sabdbox game now. Hoper i can wrap my head around on how to get this working

[g_BonE]

Success! Here is a step by step on kerbal transportation:

1: establish a depot in each biome deemed a destination
2: connect a life support and a habitation module to each depot
3: park a terminal in each biome where a depot was established and also connect it to the depot
4: have a vessel with a crew cargo container and transport computer and drive it to your starting terminal
5: record route from starting to destination terminal, check if it shows up in the "crew transfers" window
6: drive a few kerbals to the terminal you want them to depart from, have them be in EVA or inside the terminal part
7: choose a "flight" and select them ---> DONE!

However, even tho both terminals are only 2km apart (for this test) they still take 6 hours to travel from source to destination terminal which is a little strange. Maybe there is a setting to be tweaked or a config to be changed about that? Other then that im pretty happy and thinking of implementing what i learned to get them Kerbs from Bop to Kerbin and back in my main save game.

Great job @RoverDude !

Edited October 7, 2021 by g_BonE

[PavelKCZ]

Hmm, I must be really stupid or something had changed.

 

When I am trying to fill a container with various EVA items for the colony, I can stuff screwdrivers, inflatable storage modules etc.

But I am not able to stuff in those "FlexoTubes". It seems that one FlexoTube takes 700 litres of volume space and also those tubes do not stack. But when I was looking at several YT videos, it seems that those tubes should stack and the volume should be MUCH lower, because peoples are putting 8 or 10 of those tubes in containers.

I even tried to edit some .cfg files here and there but it seems that I am not able to find a parameter which I can tweak to correct this.

 

Anyone knows how to fix this ?

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by PavelKCZ

[Kerbals_of_Steel]

4 hours ago, PavelKCZ said:

Hmm, I must be really stupid or something had changed.

 

When I am trying to fill a container with various EVA items for the colony, I can stuff screwdrivers, inflatable storage modules etc.

But I am not able to stuff in those "FlexoTubes". It seems that one FlexoTube takes 700 litres of volume space and also those tubes do not stack. But when I was looking at several YT videos, it seems that those tubes should stack and the volume should be MUCH lower, because peoples are putting 8 or 10 of those tubes in containers.

I even tried to edit some .cfg files here and there but it seems that I am not able to find a parameter which I can tweak to correct this.

 

Anyone knows how to fix this ?

 

Firstly, the Flex-o-Tubes are obsolescent parts that are only being retained to prevent established bases from being unusable. They are terribly glitchy and good Kraken bait, it's best to not use them at all.

Secondly, yes, things have changed. The smaller volume and stacking comes from using the Kerbal Inventory System mod, which used to be the only way to do EVA repair and building. It's been replaced with the stock 1.11 "Some Assembly Required" system, which is incompatible with KIS due to system limitations. Any parts that can be used in KIS cannot be stored in the stock system, and vice versa. Each system is also balanced entirely differently with regards to volume and mass constraints as well as stacking options.  It's possible to de-convert the new USI mods back to KIS compatibility, but it's not for the faint of heart, and frankly a bad idea.

 

KoS

[PavelKCZ]

I understand. So, what is the "modern way" to put MKS base parts together ? Let's say I want to connect several "Duna" modules together at Minimus.

 

[modus]

I think - but I might be wrong - the 'modern way' is not to connect them but use logistics.

Or do you mean connect Hab parts?

[PavelKCZ]

Let's say that I have (for example) several Duna modules (habitat with cupola, agriculture module, logistics and PDU) at Minimus. Those modules are separated, because they was moved to almost the same spot at Minimus during several flights.

And now, I want to connect them together, so they can share electricity, supplies and space). What part should I use to connect them together to share space and lenghten the maximum time of "habitation time" ?

 

[RoverDude]

No need to connect them, since if they all have resource storage, stuff can be shared.  Hab space is also shared automatically.

[Tacombel]

6 hours ago, PavelKCZ said:

I understand. So, what is the "modern way" to put MKS base parts together ? Let's say I want to connect several "Duna" modules together at Minimus.

 

Also 

Probably not up to date but a good start. 

And as Roverdude remarks, keep bases small and in not connected sections leveraging local logistics and WOLF.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Tacombel

[g_BonE]

What determines a vessel being "too small" to establish a transport route? I have a colossus of 85tons sitting on the launchpad but the transport computer still gives me this message?

Edited October 8, 2021 by g_BonE