totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[ninenineninefour]

How do you use construction? I have a base set up and want to start mining stuff so I can build ships, but even in sandbox mode I'm not seeing any functions to build craft with...

[darthgently]

5 minutes ago, ninenineninefour said:

How do you use construction? I have a base set up and want to start mining stuff so I can build ships, but even in sandbox mode I'm not seeing any functions to build craft with.

You need an engineer on EVA and then press "i" (I think) or click the construction icon in the menu bar. I can't remember what it looks like, but it should be obvious with little trial and error.  If you actually want to build parts/craft from scratch you'll need a mod like Extraplanetary Launchpads

Edited January 17, 2023 by darthgently

[ninenineninefour]

9 minutes ago, darthgently said:

You need an engineer on EVA and then press "i" (I think) or click the construction icon in the menu bar. I can't remember what it looks like, but it should be obvious with little trial and error.  If you actually want to build parts/craft from scratch you'll need a mod like Extraplanetary Launchpads

Doesn't it have Ground Construction built in? Or am I missing something?

[darthgently]

7 hours ago, ninenineninefour said:

Doesn't it have Ground Construction built in? Or am I missing something?

I really don't know what you are asking.  If you have the parts you can build stuff by putting them together in stock on a surface or on orbit.  You might be thinking of the ground anchor part for attaching things to the ground, but you need to bring that with you.   If you want to manufacturer parts you'll need a mod. 

 

 

 

 

[JamesonKerbal]

11 hours ago, ninenineninefour said:

Doesn't it have Ground Construction built in? Or am I missing something?

Ground Construction is no longer included in MKS. It's still maintained separately so you can use it in addition to MKS.

The parts you're looking for in MKS are the KonStructor 250 and KonStructor 500 which are orbital shipyards in 2.5m and 3.75m variants. There are practical differences between the two, but they are similar in operation :

1. Get the KonStructor to orbit
2. Deposit Resources (in the Part Action Window)
   1. KonStructor 250 takes 4000 Material Kits
   2. KonStructor 500 takes 27,000 Material Kits
3. With stocks of Material Kits, Specialized Parts, Alloys, Electronics, Prototypes, Robotics and Synthetics available:
   1. "Open KonStructor" from the part action window (aka right-click menu)
   2. Select the vessel to build
   3. Build it!
4. The newly constructed vessel will appear in space within 200m of the shipyard and control will be shifted to that new vessel
5. You must load the vessel with all consumables, though it starts with 100% electricity

There are also various parts which behave as "3D printers" where you can build individual parts and then use the stock game construction tools to assemble new vehicles piece by piece.

Edited January 18, 2023 by JamesonKerbal

[Jason Kerman]

Hey guys! I'm making an simplified patch for MKS. It uses a simplified production chain and have a simplified part list. Feel free to let me know if you have any suggestions or if you are interested in working together on this small project.

 

[Shoey]

On 1/16/2023 at 7:37 PM, JamesonKerbal said:

Please forgive me if I'm trying to teach you stuff you already know but you might want to review Mark Thrimm's tutorial videos about MKS.

I keep going back to them again and again because there's always something new to learn. The episode on Logistics shows a bunch of examples of craft on the Mun using scavenging, resource distribution, planetary logistics, and orbital logistics. Being able to see the craft that Mark Thrimm built with how the inventories behave over time might help you like it helped me.

Thanks! I've got a pretty solid grip on most of it from the ingame help pages and the couple bases/stations I've set up but I'll take a look at that anyways.

[Jefferson Kerman]

Is it possible to lift Kerbals from Kerbin from the KSC biome with WOLF?  I've built several WOLF bases, even one on Ike (which took a bit of work :)), so I understand the basics.  I've got a 3.75 terminal on a rover at the edge of the launch pad, connected to the KSC biome.  Then on the launchpad, 175m away,  a craft with a crew cargo container and a transport computer.  But when I try to connect the transport computer to origin depot,  I get the "You must be within 500m of a terminal in the same biome" error.

