[1.8+] Kerbal Health 1.6.8 (2024-01-22)

[garwel]

7 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Just wondering what your rough plan is for the max rate a Kerbal max HP will decrease? Eg unshielded with a NERV engine at other end of ship.

Do you plan for a way to get max HP back, or will it be limited to just the kerbal 5x level increase amounts as set in the config? It initially feels a bit weird to get HP back after radiation poisoning, but hey, they're little green men and what would I know of their biology. Happy with either choice you make for the mod.

Like I said, in most situations, cosmic radiation is the biggest concern, not radioactive parts. A single NERV engine without shielding only adds 250 bananas/day, which is 40 times less than cosmic radiation in interplanetary space. The latter is 10,000 bananas/day, i.e. 0.025% of max HP decrease per day. Your kerbal will lose all their health after 4000 days (about 9 kerbal years). Adding one NERV engine will decrease this to 3902 days. On the other hand, there are some very powerful engines and reactors (e.g. in KSP-IE) that produce as much as 84,000 bananas/day thereby killing an unshielded kerbal in a year.

Leveling only gives you a 10% bonus, so 5-level kerbals have 150 HP while 0-level have 100. And it doesn't erase the result of radiation (e.g., a if a 0-level kerbal has lost 20% of max HP to radiation and reached level 1, her max HP will increase from 80 to 88, not to 110). I may add an option to cure radiation poisoning for a hefty sum at KSC or even do something about it while on a mission, but I haven't really decided how to do it. Anyway it's going to be really hard and probably have diminishing returns. I also think I may add some special conditions to give certain kerbals increased max HP, but it's a secret yet.

Edited September 27, 2017 by garwel

[cyberKerb]

8 hours ago, garwel said:

Like I said, in most situations, cosmic radiation is the biggest concern, not radioactive parts. A single NERV engine without shielding only adds 250 bananas/day, which is 40 times less than cosmic radiation in interplanetary space. The latter is 10,000 bananas/day, i.e. 0.025% of max HP decrease per day. Your kerbal will lose all their health after 4000 days (about 9 kerbal years). Adding one NERV engine will decrease this to 3902 days. On the other hand, there are some very powerful engines and reactors (e.g. in KSP-IE) that produce as much as 84,000 bananas/day thereby killing an unshielded kerbal in a year.

Leveling only gives you a 10% bonus, so 5-level kerbals have 150 HP while 0-level have 100. And it doesn't erase the result of radiation (e.g., a if a 0-level kerbal has lost 20% of max HP to radiation and reached level 1, her max HP will increase from 80 to 88, not to 110). I may add an option to cure radiation poisoning for a hefty sum at KSC or even do something about it while on a mission, but I haven't really decided how to do it. Anyway it's going to be really hard and probably have diminishing returns. I also think I may add some special conditions to give certain kerbals increased max HP, but it's a secret yet.

Just installed the pre-release tonight and will have more to say after some playing around. On radiation poisoning, I'd kinda expect a hefty penalty as you mentioned - just an idea. (BTW, I wouldn't be adverse to a banana logo somewhere in this mod with that kind of explanation  )

How about a 1 year "no fly" timer (+1 year for any subsequent 'cure') that makes the irradiated Kerbal unavailable for that period until cured. It's both a soft and hard fix at the same time, all while still being nice and substantial. Yes, someone could bypass it if they really wanted that specific Kerbal with timewarp, but that would mean having nothing else on that would interrupt the "healing". It would also play havoc with launch / transfer windows waiting for the Kerbal, when it would be far easier to just hire someone else.

Not sure about doing something while on mission - need more time to play around with ideas.   I look forward to more secrets revealed  in the future

EDIT: Initial take on the updated Health monitor screen:

•  Needs to be a bit wider with that button on the screen now. I'm getting names peaking off the window to the left.
•  Something is up with the Kerbal list where I think the scroll bar isn't working correctly and it only showing my the 4 I have assigned and the first 5 from the astronaut center. (I have 27 available in this test world.) Hah! - just worked out the bar on the right doesn't work, but you can drag the list itself up and down, but it'll keep resetting to the top 9.
•  The Health Details screen is really handy!
•  I've got a Kerbal standing outside the VAB on EVA with 1000% exposure. <redacted> Saw the new wiki - all good here.. The chg/day still seems fine at -34.5, so I'm guessing it just a decimal point issue in the display... or me not understanding that metric yet...  or are you taking into account how many NERV rockets the VAB contains  
•  Same Kerbal on EVA has -5 for 'crowded'. I take it a full EVA suit counts as a crowded vessel? Or is that metric meant to be skipped on EVA?

Could detecting a breathable atmosphere be used to reduce radiation on appropriate planets? Nevermind! Just saw the difference between on surface and EVA in space AND rechecked your previous post   Wow! as you said 10,000 bananas/day while in orbit vs 50/day on surface

More testing to come tomorrow.

Edited September 27, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

2 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Just installed the pre-release tonight and will have more to say after some playing around. On radiation poisoning, I'd kinda expect a hefty penalty as you mentioned - just an idea. (BTW, I wouldn't be adverse to a banana logo somewhere in this mod with that kind of explanation  )

How about a 1 year "no fly" timer (+1 year for any subsequent 'cure') that makes the irradiated Kerbal unavailable for that period until cured. It's both a soft and hard fix at the same time, all while still being nice and substantial. Yes, someone could bypass it if they really wanted that specific Kerbal with timewarp, but that would mean having nothing else on that would interrupt the "healing". It would also play havoc with launch / transfer windows waiting for the Kerbal, when it would be far easier to just hire someone else.

Not sure about doing something while on mission - need more time to play around with ideas.   I look forward to more secrets revealed  in the future

EDIT: Initial take on the updated Health monitor screen:

•  Needs to be a bit wider with that button on the screen now. I'm getting names peaking off the window to the left.
•  Something is up with the Kerbal list where I think the scroll bar isn't working correctly and it only showing my the 4 I have assigned and the first 5 from the astronaut center. (I have 27 available in this test world.) Hah! - just worked out the bar on the right doesn't work, but you can drag the list itself up and down, but it'll keep resetting to the top 9.
•  The Health Details screen is really handy!
•  I've got a Kerbal standing outside the VAB on EVA with 1000% exposure. <redacted> Saw the new wiki - all good here.. The chg/day still seems fine at -34.5, so I'm guessing it just a decimal point issue in the display... or me not understanding that metric yet...  or are you taking into account how many NERV rockets the VAB contains  
•  Same Kerbal on EVA has -5 for 'crowded'. I take it a full EVA suit counts as a crowded vessel? Or is that metric meant to be skipped on EVA?

Could detecting a breathable atmosphere be used to reduce radiation on appropriate planets? Nevermind! Just saw the difference between on surface and EVA in space AND rechecked your previous post   Wow! as you said 10,000 bananas/day while in orbit vs 50/day on surface

More testing to come tomorrow.

I like the idea of grounding a kerbal to cure radiation. It would also work in Science and Sandbox modes where there are no funds.

Thanks for the testing.

- The Health Monitor UI issues is a result of my attempt to use scrollable lists when you have more than 12 kerbals. Apparently, it doesn't work as intended, so I've already removed that code. I guess I'll use paged view instead, as in Space Age.

- I think you shouldn't receive Crowded malus when on EVA (after all, this is when the astronauts can stretch their legs for once), so I'll disable it in the future. Thanks for pointing it out.

- The maths and values of radiation in different locations will change a bit; the new system is explained in the wiki. But the general scheme remains: atmosphere is in fact a crucial factor in stopping ionizing radiation. Its lower layers block the bulk of cosmic rays. I tried to keep all the figures realistic.

Edited September 27, 2017 by garwel

[cyberKerb]

9 hours ago, garwel said:

I like the idea of grounding a kerbal to cure radiation. It would also work in Science and Sandbox modes where there are no funds.

Thanks for the testing.

- The Health Monitor UI issues is a result of my attempt to use scrollable lists when you have more than 12 kerbals. Apparently, it doesn't work as intended, so I've already removed that code. I guess I'll use paged view instead, as in Space Age.

- I think you shouldn't receive Crowded malus when on EVA (after all, this is when the astronauts can stretch their legs for once), so I'll disable it in the future. Thanks for pointing it out.

- The maths and values of radiation in different locations will change a bit; the new system is explained in the wiki. But the general scheme remains: atmosphere is in fact a crucial factor in stopping ionizing radiation. Its lower layers block the bulk of cosmic rays. I tried to keep all the figures realistic.

You had the scrollable window working with the Game Difficulty setting if that helps?

19 hours ago, garwel said:

Leveling only gives you a 10% bonus, so 5-level kerbals have 150 HP while 0-level have 100. And it doesn't erase the result of radiation (e.g., a if a 0-level kerbal has lost 20% of max HP to radiation and reached level 1, her max HP will increase from 80 to 88, not to 110). I may add an option to cure radiation poisoning for a hefty sum at KSC or even do something about it while on a mission, but I haven't really decided how to do it. Anyway it's going to be really hard and probably have diminishing returns. I also think I may add some special conditions to give certain kerbals increased max HP, but it's a secret yet.

So I continued testing and started a new game with the pre-release installed:

Difficulty settings:

The HP per level in the General setting really seems to convey in a 10HP increase per level, not the 10% that you mentioned in the above post. Is the 10% increase only when radiation in brought into the picture of has the calculations changed? If so, it might need a redo of the text to indicate that leveling is a percentage increase and not a set HP amount.

Did the EVA health factor get changed when the game difficulty setting got updated? Or have you tuned it down due to radiation being a new factor?
What I'm seeing in a new game: Easy:0 Normal:-5 Moderate:-10 Hard:-10

A few of the radiation settings seem to have a few extra decimal points that probably aren't needed.
Eg Radiation Effect - allows a number from 0 to 200, listed as 180.00%
Landed Coefficient - allows from 0 / 0.1 to 19.9 / 20.0 but displayed with 3 decimal points (eg 19.800 %

In game

I like how the radiation is different on the moons vs the planets - it gives a good amount of varibility and make you consider this during mission planning. I figure you'll end up having to explain the difference between moon and planet a few times to people who don't read the wiki in the future. I only base that on my first thoughts while playing. I first assumed that I should see a difference for in space high vs low until I saw the wiki, them all was good. 

Could there be an option to have a bit of shielding from closed cargo bays / occluded areas when compared to EVA? I ask only in that I like to have Kerbal in command chairs for missions sometimes, but would like the option to stick the chair somewhere with a bit more shielding than just a straight EVA value. Trips to Moho are going to be interesting with this mod. Rads are ~286,000/day on EVA, phew!

Lastly, I'm seeing a good amount of regular ''hitching' whenever I timewarp. I'm assuming that's more to do with the debug mode being on and I see lots of data being written to the log than the anything to do with the mod itself.

At the moment, I'm trying to work out what is necessary to build a Duna mission and still have the Kerbal alive at the end of it. So mission planning for me for the reset of the week. Thanks again for the mod - I like this LS alternative that doesn't revolve around 'food' & Oxygen.  

[garwel]

Hey, thanks for the testing!

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

You had the scrollable window working with the Game Difficulty setting if that helps?

Settings are processed by KSP automatically. Anyway, I've already almost finished paging, so the long kerbal roster problem is considered solved.