[JamesonKerbal]

On 1/31/2023 at 5:53 AM, Jefferson Kerman said:

Is it possible to lift Kerbals from Kerbin from the KSC biome with WOLF?

Yes, but it's complicated.

You'll need the WOLF Terminal building (there are two, one is a 3.75m part with room for 6 arrivals, the other is a dome with room for 12), and then you'll need to increase the biome abundance by 1 Habitation, 1 Life Support and 1 Colony Supplies for each economy seat capacity in the route you want to build. Then you need to build the route using WOLF Crew Kontainers. When you start the route you'll reduce the abundance of habitation, life support and colony supplies at the starting biome. Then you fly to the destination biome, make sure you're close to a terminal at the other end, and connect to destination depot.

When you want to send kernels from one place to another you just make them physically present at the terminal, add them as passengers to a passenger flight (accessed through the plane-taking-off icon in the toolbar) and launch. After some time passes you can disembark at the destination terminal, but if you only have 6 arrival seats and 12 kerbals in the flight you'll have to disembark 6, move those kerbals out of the terminal to other seats in the station, then disembark the other 6. Then your passenger route UI will be borked until the next time you restart the game as the first passengers you disembark from any flight will have their names permanently stuck in the passenger list for every flight (only a display bug).

Hope that helps?

Ultimately I ended up shipping my kerbals around in rockets because passenger routes are just too much like hard work.

Edited February 1, 2023 by JamesonKerbal

[titus]

Hi.  Is the life support LIS mod bundled with this?  I tried installing MKS and LIS separately and unzipping made it seem like I was replacing the same directory.

Been playing KSP since it's earliest days in early access.  Decided to try a modded playthrough just before KSP2 drops.

Cheers

[RoverDude]

10 hours ago, titus said:

Hi.  Is the life support LIS mod bundled with this?  I tried installing MKS and LIS separately and unzipping made it seem like I was replacing the same directory.

Been playing KSP since it's earliest days in early access.  Decided to try a modded playthrough just before KSP2 drops.

Cheers

USILS is not bundled, but they do share some of the same dependencies.  As long as you nab the latest versions of both you will be good to go.

[Artificer_Drachen]

Any way to make ksp use rocket parts from EL instead of material kits and specialized parts?

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Artificer_Drachen

[JamesonKerbal]

22 hours ago, Artificer_Drachen said:

Any way to make ksp use rocket parts from EL instead of material kits and specialized parts?

AFAIK the resources required to build a part or vessel in MKS are calculated based on part mass, tech level, number of modules, etc (it's not in a config file that you can change). You might be able to use the MKS infrastructure to provide metals, but I don't know if Extraplanetary Launchpad uses the same resource types that MKS uses.

It might be worth investigating Ground Construction which is directly compatible with MKS. MKS also has its own ship construction system using orbital shipyards, and MKS supports building the DIY kits produced by Ground Construction.

 

[Gilph]

Hi,

Was looking for a config that fixes the Karibou wheels? There were some posts back in December that claimed to have fixed it, but they linked the wrong file, May I ask if someone can post? Thanks

[dlrk]

Can you connect any thing to the crew hatch/port on the Ranger Hab or Workshop in EVA construction? I tried using the flex-o-tubes but it didn't connect.

[JamesonKerbal]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:27 AM, dlrk said:

Can you connect any thing to the crew hatch/port on the Ranger Hab or Workshop in EVA construction?

I had no problem connecting things to the nodes of other Duna style modules, but I was using things other than flex-o-tubes. I avoid those because of kraken. I've previously built fancy rovers to carry modules for me -- check out Mark Thrimm's SSTO Space Program for some inspiration on the tools to manipulate base components. Note that many of the Duna and Tundra components are not able to be manipulated in stock EVA construction. I've tried modifying save files to add the ability but the modules obstinately refuse to be picked up. The cargo frame that Mark Thrimm uses in his main base construction vehicle has been quite useful for putting base pieces where I need them.

Also avoid using the PAL lifter components from USI Konstruction, they're useful if you intended to launch that component into orbit using a trebuchet though. Use KAS winches instead. You can even skip the fancy complicated base building vehicle and put the winches on the base and just tow pieces into position and glue everything together using the Konstruction docking ports. There was an addon out there somewhere that allowed welding craft together using stock docking ports. Also remember to use save games prolifically because of kraken attacks.

I've ended just building base components in one piece and dropping them from orbit:

Spoiler

Note the four vertically mounted 2.5m tanks in the "middle". Each of those has a Wolfhound engine underneath, and under that 3.75m Tundra module is a 3.75m SAS module. These engines and the SAS were adjusted to be under the centre of mass of the whole structure and landing was pretty easy. Note the application of struts between all the extremities to stop things wobbling.

This experiment is working better than my previous iterations which were more "traditional" landers:

Spoiler

Note the PDU sitting to the side, because that module refused to be moved by anything. Ground tether wasn't turned on, the legs weren't deployed, there were no extra pieces attached to it, but I couldn't move it. The original plan was to replace the nuclear reactor on top of the right-hand rocket by moving it up to the top of the right rear pillar (you can see the missing nose cone) and then up on top of the Konfabricator module. As you can see the PDU is still on the ground

Other learnings from this experience:

You can never have enough power. A 1.25m nuclear reactor is simply not enough to power a single Assembly Plant -- mine was boosted by four Ranger smelter modules, and it was hitting about 300% capacity with a 3-star Engineer operating it. With two large radiator panels you can see on the PDU to the right, they are glowing red all the time as that PDU is providing power to this assembly plant and another attempt offscreen to the right. The ship on the left is a Refinery and consumes most of the output of the PDU stuck on top and even with four radiator panels they will be glowing red all the time.

You can never have enough heat sinks. Shortly after this attempt I added large 2 large Thermal Management Systems (the triple-wide deployables) to the left-hand lander and that wasn't enough to handle the heat from the PDU.

You need to have enough spare capacity in storage containers to handle one day of production. This means if you're using Planetary Logistics each container needs to be about two to three times larger than you expect. Thus the large round containers attached to the side of the right hand rocket.

Also you can have too many containers, witness the rocket on the left with all those stow-packs close to the ground. If you have multiple containers it just makes things slower.

You can have too many logistics modules. If you have multiple vessels in one physics space, ensure that only one of them has planetary logistics turned on. Otherwise you end up with one ship pushing stuff into planetary logistics, and a second one pulling stuff out to fill that ship that just put stuff in. Not only does this cause extra load but it wastes resources because there's a "tax" on pulling stuff out of Planetary Logistics. I was producing 100-odd Material Kits per day but losing 3 Material Kits per second to out-of-control logistics hubs.

Anyway sorry about the surprise TED talk.

[blueluna]

Ugh; not a forum participant, more of a lurker; but, needs must...

I am on day 175; think realtime player. I have constructed fairly comprehensive MKS manufacturing facilities on the Mun, and encountered what I believe to be a known KSP bug: overheating on load. When I switch to my base (which takes maybe 20 seconds to load on this rig) all my components' core heat is way high; processors shut down; drill efficiency goes to zero. I have to wait for things to cool down through a crazy high number of thermal radiation parts before leaving so as to keep things humming while I'm gone. This might be tolerable, but there also exists a training and science facility within physics range that I visit with some regularity. Wondering if there are any bugfixes, workarounds, or most likely, part configuration changes I might employ to prevent/mitigate the heat spike?

My first cheap attempt was to completely remove the ModuleCoreHeat from some configs, but, duh, this also killed thermal efficiency. I can make a more thorough stripping of heat related modules from the parts; figured I'd ask first tho.

thanks

[Grimmas]

You could try replacing core heat with SystemHeat, though I don't have experience with this particular bug and can't comment whether it will also affect SystemHeat or not. And I don't think it will fix vessels in flight so those would need to be relaunched (maybe try isolated in a separate save file first). 