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

The HP per level in the General setting really seems to convey in a 10HP increase per level, not the 10% that you mentioned in the above post. Is the 10% increase only when radiation in brought into the picture of has the calculations changed? If so, it might need a redo of the text to indicate that leveling is a percentage increase and not a set HP amount.

I meant default settings where you have base HP of 100, so 10 HP is 10%. I'll clarify it in the descriptions if it's confusing.

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

Did the EVA health factor get changed when the game difficulty setting got updated? Or have you tuned it down due to radiation being a new factor?
What I'm seeing in a new game: Easy:0 Normal:-5 Moderate:-10 Hard:-10

Yes, I nerfed EVA factor. Having 10x radiation is already bad enough, EVAs don't really affect health so badly IRL, and most LS mods deal with this issue too.

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

A few of the radiation settings seem to have a few extra decimal points that probably aren't needed.
Eg Radiation Effect - allows a number from 0 to 200, listed as 180.00%
Landed Coefficient - allows from 0 / 0.1 to 19.9 / 20.0 but displayed with 3 decimal points (eg 19.800 %

This is (or at least it used to be) a longtime stock issue. I'll try tinkering with it to see if it's been resolved.

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

In game

I like how the radiation is different on the moons vs the planets - it gives a good amount of varibility and make you consider this during mission planning. I figure you'll end up having to explain the difference between moon and planet a few times to people who don't read the wiki in the future. I only base that on my first thoughts while playing. I first assumed that I should see a difference for in space high vs low until I saw the wiki, them all was good. 

I may complicate things even more in the future by adding individual planet/moon modifiers. E.g., Eve should have much better atmospheric protection than Duna; Dres and Eeloo probably have weak magnetic fields, etc. It will be adjustable with CFGs.

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

Could there be an option to have a bit of shielding from closed cargo bays / occluded areas when compared to EVA? I ask only in that I like to have Kerbal in command chairs for missions sometimes, but would like the option to stick the chair somewhere with a bit more shielding than just a straight EVA value. Trips to Moho are going to be interesting with this mod. Rads are ~286,000/day on EVA, phew!

I'm not sure how hard it is to code this. But anyway, it's not very realistic to have an astronaut travel to another planet while sitting outdoors the whole trip.

10 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

Lastly, I'm seeing a good amount of regular ''hitching' whenever I timewarp. I'm assuming that's more to do with the debug mode being on and I see lots of data being written to the log than the anything to do with the mod itself.

At the moment, I'm trying to work out what is necessary to build a Duna mission and still have the Kerbal alive at the end of it. So mission planning for me for the reset of the week. Thanks again for the mod - I like this LS alternative that doesn't revolve around 'food' & Oxygen.  

I do hope that the hiccups are due to logging, but in truth the mod requires a good deal of optimization. Will have to wait until after 1.0.

Besides, I'm going to publish a new version soon, with many improvements.

[cyberKerb]

1 hour ago, garwel said:

I may complicate things even more in the future by adding individual planet/moon modifiers. E.g., Eve should have much better atmospheric protection than Duna; Dres and Eeloo probably have weak magnetic fields, etc. It will be adjustable with CFGs.

Awesome! You got any plans to make Dres 'interesting'?  Specific biomes that makes Kerbals sick? Or is that one of the secrets? LOL!

I'm not sure how hard it is to code this. But anyway, it's not very realistic to have an astronaut travel to another planet while sitting outdoors the whole trip.

They wouldn't be outdoors 'all' the time.  I actually take my inspiration from Kuzzter / Kerbfleet and Cupcake with chairs in cargo bays. They've done awesome work that just makes me want to play around like that.

It's like making your own IVA... but without the modelling experience.

Besides, I'm going to publish a new version soon, with many improvements.

Awesome - look forward to it!

[garwel]

A new pre-release of Kerbal Health 1.0 is ready. Main changes: added resource shielding and a new resource called RadiationShielding, changed radiation on atmospheric bodies, fixed a few issues (old and new). Again, I'm waiting for your feedback, ideas, complaints, acknowledgements, and checks. The detailed change log and download link are here.

[cyberKerb]

@garwel got another question regarding sickness. I'm finding the Kerbals get cured rather quickly (mostly 1-7days) and was playing with the setings to get it more to my likling.

How often is the 10% chance to cure check performed? Is it only once per day or every game 'tick'? I ask because if you are checking 20 times per day at 10%, there would be a cumulative chance of around 87% to be cured in the same day. Yes, each check is 10%, but it's like flipping a coin (50%) 7 times - it's never guaranteed, but it's 99.6% of hitting heads at least once.

Also, I havn't got a screenshot to check, but I think the setting 'Avg sickness duration' setting neds a different name as I think it might be counter-intuitive. If you set it to 10 days, it's a 10% chance to be cured per check instance. I set it to 20 days thinking it'll make for longer sickness durations, but wouldn't that make it a 20% chance to be cured for each check, resulting is a shorter sickness duration?

Edited September 30, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

7 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

@garwel got another question regarding sickness. I'm finding the Kerbals get cured rather quickly (mostly 1-7days) and was playing with the setings to get it more to my likling.

How often is the 10% chance to cure check performed? Is it only once per day or every game 'tick'? I ask because if you are checking 20 times per day at 10%, there would be a cumulative chance of around 87% to be cured in the same day. Yes, each check is 10%, but it's like flipping a coin (50%) 7 times - it's never guaranteed, but it's 99.6% of hitting heads at least once.

Also, I havn't got a screenshot to check, but I think the setting 'Avg sickness duration' setting neds a different name as I think it might be counter-intuitive. If you set it to 10 days, it's a 10% chance to be cured per check instance. I set it to 20 days thinking it'll make for longer sickness durations, but wouldn't that make it a 20% chance to be cured for each check, resulting is a shorter sickness duration?