I do have patches to convert MKS to use SystemHeat though. As well as patches to convert MKS to B9 and a bunch of other things. 

[blueluna]

13 hours ago, Grimmas said:

You could try replacing core heat with SystemHeat

I might try that; didn't want to invest the effort in  converting the existing base just to find out it suffers the same issue.

It might be "easier" to disassemble the science facility, move it out of physics range of manufacturing, and try visiting as rarely as possible.

[dlrk]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:43 PM, JamesonKerbal said:

I had no problem connecting things to the nodes of other Duna style modules, but I was using things other than flex-o-tubes. I avoid those because of kraken. I've previously built fancy rovers to carry modules for me -- check out Mark Thrimm's SSTO Space Program for some inspiration on the tools to manipulate base components. Note that many of the Duna and Tundra components are not able to be manipulated in stock EVA construction. I've tried modifying save files to add the ability but the modules obstinately refuse to be picked up. The cargo frame that Mark Thrimm uses in his main base construction vehicle has been quite useful for putting base pieces where I need them.

Also avoid using the PAL lifter components from USI Konstruction, they're useful if you intended to launch that component into orbit using a trebuchet though. Use KAS winches instead. You can even skip the fancy complicated base building vehicle and put the winches on the base and just tow pieces into position and glue everything together using the Konstruction docking ports. There was an addon out there somewhere that allowed welding craft together using stock docking ports. Also remember to use save games prolifically because of kraken attacks.

I've ended just building base components in one piece and dropping them from orbit:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Note the four vertically mounted 2.5m tanks in the "middle". Each of those has a Wolfhound engine underneath, and under that 3.75m Tundra module is a 3.75m SAS module. These engines and the SAS were adjusted to be under the centre of mass of the whole structure and landing was pretty easy. Note the application of struts between all the extremities to stop things wobbling.

This experiment is working better than my previous iterations which were more "traditional" landers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Note the PDU sitting to the side, because that module refused to be moved by anything. Ground tether wasn't turned on, the legs weren't deployed, there were no extra pieces attached to it, but I couldn't move it. The original plan was to replace the nuclear reactor on top of the right-hand rocket by moving it up to the top of the right rear pillar (you can see the missing nose cone) and then up on top of the Konfabricator module. As you can see the PDU is still on the ground

Other learnings from this experience:

You can never have enough power. A 1.25m nuclear reactor is simply not enough to power a single Assembly Plant -- mine was boosted by four Ranger smelter modules, and it was hitting about 300% capacity with a 3-star Engineer operating it. With two large radiator panels you can see on the PDU to the right, they are glowing red all the time as that PDU is providing power to this assembly plant and another attempt offscreen to the right. The ship on the left is a Refinery and consumes most of the output of the PDU stuck on top and even with four radiator panels they will be glowing red all the time.

You can never have enough heat sinks. Shortly after this attempt I added large 2 large Thermal Management Systems (the triple-wide deployables) to the left-hand lander and that wasn't enough to handle the heat from the PDU.

You need to have enough spare capacity in storage containers to handle one day of production. This means if you're using Planetary Logistics each container needs to be about two to three times larger than you expect. Thus the large round containers attached to the side of the right hand rocket.

Also you can have too many containers, witness the rocket on the left with all those stow-packs close to the ground. If you have multiple containers it just makes things slower.

You can have too many logistics modules. If you have multiple vessels in one physics space, ensure that only one of them has planetary logistics turned on. Otherwise you end up with one ship pushing stuff into planetary logistics, and a second one pulling stuff out to fill that ship that just put stuff in. Not only does this cause extra load but it wastes resources because there's a "tax" on pulling stuff out of Planetary Logistics. I was producing 100-odd Material Kits per day but losing 3 Material Kits per second to out-of-control logistics hubs.

Anyway sorry about the surprise TED talk.

Thanks, this is extremely helpful!