All events are checked at random intervals, on average once a day. The chance of curing a disease without treatment at each check is 1/SicknessDuration, so 20 days duration gives a 5% chance per day.

However, in addition to "self-curing" a sickness can be cured by Scientists and Medics. Effectiveness of such treatment is determined by the TreatmentDuration setting. If the sick kerbal is at KSC, all other available kerbals with appropriate traits will try to heal him. It means that if you have more Scientists and/or Medics in KSC, the actual sickness duration will be much lower (depending also on the number of sick kerbals). You may try setting TreatmentDuration to 0 and see if it improves things Perhaps I'll change the algorithm or default values to make sickness more probable.

[cyberKerb]

21 minutes ago, garwel said:

All events are checked at random intervals, on average once a day. The chance of curing a disease without treatment at each check is 1/SicknessDuration, so 20 days duration gives a 5% chance per day.

Ah yes - I'm an idiot. 1/20 doesn't equal 20% duh!

21 minutes ago, garwel said:

However, in addition to "self-curing" a sickness can be cured by Scientists and Medics. Effectiveness of such treatment is determined by the TreatmentDuration setting. If the sick kerbal is at KSC, all other available kerbals with appropriate traits will try to heal him. It means that if you have more Scientists and/or Medics in KSC, the actual sickness duration will be much lower (depending also on the number of sick kerbals). You may try setting TreatmentDuration to 0 and see if it improves things Perhaps I'll change the algorithm or default values to make sickness more probable.

I'll have to recheck, but maybe I just had a lot of scientists in my testing that was causing it to feel rather short. Most Kerbals wouldn't loose more than 5-15 HP while sick.

I think the algorithm / sickness occurance was fine for default. I remember someone mentioning they were already getting too sick, so I wouldn't want to impact that for people playing with defaults.

I was just trying to find the settings right for what i was after. I'll try 20days and 0 treatment duration to disable medic cures and see what the resulting durations are like. I'm trying for something tht allow them to be sick closer to 10 days  (with some variability towards the low side) so It make me have to think about having a SciLab nearby for long missions, might also have to enforce the Kerbals clear the quarentine/incubation period before setting out

Edited September 30, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

I was just trying to find the settings right for what i was after. I'll try 20days and 0 treatment duration to disable medic cures and see what the resulting durations are like. I'm trying for something tht allow them to be sick closer to 10 days  (with some variability towards the low side) so It make me have to think about having a SciLab nearby for long missions, might also have to enforce the Kerbals clear the quarentine/incubation period before setting out

Try increasing sickness duration and incubation; perhaps also the interval between sicknesses and immunity period, for balancing. It will make the sickness more of a real threat. I'm going to do it for the full version, but I'd be grateful if you tested it out and told me how it works.

[cyberKerb]

22 hours ago, garwel said:

Try increasing sickness duration and incubation; perhaps also the interval between sicknesses and immunity period, for balancing. It will make the sickness more of a real threat. I'm going to do it for the full version, but I'd be grateful if you tested it out and told me how it works.

Did a little bit of testing today:

On the Health Details page:
To make this testing easier, could we get the length of time (in days) for the duration a Kerbal has been Sick eg: Conditions: Sick (0.58 days)
I can't get the detail page to show information on the various health modifiers for a Kerbals at the KSC. It only shows a minimal set of information First 2 lien and last two line of the full set. Because of this, I can't see what is effecting the Kerbals in the KSC. (I have notify of Events in KSC turned on)

I think something is up when new Kerbal get added to the available roster. I'm using MKS which adds additional Kerbal types to the game, so this might be adding some extra spanners into the work...  From the error, it seems to just be about handling new Kerbals in the to Hire list: Jenbus wasn't a hired Kerbal when this error appeared. I tried turning debug logging on and wasn't able to get the error to reappear while it was turned on.

[LOG 20:49:30.370] [KerbalHealth] Registering Jenbus Kerman with NaN health.
[ERR 20:49:30.372] Exception handling event onKerbalCreated in class KerbalHealthScenario:System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthStatus.GetMaxHP (.ProtoCrewMember pcm) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthStatus.get_MaxHP () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthStatus..ctor (System.String name) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthList.Add (System.String name, Double health) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthScenario.OnKerbalAdded (.ProtoCrewMember pcm) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventData`1[ProtoCrewMember].Fire (.ProtoCrewMember data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

50 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

On the Health Details page:
To make this testing easier, could we get the length of time (in days) for the duration a Kerbal has been Sick eg: Conditions: Sick (0.58 days)
I can't get the detail page to show information on the various health modifiers for a Kerbals at the KSC. It only shows a minimal set of information First 2 lien and last two line of the full set. Because of this, I can't see what is effecting the Kerbals in the KSC. (I have notify of Events in KSC turned on)

Factors are only displayed for loaded kerbals, i.e. those on the active vessel or within physics range. This is because most factors are cached for unloaded kerbals and are applied in bulk. Showing only some factors and not the others would confuse the player, so I'm not showing them at all. Kerbals in KSC may only experience KSC and Sick factors (the latter, naturally, if they are sick). As to the timer, it would require changing the events system and kerbal structure, which I don't want to do unless it's really necessary.

50 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

I think something is up when new Kerbal get added to the available roster. I'm using MKS which adds additional Kerbal types to the game, so this might be adding some extra spanners into the work...  From the error, it seems to just be about handling new Kerbals in the to Hire list: Jenbus wasn't a hired Kerbal when this error appeared. I tried turning debug logging on and wasn't able to get the error to reappear while it was turned on.

[LOG 20:49:30.370] [KerbalHealth] Registering Jenbus Kerman with NaN health.
[ERR 20:49:30.372] Exception handling event onKerbalCreated in class KerbalHealthScenario:System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthStatus.GetMaxHP (.ProtoCrewMember pcm) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthStatus.get_MaxHP () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthStatus..ctor (System.String name) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthList.Add (System.String name, Double health) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at KerbalHealth.KerbalHealthScenario.OnKerbalAdded (.ProtoCrewMember pcm) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventData`1[ProtoCrewMember].Fire (.ProtoCrewMember data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

 

Can you tell me how it happened? Did you hire Jenbus Kerman, was he added as a Tourist by a contract or did he just appear in the roster of available kerbals? If you can attach a longer piece of log (10-20 lines above this and a few after), it'd be easier to identify the cause.

[cyberKerb]

17 minutes ago, garwel said:

Factors are only displayed for loaded kerbals, i.e. those on the active vessel or within physics range. This is because most factors are cached for unloaded kerbals and are applied in bulk. Showing only some factors and not the others would confuse the player, so I'm not showing them at all. Kerbals in KSC may only experience KSC and Sick factors (the latter, naturally, if they are sick). As to the timer, it would require changing the events system and kerbal structure, which I don't want to do unless it's really necessary.

Makes sense. Thanks for the info I'll keep testing later tonight.

17 minutes ago, garwel said:

Can you tell me how it happened? Did you hire Jenbus Kerman, was he added as a Tourist by a contract or did he just appear in the roster of available kerbals? If you can attach a longer piece of log (10-20 lines above this and a few after), it'd be easier to identify the cause.

I was warping with the Health window open and was trying to work out what was causing some lag / unability to click on the tabs at the top of the Health monitor. I figured I had too many Kerbals and 'fired about a dozen or so (I had just under 3 pages of Kerbals on the Health Monitor) to get it down to just 1 page. That's when I noticed the issue in the console. I figure it was the stock game making new Kerbal available to Hire or something. I'll try to replicate with the debugging option on and supply a full log file. 

@garwel - got a new log file here. I fired an engineer and hired a new applicant and got the error. This time had debug on for you.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by wile1411

[cyberKerb]

On 9/30/2017 at 9:04 PM, garwel said:

Try increasing sickness duration and incubation; perhaps also the interval between sicknesses and immunity period, for balancing. It will make the sickness more of a real threat. I'm going to do it for the full version, but I'd be grateful if you tested it out and told me how it works.

Okies - I turned Treated Duration to 0 and promptly found that I had Kerbals regularly running out of HP due to sickness tested over 300 days (I had death turned off and set sickness to -10 to offset the +5 at KSC & give a simulated -5 in the field).

So my lesson learnt here is scientists/medics are REALLY important to be on long missions, if they are not available, then a sci-lab would HAVE to be within 20 days worth of travel of the crew location in case of an emergency. Longest I saw out of commission was 18 days past 0HP, after which they dusted themselves off and returned to work after recovering past 25%

When I turned Treatment back on to 4, with only 1 scientist, they rarely get lower than 60% This is only testing with warping at KSC.

Moving onto my Duna mission test:

I found that my Kerbal crew hovered around 60 to 80 HP with the three cupolas. I had 2x 0lvl, 1x 1lvl & 1x 2lvl to give some variety on the numbers. It was nice that I didn't really have to worry too much around health running out as they were well shielded from rads (+10/day). But I did have to keep it in the back of my mind to watch out for accidents and sicknesses.

Mission length was 2.5yrs.
Kerbals MaxHP only dropped by 0.05
Had 2 accidents & 12-15 panic attacks (lost count)
No one got sick - is that only possible at KSC? I must of not had any infected crew. I think I'll turn my incubation timer up to 15. but reduce the contagion period to ~4 so it become more likely that someone with a sniffle makes it onto a mission by accident.

Some notes I made:
Checking the VAB Health report: Can the ScienceLabs 0.5x Sickness for 2 Kerbs be applied to the Health Report or would that make that report calc too complicated? When I add a new lab it seems to only count towards slightly reducing crowdedness, no impact HP reduction due to sickness.

On the way to Duna, the highest warp setting is giving me issues. When using the Highest warp mode, the game disabled most health modules on my vessel. I had two Gigantor XL Solar Arrays and 24K of EC, which should of been plenty as there is +24 EC/s over the modules usage EC. (parts used that contributed to KH: SciLab, Hitchhiker, 2xMk1CrewCabin, 3xCupola) I tried adding 4 Gigantors and had same result in that most modules disabled (lab, Hickhiker and 2x cupolas, but what gets disabled seems random as it's not consistent) until it found an eequilibrium. Using the VAB data to add it all up, I should have on 10.9EC usage for the KH modules and over 80EC generation in Solar Power. I tried a 60EC  in nukular reactor and 4x3EC NUK generators and got the same result where the highest warp disables most KH modules. Radiator panels cooling the reactor never lost power or deactivated.

Other than ActionGroups - did you have any plans to a craft summary or a way to help with finding which KH modules have disabled, other than clicky-clicking through all parts to find the culprit?

Could the alert for accidents include the amount of HP that was lost in the event?

Also on accidents, in the same way that the Kerbal 'Courage' stat is already used for the panic attack event, is there any plan to utilize 'Stupidity' to modify the frequency / severity of accidents for those klutzs you bring of missions?

Bob had an... er..  'issue' on the way to Duna...  Panic attacks still have a condition of 'OK' when they are in progress. In fact, nothing on the Health Details screen indicates what the issue was (other than the static profile screen). The msg alert doesn't have information on when the panic alert started that that it occured. Is there a way to know when it will end, or is it just a "wait it out" moment only?

Curious if the RadShield resource is planed to deplete for any reason? ie if it's water, then dumping the contaminated stuff overboard? Or if it will remain static forever and is just a weight that aids in reducing radiation damage?