[RuParker]

My first time trying to use MKS, creating a base on the Mun that uses the Planetary Logistics to pull from remote mines. When viewing the Planetary Logistics tab I only get "RefundingForKSP11 1x". I ham running 1.12.5 KSP, with MKS installed via CKAN, as well as some other mods including USILS. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

https://imgur.com/a/qd8GyaK

[JamesonKerbal]

9 hours ago, RuParker said:

RefundingForKSP11 1x

Do you have KSP-Recall installed? That's an addon which gets around part refund costs that would send you broke if you recovered a vehicle that came back home with more mined materials than you launched it with. The "Refunding" resource is the hack used in that add-on to overcome the negative pricing of other resources in KSP 1.11+

You should find other resources being added to Planetary Logistics as the various Kontainers fill up. Note that they'll deposit to Planetary Logistics when inventory exceeds about ¾, then they'll pull from Planetary Logistics when the inventory drops below a similar amount (like ¼ or so).

I don't know how the Refunding resource is represented in game, but if it's something that shows up like other resources make sure to fill it back up (and turn off Planetary Warehouse on the kontainer)  before you recover the vehicle, otherwise you're in for an expensive return home.

I gave up on trying to make money by mining (I found the KSP Recall add-on and read up on how it hacks around the recovered vehicle cost bug and decided not to try living with that kind of hack) and just used Ground Construction which lets me build things on the ground. MKS has orbital shipyards but they will only build things in orbit — I do have some designs for flying or rocket powered descent vehicles to drop rovers from orbit but I figured once I was in space it was cheaper to direct my industrial efforts towards Minmus. I raise cash by carefully selecting the missions that will pay me to launch the rockets I was going to launch anyway: "oh nice, you're paying me to create a new station around Minmus? I'll stick some mining equipment on it and repurpose it as a mining base after satisfying the contract terms!"

Edited March 14, 2023 by JamesonKerbal

[openperspective]

Was an answer to this issue ever found?

On 1/17/2021 at 8:33 AM, RoverDude said:

It makes sure if you do not have space for something, it does not stop the entire conversion process, essentially dumping any resource that does not fit.

 

Yeah, I have to dig in and see what's up.

 

[JamesonKerbal]

1 hour ago, openperspective said:

Was an answer to this issue ever found?

Yes, it's a bug introduced in KSP 1.11 and still present in 1.12 where KSP is calculating the value of a recovered craft based on its "PREFAB" price, which does terrible things for parts that have been modified using TweakScale, or parts that now have more resources in them than the PREFAB data says they should.

The "fix" was a terrible hack packaged into KSP-Recall introducing a new resource called "refunding" which has negative value. The catch is that MKS is a resource based mod that handles resource logistics beyond just transferring stuff between docked tanks, so MKS in combination with KSP-Recall will just cause you endless problems.

If you want to fund your space program by mining resources and then recovering the filled mining trucks, you need to stick with KSP 1.10 (or earlier).

I addressed the issue by avoiding launching or recovering vehicles involved in resource gathering, and raising funds by carefully selecting missions.

Edited March 16, 2023 by JamesonKerbal

[Zmeya]

3 hours ago, JamesonKerbal said:

Yes, it's a bug introduced in KSP 1.11 and still present in 1.12 where KSP is calculating the value of a recovered craft based on its "PREFAB" price, which does terrible things for parts that have been modified using TweakScale, or parts that now have more resources in them than the PREFAB data says they should.

The "fix" was a terrible hack packaged into KSP-Recall introducing a new resource called "refunding" which has negative value. The catch is that MKS is a resource based mod that handles resource logistics beyond just transferring stuff between docked tanks, so MKS in combination with KSP-Recall will just cause you endless problems.

If you want to fund your space program by mining resources and then recovering the filled mining trucks, you need to stick with KSP 1.10 (or earlier).

I addressed the issue by avoiding launching or recovering vehicles involved in resource gathering, and raising funds by carefully selecting missions.

Odd, I've been able to get funds from recovering resources from MKS/USI in 1.11 and 1.12, the mod I've had problems with is WBI, specifically it's containers.