In the Health Monitor: On the "time left" column, when a Kerbal is healing due to marginal health benefits, it would be useful to put a cap on the length of time you want to show - mainly due to how small the decimal point increase gets. At one point Val have a 56335y 345days. I only sugegst as I figure there's a limit to how much I'd care about how long with will take to heal fully when I know I can't do that while on mission.

If not available in this mod, could SpaceAge track number of accidents / panic attacks on a mission?

Edited October 2, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

Thank you for the thorough testing!

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

So my lesson learnt here is scientists/medics are REALLY important to be on long missions, if they are not available, then a sci-lab would HAVE to be within 20 days worth of travel of the crew location in case of an emergency. Longest I saw out of commission was 18 days past 0HP, after which they dusted themselves off and returned to work after recovering past 25%

When I turned Treatment back on to 4, with only 1 scientist, they rarely get lower than 60% This is only testing with warping at KSC.

When on a mission, kerbals can only get sick if one of their crewmates is sick or infected (in incubation period). At KSC, they have contact with the general kerbal public, so they can get sick just so (defined by the setting for sickness incidence). But it seems that they get well way too soon and the chance of taking a sick kerbal aboard is really small. I'll rebalance it by increasing sickness and incubation period durations and, probably, lowering the daily HP drain for sickness.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Checking the VAB Health report: Can the ScienceLabs 0.5x Sickness for 2 Kerbs be applied to the Health Report or would that make that report calc too complicated? When I add a new lab it seems to only count towards slightly reducing crowdedness, no impact HP reduction due to sickness.

I'll check it, but remember that the Science Lab only affects kerbals inside it (not the whole ship like most other parts) and the Sickness factor only shows if you enable it in the Health Report.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

On the way to Duna, the highest warp setting is giving me issues. When using the Highest warp mode, disable most health modules on my vessel. I have two Gigantor XL Solar Arrays and 24K of EC, which should of been plenty as there is +24 EC/s over the modules usage EC. (parts uses that contributed to KH: SciLab, Hitchhiker, 2xMk1CrewCabin, 3xCupola) I tried adding 4 Gigantors and had same result in that most modules disabled (lab, Hickhiker and 2x cupolas, but what gets disabled seems random as it's not consistent) until it found an eequilibrium. Using the VAB data to add it all up, I should have on 10.9EC usage for the KH modules and over 80EC generation in Solar Power. I tried a 60EC  in nukular reactor and 4x3EC NUK generators and got the same result where the highest warp disables most KH modules. Radiator panels cooling the reactor never lost power or deactivated.

It must be the stock issue with EC consumption on high time warp. Try downloading Dynamic Battery Storage by @Nertea, which claims to solve these problems

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Other than ActionGroups - did you have any plans to a craft summary or a way to help with finding which KH modules have disabled, other than clicky-clicking through all parts to find the culprit?

Actually, the onscreen notification about a health module being disabled tells you the part name, doesn't it? It may be disappearing too fast, then I may increase the time it's displayed.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Could the alert for accidents include the amount of HP that was lost in the event?

I wanted to do it from the start, but the generic system for event processing that I use doesn't allow it. I'm sure I'll eventually get to it, but not just yet.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Also on accidents, in the same way that the Kerbal 'Courage' stat is already used for the panic attack event, is there any plan to utilize 'Stupidity' to modify the frequency / severity of accidents for those klutzs you bring of missions?

I like this idea! Will do in a future version.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Bob had an... er..  'issue' on the way to Duna...  Panic attacks still have a condition of 'OK' when they are in progress. In fact, nothing on the Health Details screen indicates what the issue was (other than the static profile screen). The msg alert doesn't have information on when the panic alert started that that it occured. Is there a way to know when it will end, or is it just a "wait it out" moment only?

I've added a timestamp in messages (shown via the message system) in the next release, so you'll see when an event happened. As for showing when the panic attack ends, I didn't include it because, in real life, such things are not controlled or known in advance. Panic attacks' effects are managed by the stock system (in fact, the game treats panicking kerbals as unconscious), so I don't show any additional conditions. Maybe will do it in the future, but they may not be 100% accurate.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Curious if the RadShield resource is planed to deplete for any reason? ie if it's water, then dumping the contaminated stuff overboard? Or if it will remain static forever and is just a weight that aids in reducing radiation damage?

No, it's not depleting, unless you use a mod that consumes it (such as TAC-LS). Doing it while on time warp or for unloaded vessels would be either very inaccurate or bug-prone (remember the EC issues). Unfortunately, KSP is very limited in what you can do in such cases.  

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

In the Health Monitor: On the "time left" column, when a Kerbal is healing due to marginal health benefits, it would be useful to put a cap on the length of time you want to show - mainly due to how small the decimal point increase gets. At one point Val have a 56335y 345days. I only sugegst as I figure there's a limit to how much I'd care about how long with will take to heal fully when I know I can't do that while on mission.

I'll limit the time displayed to 10 years in the next release, thanks.

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

If not available in this mod, could SpaceAge track number of accidents / panic attacks on a mission?

I plan to add an API to Kerbal Health in the future; then Space Age and other mods will be able to access all these stats.

[cyberKerb]

2 hours ago, garwel said:

I'll check it, but remember that the Science Lab only affects kerbals inside it (not the whole ship like most other parts) and the Sickness factor only shows if you enable it in the Health Report.

Hmmm, yeah and I'm gunna guess the stock API doesn't let you easily see where the specific Kerbals are... For planning though, it'd be nice to see what effect of adding more labs does.. same for when adding Scientists and/or medics to the ship. Even if you just pick the 'first two' Kerbals from the list, I'd be able to see they're covered in a sickness event.

2 hours ago, garwel said:

It must be the stock issue with EC consumption on high time warp. Try downloading Dynamic Battery Storage by @Nertea, which claims to solve these problems

I checked my mods installed and I already had DBS installed while testing this - so nup, that mod doesn't help. If that's the case then it might be time a "known issues" log on the OP as ppl might get confused about health modules disabling when using high warp. For whatever reason, it just ignores what EC I do have (24,000) as well as any EC I could of generated per tick. For whatever reason, other EC using modules aren't affected (eg radiators) and stay active.

2 hours ago, garwel said:

Actually, the onscreen notification about a health module being disabled tells you the part name, doesn't it? It may be disappearing too fast, then I may increase the time it's displayed.

Yep, it does mention the name, but with 3 cupolas all with the same name - I've still go through a bit of clicking to find the issue. Same with any part there is multiple copies of and this mod encourages that.

2 hours ago, garwel said:

I've added a timestamp in messages (shown via the message system) in the next release, so you'll see when an event happened. As for showing when the panic attack ends, I didn't include it because, in real life, such things are not controlled or known in advance. Panic attacks' effects are managed by the stock system (in fact, the game treats panicking kerbals as unconscious), so I don't show any additional conditions. Maybe will do it in the future, but they may not be 100% accurate.

Cool on the timestamp - reason I asked was I missed a few really short panic attacks and couldn't work out why I got dropped out of warp. Others that were long panic attacks where I missed the message - the Kerbal in question wasn't one of those that had a viewable portrait and again confused me as to what was going on. Could it be just a change in status from 'OK' to 'Catatonic' and change back to OK when the unconsciences ends? Thanks for info though. 

On that - I can't think of a reason to have it, but do you think there could be a need out there to have a setting that disables the drop out of warp on event?

2 hours ago, garwel said:

No, it's not depleting, unless you use a mod that consumes it (such as TAC-LS). Doing it while on time warp or for unloaded vessels would be either very inaccurate or bug-prone (remember the EC issues). Unfortunately, KSP is very limited in what you can do in such cases.  

Just curious on that. As a resource, I kind of expect to do something with it. (definitely not saying it needs it or suggesting anything here - just voicing first impressions.)

I feel the general parts "Shield rating" might be a little bit too effective at reducing radiation exposure from any source. eg a single 2x2 panel blocks >80% exposure. 1 2,5mHeatshield blocks >94% exposure. It just seems that if I build ships to have Rad exposure to 0.0% with a few extra parts, some I would normally use anyway, I'm wondering if I would ever really consider it something to worry about in a gameplay sense other than when doing EVA?
I guess I need to do some longer tests. Yay - more KSP gameplay for me. 
Examples: 
1 x Mk1 command pod (Needed 11 Shielding to be 0.0% exposure)
2 x M2x2 Structual panels with no RadShield on any parts
Total 600kg added over command pod  = 0.0% exposure for 1 kerbal
---
1 x Mk1-2 command pod (Needed 22.9 Shielding to be 0.0% exposure)
2 x M2x2 Structual panels 
1 x M1x1 Structual panels 
+ 468kg of RadShield to above parts
Total 1143kg added over command pod  = 0.0% exposure for 3 kerbals (~380kg/Kerbal)
---
2 x Hickhikers (Needed 44 Shielding to be 0.0% exposure)
2 x M2x2 Structual panels 
6 x M1x1 Structual panels 
+ 1154kg of RadShield to above parts
Total 2204kg added over 2HH = 0.0% exposure for 8 kerbals (~275kg/Kerbal)

Just musing to myself here: I know how to make a resource unavailable in the VAB so I can't just add it easily through the use of isTweakable = false

I might do this and then make a resource converter MM file to allow RadShield to be 'made' from something like Rock or a resource often used in MKS or maybe even just a heap of Ore. Not sure what at the moment. That way, I can choose to either add more parts for better shielding, or risk the exposure in the short term, then add shielding later for longer term bases through in-situ resource conversion.

Edited October 2, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

3 hours ago, wile1411 said:

Hmmm, yeah and I'm gunna guess the stock API doesn't let you easily see where the specific Kerbals are... For planning though, it'd be nice to see what effect of adding more labs does.. same for when adding Scientists and/or medics to the ship. Even if you just pick the 'first two' Kerbals from the list, I'd be able to see they're covered in a sickness event.

I'll investigate it further and will try to fix it before the release.

Quote

I checked my mods installed and I already had DBS installed while testing this - so nup, that mod doesn't help. If that's the case then it might be time a "known issues" log on the OP as ppl might get confused about health modules disabling when using high warp. For whatever reason, it just ignores what EC I do have (24,000) as well as any EC I could of generated per tick. For whatever reason, other EC using modules aren't affected (eg radiators) and stay active.

Are you sure you still had a lot of EC? 'Cause the way health modules work is they request EC (via the stock system) and if they are given less than requested, they shut down. On very high time warp, EC levels tend to fluctuate heavily and losing all EC even for a tick is enough to disable the health modules. Perhaps, I can rewrite the code so that they simply skip that tick and try again in the next one. Can't be sure it will fix this issue, but probably it's a good change anyway.

Quote

On that - I can't think of a reason to have it, but do you think there could be a need out there to have a setting that disables the drop out of warp on event?

It's easy and I can add it (if someone wants to use it).

Quote

Just curious on that. As a resource, I kind of expect to do something with it. (definitely not saying it needs it or suggesting anything here - just voicing first impressions.)

There are some resources that you can't really manipulate: think Ablator or IntakeAir. The reason to have it as a resource is because it has mass, cost and its amount can be changed. I'm not going to make it in-situ produceable (it's just unrealistic), but you can always make some water, which also gives shielding, if much less efficiently.

Quote

I feel the general parts "Shield rating" might be a little bit too effective at reducing radiation exposure from any source. eg a single 2x2 panel blocks >80% exposure. 1 2,5mHeatshield blocks >94% exposure. It just seems that if I build ships to have Rad exposure to 0.0% with a few extra parts, some I would normally use anyway, I'm wondering if I would ever really consider it something to worry about in a gameplay sense other than when doing EVA?

The good news (or the bad news maybe) is that I'll make things harder for the release. All parts will have half as much shielding as they do in the 2nd pre-release; RadiationShielding will also be half as effective. You'll be able to adjust this value in-game.

Edited October 2, 2017 by garwel

[cyberKerb]

 

8 minutes ago, garwel said:

Are you sure you still had a lot of EC? 'Cause the way health modules work is they request EC (via the stock system) and if they are given less than requested, they shut down. On very high time warp, EC levels tend to fluctuate heavily and losing all EC even for a tick is enough to disable the health modules. Perhaps, I can rewrite the code so that they simply skip that tick and try again in the next one. Can't be sure it will fix this issue, but probably it's a good change anyway.

Positive. There was 24K EC before warp and then immediately after, modules start dropping like flies. Anyway you can see how much it's requesting on highwarp? Is there something in the timing of 'when' its requesting the EC? maybe before the solar/RTG generated amount is taken into account?

 

 

 

[Nertea]

8 hours ago, garwel said:

It must be the stock issue with EC consumption on high time warp. Try downloading Dynamic Battery Storage by @Nertea, which claims to solve these problems

Quote

DBS can only solve problems with modules it "knows" about. I don't know if your mod is subclassed off stock modules like generators and converters (in which case DBS will work) or custom modules. If the latter case DBS won't be able to understand when consumption is happening unfortunately.

[garwel]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

DBS can only solve problems with modules it "knows" about. I don't know if your mod is subclassed off stock modules like generators and converters (in which case DBS will work) or custom modules. If the latter case DBS won't be able to understand when consumption is happening unfortunately.

It implements IResourceConsumer, but not any of its subclasses.

[cyberKerb]

11 hours ago, Nertea said:

DBS can only solve problems with modules it "knows" about. I don't know if your mod is subclassed off stock modules like generators and converters (in which case DBS will work) or custom modules. If the latter case DBS won't be able to understand when consumption is happening unfortunately.

@Nertea Curious if it might be possible to have a cfg file (lists module names) to allow the addition of custom modules so DBS could support modules other than those it's hardcoded? Provided the custom modules were close enough in functionality, it would allow for easy expandability given the custom modules met the required resources & modules to be processed correctly.
eg:
ModuleDeployableSolarPanel:KopernicusSolarPanel
ModuleActiveRadiator:ModuleKerbalHealth

Having said the above suggestion, I don't know if the ModuleKerbalHealth has even got the same hooks as ModuleActiveRadiator. I only put those as they both consume EC. The problem might be that the ActiveRadiator has the property rate = float, while ModuleKerbalHealth  doesn't. It has both properties resourceConsumption & resourceConsumptionPerKerbal that is then used to calculate the EC consumption rate behind the scenes. Would it work if there was a rate property that DBS could hit?

I remember there is a mod I read recently (maybe Graphatron or some other logging tool) that does something like that. It asked the user to add additional modules / module names with their paired stock equivalent to a file that it would read on game load. This would allow for those modules to be utilised in the (I forget it's name) mod as it was assumed to follow the same rules as the paired stock module. Basically it captured a list of things to look for, as by default it doesn't know about those other mods modules.

I can add that as a requested github issue if you want the reminder of the idea - otherwise if not in your planned scope - no prob.   I figure you'll probably want to go the same way RealBattery did with adding specifics into the DBS through PRs, rather than some open ended mess of an idea like this  

Edited October 3, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

Kerbal Health 1.0.0

Kerbal Health is finally out of beta and considered stable (hopefully).

This is a major update, so you should visit all your crewed vessels after updating to refresh mod data. And better backup your persistent file, just in case!

• Added: Radiation effects that permanently reduce kerbals' maximum HP (see readme or wiki for more details)
• Added: RadiationShielding resource that can be added to most crew pods and some other parts for additional protection
• Added: Detailed view in Health Monitor displays more stats including individual factors for loaded kerbals
• Added: Support for kerbals freezing with DeepFreeze
• Added: Support for radioactive and shielding parts in stock, MKS, Deadly Reentry, Kerbal Atomics, KSP-IE, SpaceY, etc.
• Added: Difficulty presets (Hard difficulty recommended)
• Added: Health Monitor splits into pages when you have many kerbals
• Changed: EC consumption of all health modules reduced by 50%
• Changed: EVA factor now reduces health by 10 HP/day (down from 30)
• Changed: Sicknesses are now more rare, but they last longer and have longer incubation
• Changed: Marginal health change renamed to Recuperation (for positive) and Decay (for negative)
• Changed: Notifications are no longer shown for events with kerbals not on missions (prevents message spam)
• Fixed: Kerbals on EVA no longer feel crowdedness
• Fixed: Health Monitor didn't update correctly when kerbals were added or removed
• Fixed: Incorrect calculation of science lab and some other parts' effects in Health Report
• Fixed: Renaming kerbals shouldn't reset their stats now (hopefully)
• Some small UI improvements, code cleanup, and performance tweaks
• Compiled for KSP 1.3.1

Download here

Edited October 6, 2017 by garwel

[cyberKerb]

59 minutes ago, garwel said:

Kerbal Health 1.0.0

Kerbal Health is finally out of beta and considered stable (hopefully).

• Compiled for KSP 1.3.1

Download here

Thanks for the update! - is it possible to get a final backward build for KSP 1.3?

Edited October 6, 2017 by wile1411

[garwel]

Ok, here is the backport of v1.0.0 for KSP 1.3.0: https://github.com/GarwelGarwel/KerbalHealth/releases/tag/v1.0.0-pre.3

All future versions will target KSP 1.3.1.